Certain AI files don't import into my InDesign file.

[roberte89093827]

I'm using the latest versions of both Illustrator and InDesign. I have one AI file, though, that isn't importing into my ID document. It merely has text in place of its little icon, which appears pixelated in the image box when I import the file. There's information about Save As and Options in that text, but it's cut off and I can't make it out. It's almost as if it were some out-of-date EPS format or some such, but the Illustrator file is no different from any other AI file, as far as I can tell. I created it a few weeks ago.

This as usual is a problem with an obvious answer, I'm sure. But I haven't been able to find it.

Rob

[JonathanArias]

Can you open the files in illustrator? if so, can you go file save as and save it to the latest version of illustrator?

Next, can you try to place it in to indesign and show a screenshot?

can you also try to typeset the part that is text in indesign and with the file open on illustrator, select just the art and past into indesign, if you can do this, what happens?

screenshots help

[BobLevine]

That file was saved without PDF compatibility. Do a file save as and add that.

[roberte89093827]

Thanks, Bob.

I knew it had to be something like that, but I don't see this option in my Save As dialogue. (And am surprised I somehow changed it to begin with, since PDF-compatibility would seem to be the default.)

[Dov Isaacs · Accepted solution]

Actually, InDesign doesn't place Illustrator files; it places PDF files. Thus, the only .AI files that can be successfully placed into InDesign if the following three are true based on the options specified when first saving the Illustrator file:

(1)    The Version specified is Illustrator 10 or newer.

(2)    The Create PDF Compatible File option is selected.

(3)     The option for including ICC profiles is selected.

Otherwise, the .AI cannot be placed successfully into an InDesign document! Although the third consideration above doesn't affect whether the .AI file can be placed into an InDesign document, if the ICC profiles are not in the PDF-compatible .AI file, not only are the ICC profiles missing, but the objects are specified as DeviceCMYK or DeviceRGB, very likely resulting in color anomalies in your InDesign document for the placed content and resulting final output.

Furthermore, since it is possible to open such PDF-compatible .AI files in Acrobat or other PDF file manipulation products, it is possible that the PDF portion may be modified without modifying the source Illustrator content. In other words, it is possible that you lose synchronization between the Illustrator content versus the PDF content, noting that what gets placed in InDesign is the PDF content, not the Illustrator source content which is stored in the PDF file as private data (PieceInfo).

Another issue to be aware of is that when saving PDF-compatible .AI files, raster imagery is saved as if when explicitly saving PDF, the image settings are for ZIP-compressed, non-downsampled images. This is non-lossy, but could result in unnecessarily large files.

That having been said, I most strongly recommend that Illustrator files not be placed into InDesign. Rather, a more reliable workflow practice is to use the Save as Copy and select PDF. For the options, choose the Adobe Preset labelled PDF/X-4:2008 which actually uses the PDF/X-4:2010 standard. You may modify the detailed settings to meet your needs (especially image downsampling and format), but as-is, they will normally provided very high quality graphics. Place the resultant PDF file into your InDesign document!

          - Dov

Updated on July 19, 2019

[roberte89093827]

There we go!

And when I did this, it answered one remaining question, i.e., how to get a transparent background. Which, it turns out, is an option when I import.

Thanks so much to all three of you for prompt replies.

Rob

[roberte89093827]

Somehow I marked Jonathon's answer as correct rather than Dov's, which was actually the correct one. Tech challenges continue.

[Steve Werner]

I fixed the Correct Answer.

[jsavage77]

   So, correct me if I'm wrong here because this doesn't make sense to me, but if I want to use INDD as a part of my workflow, there's no point in linking to assetts in order to save on the AI file size, because in order to import AI files into INDD, I have to save a PDF compatable AI file, which basically imbeds everything anyway ??  Is this something that will be fixed in an upcoming release or we just have to deal with it?

[Steve Werner]

I seriously doubt it will change. You'll just need to adapt to the reality.

[Dov Isaacs]

Adapt to the reality. InDesign can place PDF content. It doesn't claim to place Illustrator objects and there are no plans to do so!

