Wrong colors on monitor

[joachimandr]

Hi!

I have a problem with PS showing colors differently  than they appear in OS viewer programs and Rendering programme like Cinema 4D.

My workaround so far has been to activate proof colors: monitor, wich seems to show the colors correctly. But this is not an ideal working situation... See attached file: Left shows image in OS viewer, right side is what i get when opening file in PS. I have reasently moved from mac to windows, and have never had this problem before. I now have windows 10, I have reset and reinstalled PS with no effect. I now use Europe General Purpose 3 color settings. I have a monitor: BenQ 27" SW2700PT, set to standard colors. Please help

[c.pfaffenbichler · Accepted solution]

Photoshop is Color Managed, if you compare it to applications that are not then the problems are not Adobe’s making.

If an image does not have an Embedded Colour Profile Photoshop will use its RGB (or CMYK) Working Space to interpret the image.

[joachimandr]

Thank you for the answer! It seams that the image shows up more or less  the same way in all other programs than Photoshop (Adobe). So it would be nice to set PS up so it at least gets close to displaying the image as would in e.g. the web browser, which in this case is the main target. As seen in the attached file the difference is quite huge.

[c.pfaffenbichler]

I disagree; the other applications disregarding Colour Management would not seem to be a good reason to expect Photoshop to do the same.

If those other applications disregard the embedded profile (hopefully you do embed the color profile in the images) and simply pass the RGB values along to the display that does not provide you with a meaningful preview of how the images may appear on other computers and screens.

As for which browsers and other applications are in fact Colour Managed (not necessarily by default) I could not tell you but you could do some research.

Color managed browsers

Re: Color Management

How to export for non-color-managing browsers?

[joachimandr]

Im not really into color management simply as I have found the theme quite complcated  and I have not been faced with it as a big issue before. I checked, and I save with color profile. To emhasize my issue: I now rendered an image from Cinema 4D which exports jpeg to srgb as default. When I open this image in PS with general purpose srgb settings it appears just as different... I have worked with illustrations for years and never faced anything like this before. I suspect I might have something to do with Windows 10 OS settings...? I have worked with OSX up to resently.

[c.pfaffenbichler]

Europe General Purpose 3

would Preserve Embedded Profiles and the RGB Working Space is sRGB anyway so unless the screen profile is damaged Photoshop displays the colors as correctly as your set-up allows.

Im not really into color management simply as I have found the theme quite complcated  and I have not been faced with it as a big issue before.

Now that you have gone Windows you may want to rethink that.

[Test Screen Name]

It's an interesting problem because I think there are no widely used colour managed video players. Indeed most computers couldn't manage it. ots not like designing photos for controlled printing or managed display.

If you have to design for non colour managed environments start by lowering your expectations. Then, use sRGB as your working space, which is designed to be very approximately the same as the average cheap monitor. NOT your monitor profile, which just gets it right on your computer, nobody else's. Finally, on no account buy a wide gamut monitor.

[D Fosse]

joachimandr  wrote

Im not really into color management simply as I have found the theme quite complcated  and I have not been faced with it as a big issue before.

You didn't have a wide gamut monitor before. Now that you do, you have to get into it.

A wide gamut monitor can only be used in a fully color managed environment. It has to be properly calibrated and profiled, so that those color managed applications have a valid display profile to work with. Applications without color management will never under any circumstances display correctly.

The other option is to sell it and get a standard gamut monitor. 

[richardj21724418]

https://forums.adobe.com/people/D+Fosse  wrote

You didn't have a wide gamut monitor before. Now that you do, you have to get into it.

A wide gamut monitor can only be used in a fully color managed environment. It has to be properly calibrated and profiled, so that those color managed applications have a valid display profile to work with. Applications without color management will never under any circumstances display correctly.

The other option is to sell it and get a standard gamut monitor. 

Ouch, that's a little harsh!

There is another option - the SW2700PT has an sRGB mode that emulates the colour space of a standard sRGB monitor.  You could use that, then, when you have a bit more confidence and understanding of the issues involved, move to the native gamut.  It's only factory calibrated but it's better than where you are now.

In theory it's now possible to hardware calibrate and profile the SW2700PT to sRGB space by selecting the sRGB primaries option in Palette Master Element (only available if the monitor is fitted with more recent firmware).  However, at the moment I wouldn't bother.  With the current version of PME (1.2.4) I don't think the calibration is performed using the correct sRGB gamma curve.  Worse, the profile PME  creates is mapped to the native gamut, not the calibrated sRGB.  This means colour managed applications appear de-saturated.  It makes me question whether Palette Master Element creates the profiles BEFORE monitor calibration, which would clearly be wrong.

