Handling Spacing With Titles and Infrequent Subtitles

[1ndivisible]

I have what should be a simple layout, but I'm finding it surprisingly hard to find a simple solution.

I am working on a book of poems. Each poem has a title and body and some have a subtitle that needs to sit below the title. Each poem is broken into paragraphs.

This gives me three paragraph styles:

- Poem Title

- Poem Subtitle

- Poem Body

I need to fulfil the following:

- The body sits two lines below the title.

- If there is a subtitle, it sits on the line below the title.

- If there is a subtitle, the body sits two lines below the subtitle.

The problem is that if I add space below to the title, it pushes the subtitle down two lines when the subtitle follows it. If I add space above the body, every paragraph is pushed down by two lines.

I know I can work around it by creating extra paragraph styles - for example a special style for titles that are followed by subtitles or a special style for the first paragraph of each poem body, but this feels overcomplicated.

Does inDesign offer a better solution for situations like this?

[BobLevine]

You already know the solution. More paragraph styles.

It’s not all that difficult. Just copy the ones that need to be tweaked a bit and change the spacing.

[Obi-wan Kenobi]

Title => 1 Space after

Subtitle => 1 Space after

Body => 1 Space Before

(^/) 

[1ndivisible]

Obi-wan Kenobi Almost, but there needs to be no space between title and subtitle:–'If there is a subtitle, it sits on the line below the title.'–this is what makes things difficult.

[Obi-wan Kenobi]

Is this what you mean?

(^/)

[Obi-wan Kenobi]

Title => 1 Space after

Subtitle => 1 Space after + Leading = 0pt

Body => 1 Space Before

(^/)

[1ndivisible]

Obi-wan Kenobi​ Yes. That is what I mean.

[Obi-wan Kenobi · Accepted solution]

The way to do it is obviously and so simply given in post#10! 

(^/)

[1ndivisible]

BobLevine With all due respect, it isn't about it being difficult, it's about the document being robust. I'm from a web background and CSS handles situations like this elegantly. You just create a rule that applies to X if the previous item was Y. This means that if the content of the document changes you don't end up with a broken layout.

In my example, removing a Subtitle breaks the layout.

Although in my example I kept it simple, I'm actually working on a book of poems where there are multiple different widths depending on the character width of the poem. Using more paragraph styles means having to multiply the paragraph styles across every layout meaning it's a question of (potentially) many more paragraph styles.

[BobLevine]

I’m well above average when it comes to CSS and HTML and InDesign styles are not CSS.

I’m sorry you don’t like it, but you’ll be a lot happier if you stop thinking about how you’d do it on the web. In the time this conversation took, you’d have had those styles created.

[1ndivisible]

@BobLevine

you’ll be a lot happier if you stop thinking about how you’d do it on the web

I'm surprised more than anything. It seems so strange that a company like Adobe that have a deep knowledge of web-technologies have left inDesign with such a backward system of doing things. I know the answer will be 'legacy', but it's still surprising.

In the time this conversation took, you’d have had those styles created.

Like I said it isn't about creating the styles, but how robust the document is. How resistant to changes I can make it. The way inDesign does things leaves very brittle documents.

[amaarora]

Hi,

I can give tell you a way with which i achieved this in a hurry. You will need to however tweak the style definitions to suit your need.

I used Baseline Grid in InDesign and created 2 Paragraph styles..one (p2) that writes 2 lines below the above line and one(p1) that writes 1 line below the above line. I then used p1 for title and subtitle and p2 for the body.

Below are some screenshots that can help you set this up: (Fyi: please set baseline grids and leading as per your needs, but it is easy)

1. Enable the show baseline grid option.

2. Determine the viewing threshold of the grid from the preferences

3. Set your zoom level equal to or greater than this threshold to view the grid

4. Make two styles that help you align the title and subtitle(p1) and one for the body(p2)

4. Use the styles in your document as needed.

You will need to set the "Align to Baseline grid" option in both the styles. Your baseline grids would be spaced at equi-distance separated by a distance you specify in the preferences.

When the leading is such that it crosses the baseline grid, it will snap to the next baseline grid.

With careful and simple calculations you can easily achieve something like:

Do take into account character size before setting up the baseline grids. Please see how baseline grid works with leading and you will be good to go

Use grids in Adobe InDesign

Apply leading in InDesign

I am sure other people here will have better and easier solutions though.

-Aman

[1ndivisible]

amaarora​ Thanks, but that is simply using multiple paragraph styles. As I said in my question I'm looking for an alternative.

[amaarora]

Hi,

I second what Bob said. using Paragraph styles is the best way to go.

-Aman

[Willi Adelberger]

I think the base line grid could be a different solution.

I work with text frame based base line grid. Chapter title and and Subtititle are not aligned, text is aligned, For chapter pages I apply a text frame with a deeper baseline grid. So I have starting test on the same line.

[1ndivisible]

@Willi Adelberger Thanks for the suggestion. My problem with that approach is that it assumes that the text will always sit on that page which is inflexible. If some text is added before it and it is bumped onto the next page then the layout breaks.