          - Dov

[Ddub89]

Question on your workflow best practice here.  The benefit of placing .AI files is you can click on them in InDesign and then edit directly in .AI, save, and poof, update links in ID and your edits are reflected.  Saving a copy in PDF adds another step to the workflow.  Is the quality that much better to justify the added step?  I do without the PDF step and the quality already looks great.

[rob day]

If placing PDF/X-4 really does produce superior output, I wish Dov would provide a concrete example—I must be missing something. When I check the PDF/X-4 export of an InDesign document containing an .AI and a PDF/X-4 version of the same file, Acrobat’s Object Inspector shows no benefit with the PDF/X-4 version. In fact a default PDF/X-4 out of Illustrator might down sample and compress placed images. See this thread, in my example the PDF/X-4 version fails InDesign‘s preflight:

Re: Adobe Indesign CC 2019 / Apple MacOS Mojave 10.14.5

[Dov Isaacs]

(1)     I have updated my response (July 19, 2019) above with some additional considerations that should answer your question(s) and or give you more to consider.

(2)     What InDesign Preflight error are you getting? You mentioned that you were getting an error but I seemed to miss what error that was. Depending upon what that error was and the criteria that were specified for the InDesign Preflight, the error may be a false positive, irrelevant, and/or an InDesign bug – I have no way of knowing which. If you can provide a small, simple sample, I can follow up on that.

          - Dov

[rob day]

Sure. Here I’ve placed the same Illustrator file saved with the default PDF/X-4 preset—which allows compression and downsampling—and with the a default .AI save as.

In InDesign my Preflight Resolution threshold is set to 300ppi, and I've scaled both versions to 200%. Preflight picks up the PDF/X-4 as below 300ppi, which is expected because the default PDF/X-4 out of Illustrator sampled the image down to 300ppi, and then the 200% InDesign scale lowered the Effective res to 150ppi.

The AI version's Effective res also got reduced, but remained over 300ppi because the AI save left the Actual res of its placed image alone—it is 854ppi so its Effective res on the ID page is 426ppi.

The preflight error is confirmed when I export the InDesign page as PDF/X-4 with Downsampling turned off.

[Dov Isaacs]

I think that it is fairly obvious that if you downsample to 300dpi when creating PDF from Illustrator and that you blow up the placed PDF to 200% in InDesign, that the “error” that you encounter in InDesign Preflight is to be expected. If you want/need PDF to be magnified when placed in InDesign, whether that PDF comes from Illustrator or any other application, you either don't downsample when creating that PDF or use downsampling that fits the parameters of your needs for repurposing.

          - Dov

[rob day]

OK, but when you are recommending PDF/X-4, your not explaining that one would have to turn off compression and downsampling. And you still haven‘t shown me a concrete example of how PDF/X-4 does something better than the AI version. If I go back and save the Illustrator file as X4 with compression off and re-export the ID page, there is no difference in the the two versions—the image resolution, color space, and profile are the same.

Imagine the nightmare of a workflow with hundreds of Illustrator infographics duplicated and placed as X-4, and Edit Original no longer works. And, if there’s an edit, the designer (or group of designers) have to fuss over making sure the save to PDF/X-4 is always with compression turned off.

[Dov Isaacs]

Rob,

Let's try this again.

If you are using PDF/X-4, the only reason to turn off compression and/or downsampling in “save a copy as PDF” in Illustrator would be if (1) you have raster images in the Illustrator document and (2) if the resolution of the images after downsampling and/or highest quality JPEG compression (only used on photo-like raster images and not on raster images that contain much constant color and vector/text like content) would yield degradation of the imagery placed into InDesign given a need to enlarge such placed PDF within the document. The normal 300/425 dpi downsampling should not be a problem for 1:1 placements. But one is free to do what they want here in terms of using custom PDF export settings.

In terms of using .AI, you personally are obviously very disciplined and know what you are doing. But if you get .AI files in general from other sources and you don't know its provenance, you don't necessarily know if (1) the PDF compatibility option was specified and (2) whether ICC color mangement profiles were included in saved file unless you try to open the .AI file in Acrobat Pro. Not everyone is that skilled and/or disciplined.

