Making alternate layouts in one file for both print and web?!?!?!

[heatherm22623790]

How do I take a 6x9 print file (using inches) and add two iPad alternate layouts (using pixels) to the same file?

[Steve Werner]

Units are a document setting. You can't mix units in an InDesign document.

You can pick one unit, and you could enter values in the other unit in a field, but they will be converted to the units set in the document.

[heatherm22623790]

Makes complete sense. Now that I've switched my 6x9 inches doc to pixels, when I try and create my two alternate iPad layouts, they still say inches. I think I'm losing my marbles.

[Erica Gamet]

When you create the alternate layouts, you can use another unit of measurments (indicating px for pixels on the new iPad layouts). You can always right-click on the rulers and switch them to pixels (which switches the entire document's rulers)...but it's easy enough to do.

[heatherm22623790]

Now when I change my rulers to pixels AND chose to create an iPad alternate layout, the measurements in the box STILL say 6x9 inches. Maybe my indesign has a bug? Or is a setting I have wrong somewhere?

[BobLevine]

Can we back up for a moment? You say you’re making an iPad layout? What exactly are you creating here? EPUB? PDF? Something else?

[heatherm22623790]

It's an indesign assessment, I've been working with indesign since it's beginning, however, I'm a magazine designer and I have never had to work with the interactive pdf aspect. Here is what the assessment will be testing me on:

- Convert existing print form to interactive form (I assume this simply means, change my workspace to interactive, change my rulers to pixels, and my color mode to rgb)

- Using my original 6x9 print file create two alternate layouts for the iPad.

What I am having the biggest trouble with is converting the 6x9 to the iPad, I have watched videos and googled, so it seems it should be as easy as going to pages > alternate layout > change size. But since I am starting with the 6 x 9 print file, it's either staying at inches or won't give me the option of mobile presets.

I'm sure I am missing some incredibly basic part and that's all it is. HELP!!!!

[BobLevine]

The assignment, IMO, is ridiculous. There is not “size” for viewing PDFs. They scale to fit the viewport.

There is zero need to change the measurements for this. Don’t believe me? Export the current 6x9 file and open it a PDF reader on the iPad. Adding interactive form fields does not require any specific document size or color mode.

Further, interactive PDF on mobile devices, including the iPad is nothing short of a crapshoot. Many features don’t work or don’t work properly.

I’d be interested in knowing what types of interactivity are included in this assignment because it seems to me that whomever provided it is lacking full understanding of how interactive PDF works.

Finally, I’m sticking with my original answer. If for some reason you really want pixels (which will do nothing do the underlying document) then create a new file using the “save as” command.

I’m not trying to give you a hard time, but something just doesn’t seem right here.

[heatherm22623790]

Just sent you a message directly.

[BobLevine]

Keep the conversation here, please. Others will benefit from it.

[heatherm22623790]

How do I take my print file, and create two new iPad alternate layouts, while keeping the print file in the same document? I am making a test file, 6x9 print, inches, and tried converting the intent of the document to mobile so when I then create the two alternate layouts, the dialog box gives me the option to choose iPad sizes, but that isn't working. It either is changing the size of my 6x9 document, or in the alternate layout dialoge box it isn't changing to the mobile size options.

[rob day]

How do I take my print file, and create two new iPad alternate layouts

You never answered Bob's question. You'll have to export the document in order to view it on an iPad, what's the format going to be?

[heatherm22623790]

It's going to be an interactive pdf.

[rob day]

InDesign let's you set your rulers to pixel units and you shouldn't confuse the ruler unit preference with resolution—an InDesign document has no resolution, its pages are vector objects. As an InDesign output measurement 1pixel = 1/72", and as Bob noted the units you choose won't change the the document's dimensions when you export to PDF. You can right-click the rulers at anytime to change the preference. Most mobile browsers will fit the PDF page width into the viewport and the user can zoom as needed.

The color you use also doesn't matter. When you export to Interactive PDF all color is converted via Color Management to sRGB. If you are more comfortable using the CMYK model you don't have to convert your swatches, it will happen automatically on export.

[heatherm22623790]

Totally know those facts (they make sense) it's the changing the size from the original print file, to creating two alternate layouts for the iPad. How would you do that?

[BobLevine]

BTW, I think a little history lesson is in order here.

Alternate layouts were introduces as a way of creating different fixed sizes for different mobile devices as well as having horizontal and vertical orientations for Digital Publishing Suite folios. Sadly, this feature never worked properly and with DPS having been deprecated never got any additional attention.

It was never intended to be used to have print and digital formats in the same INDD file.

I understand you need this job, but honestly, this entire test is a pathetic. The only thing it demonstrates is a complete lack of knowledge on the part of whoever wrote it.

[Erica Gamet]

I know it wasn't intended for that, but I use it for mixed print and digital purposes all the time. I've even set up clients' files with a print version, PDF version, and ePub version in the same document. The amount of time saved in maintaining one document versus three is amazing. Also, I use it when creating a set of docs that contain the same elements, in varying sizes and orientations (like an event campaign). I find that Adobe often creates something that is intended for one type of workflow (and that they never extoll the virtues of that in any other circumstance), but that it can often be worked into an entirely different type of workflow as well.

[heatherm22623790]

Erica, you do this all in InDesign? The multiple file types? Print, ePub and pdf? How do you set that up?

[Erica Gamet]

Yes...using Alternate Layouts. One for print, one for PDF (which may mimic the print version closely, or may switch orientations, etc.) and one for ePub. I use different Preflight Profiles for each layout (which you can switch between while preflighting) and export separately (obviously). When it comes to the ePub layout, a few extra steps are required (I'm talking reflowable ePub BTW)...you will need to assign everything in that layout to the Articles panel, then export that layout using the Articles option...since ePub normally wants to export the entire document.

[rob day]

which may mimic the print version closely, or may switch orientations, etc.

Keep in mind the OP is only exporting to PDF and print. With PDF what value would there be in switching orientations and how would multiple orientation versions be delivered in the browser? There's no way to predict how the user has turned the device.

You could go to the trouble of changing the page dimensions from 6"x9"(432 x 648px) to 768x1024px and make adjustments for the larger page size and slightly different aspect ratio, but in the end the browser is going to display them pretty much the same way with the widths fit to the screen.

[BobLevine]

I agree w/Rob. In fact, quite some time ago (I think it was iOS4) Apple removed the ability to lock the orientation of the device. There was a huge uproar over it. Nothing more annoying than having things jump all over the place when you tilt the device just a little too far.

Multiple orientations for PDFs is not possible through any normal method and I’ve never run across anyone willing to invest the time or money to create multiple PDFs for different devices.

[Erica Gamet]

I think the problem is that we are having different conversations! Haha. I also thought your comment of, "There is zero reason to do this," meant there was never a reason to mix the different output types in a single document (using Alt Layouts). Also, the OP specifically asked me if I DID put such items together in a single INDD file...which I explained. Not in response to the original post...I also was unable to grok what was needed by that assessment test.

I'm not talking about having a PDF that changes in response to orienting the tablet differently...the situation I was referring to involved a portrait-oriented print layout (going to a high res PDF), a landscape-oriented PDF (going to a retina PDF output preset), and a reflowable ePub layout...all using alternate layouts. All within the same, easy-to-maintain InDesign document.

[BobLevine]

The zero reason was in regard to this silly assignment.

[Erica Gamet]

In complete agreement there!

[rob day]

I've even set up clients' files with a print version, PDF version

So in this case, where there's a 6x9 print document that will be exported to an Interactive PDF, what changes would you make to the alternate version that would make a difference when the document is opened in a mobile browser?