[D Fosse]

richardj21724418  wrote

There is another option - the SW2700PT has an sRGB mode that emulates the colour space of a standard sRGB monitor

Yeah, but what a waste of good money!

OK, maybe that was a little harsh. It's not the customers' fault, but I'm getting a bit fed up with vendors selling these units without informing - warning! -  the customers about the implications. All they talk about is "vivid colors" - and who doesn't want that? Sales is all that matters.

What these units should have, is a huge sticker right up there on the screen, in bold red letters: Warning: this monitor will only work as expected in a fully color managed environment.

God knows that would make a lot more sense than the ones already there, with all the "dynamic contrast range" nonsense, millions of colors, and whatnot.

It makes me question whether Palette Master Element creates the profiles BEFORE monitor calibration

If that's really the case, you could question a lot more than that....like whether their engineers should really be in another business...

[richardj21724418]

https://forums.adobe.com/people/D+Fosse  wrote

richardj21724418   wrote

It makes me question whether Palette Master Element creates the profiles BEFORE monitor calibration

If that's really the case, you could question a lot more than that....like whether their engineers should really be in another business...

lol, don't get me started there. It's seriously hard work getting BenQ to begin to accept they have a problem. A problem that would be immediately obvious to any of us simply putting an image up on the screen.  But they won't do that. To them, if Palette Master Element reports a good calibration then it must be correct.  Yes, the calibration may be good, but what about the profile?

It feels like BenQ marketing decided they could muscle in on the space occupied by Eizo, without having the engineering knowledge and support resources to back it up.  At least they're still communicating with me, so perhaps it will get fixed.

[D Fosse]

There is actually a workaround until then - a bit clumsy, but it'll work. Use Palette Master to calibrate the unit - and then use something like ArgyllCMS/Dispcal just to make the profile, without any calibration. It has that option.

This is only worthwhile because, after all, Palette Master does a hardware calibration to the unit's internal LUT. That's a good thing, you don't want any messing about with the video card. But that also means there's nothing stopping you from profiling it independently later.

Some years ago I ran an NEC PA that way, as I couldn't get the Spectraview software to work properly (long story). So I just calibrated visually to get a good white and black point, and then used Argyll for the profile only. It worked very well.

Now I use Eizo Coloredges. It hurt my bank account for a while, but once I got over that I never looked back.

PS - forgot to say that Argyll is free, but very high quality software. The author is Graeme Gill, I think he sits somewhere in Australia making this. A true idealist.

[richardj21724418]

https://forums.adobe.com/people/D+Fosse  wrote

There is actually a workaround until then - a bit clumsy, but it'll work. Use Palette Master to calibrate the unit - and then use something like ArgyllCMS/Dispcal just to make the profile, without any calibration. It has that option.

Thanks. I might try that, although I suspect the sRGB calibration isn't correct either (not adopting the proper sRGB gamma curve).  I've not even mentioned that to BenQ yet.  One challenge at a time!

In truth I'm not bothered about the sRGB mode.  I run in native gamut and can put up with the desktop icon colours and apps that aren't colour managed.  The reason I'm nagging BenQ about this is it suggests an incorrect understanding of how to produce the colour profiles.  If the method of creating profiles for all the non-native gamuts is incorrect, it may mean the profile for the native gamut is incorrect too.  However, as you say, for resassurance it might be better to forget the PME generated profile and use ArgyllCMS/Dispcal instead.  Why don't monitor manufacturers consult people like Graeme Gill when developing a product?

At my level the BenQ is more than good enough, although I might change my mind if I had experience of something better!

[davescm]

. The author is Graeme Gill, I think he sits somewhere in Australia making this. A true idealist.

...........and very responsive too. I had a problem a couple of years ago with Argyll on a new computer. It turned out that with faster processing it was pulling readings off the i1Pro too fast which led to intermittent freezes whilst reading patches.  Within a couple of days of discussing it, Graeme had a test version of the software for me - and this was built into the next Argyll update. Fantastic !

Dave

[D Fosse]

Graeme is still on the Luminous Landscape forum - about the only reason to still go there after Andrew Rodney (the digital dog) and a few others stopped posting there.