In terms of the convenience of using Edit Original, if you indeed use that type of workflow, yes using the .AI placement is convenient (as well as if one needs to edit raster images with Photoshop), but for many of us, if we need to edit placed content, we usually have a more complex workflow of creating a new version of the artwork from the old one before doing the edit – editing an original has its risks! That pretty much precludes “edit original” in that case.

Bottom line is that if you are very disciplined and know exactly what you are doing, how to properly create a .AI file (or to check .AI files coming in from the great beyond), and don't subsequently edit such .AI files in Acrobat Pro, please feel free to place .AI. I don't feel personally insulted or hurt if you do so.

However, when you encounter as many customers complaining about “issues” of placing .AI files (nothing appears or colors are off, etc.), the PDF/X-4 route is certainly a very reliable route to recommend.

          - Dov

[rob day]

and (2) whether ICC color mangement profiles were included

This seems to be yet another potential problem with a PDF/X-4 Save As out of Illustrator. You seem to be a color profile absolutist, and a PDF/X-4 saved out of illustrator is not going to assign a CMYK profile to the native InDesign fills and strokes when the document color mode is CMYK—document CMYK colors export as DeviceCMYK with PDF/X.

Not a problem in a disciplined workflow where one would be sure to avoid conflicting CMYK profiles and match up document CMYK assignments, but with PDF/X-4 you do have to watch out for document CMYK profile mismatches as well as image compression.

So this CMYK Illustrator file with a placed RGB image has a newprint CMYK profile assigned. If I export a PDF/X-4 and check one of the CMYK fills Acrobat tells me it is DeviceCMYK, while the RGB image has the correct profile assigned. The CMYK Output Intent is correct, but it will not be used when i place the PDF.

If I'm not paying attention to the ID assignment, and place the newsprint PDF/X in a GRACol Coated document, the intended color appearance changes—the CMYK values are unchanged because the PDF’s CMYK objects are DeviceCMYK:

[Dov Isaacs]

InDesign is to be “fixed” to properly deal with Output Intent profiles coming in from placed PDF. One of the biggest issues is that CMYK to C'M'Y'K' conversions can be very problematic. We will probably look at some combination of Device Link profiles and/or constraints on pure colorant options for such conversions. Note that the same problem occurs when placing ICC CMYK profile tagged content and trying to produce output. We currently have lousy CMYK to C'M'Y'K' options if you place ICC CMYK profile tagged PDF (or .AI) content into InDesign.

We agree that is a problem, but is isn't only related to placing PDF/X files, it is also the case for placing PDF/A files with RGB output intents as well as .AI files. Yes the PDF/X case is worse, but again we have a bug filed against that I am fighting to get fixed internally.

          - Dov

[rob day]

InDesign is to be “fixed” to properly deal with Output Intent profiles coming in from placed PDF.

So does that mean you would also remove the Preserve Numbers (Ignore Linked Profiles) policy?

[Dov Isaacs]

No, we would not remove that, but rather supply additional, more intelligent options for color space mismatches! 

          - Dov

[Jongware]

https://forums.adobe.com/people/Dov+Isaacs  wrote

That having been said, I most strongly recommend that Illustrator files not be placed into InDesign. Rather, a more reliable workflow practice is ...

...

https://forums.adobe.com/people/Dov+Isaacs  wrote

Adapt to the reality. InDesign can place PDF content. It doesn't claim to place Illustrator objects and there are no plans to do so!

"You can import Illustrator graphics into InDesign in their native (.ai) format." (The Official InDesign Online Help: Import files into InDesign from other applications)

Nothing there on "more" (or less) "reliable" workflows, or anything else than having more options with layers when saved as PDF. Nothing on the 'compatibility mode' where the "native (.ai) format" does not really really mean "the native format called .ai" but actually it means "uh, sorry, make that 'including the PDF Preview' – no wait, just save that PDF and forget about the 'native' .ai part."

Dov, some time real soon you need to update that Help page...

[Dov Isaacs]

@Theunis de Jong,

FWIW, I am not part of the InDesign development or support team. I have no input into what goes onto their help pages.

          - Dov

[Scott Falkner]

Not entirely true, Dov. Illustrator 8 and earlier files can be placed in InDesign. In fact AI8 is my favourite format for logos.