Smartphones are Killing Off the Camera Manufacturers?

[Brian Stoppee]

Do people try to engage you in those conversations that, “Mobile phones are going to drive Canon, Nikon, and Sony into bankruptcy.”?

Is it possible that the opposite is true? Are phone cameras, with all their limitations, helping the “big 3” sell more cameras, overall?

Digital Single Lens Reflex (dSLR) camera and lens revenues are looking very good for Nikon. But, why are their imaging equipment sales trending downward?

The most recent quarterly report from Nikon shows their dSLR camera sales up 10% with a 50% increase in lens sales.  The downward trend is in those little point and shoot cameras. So, yes, the smartphones have invaded some portion of the camera manufacturing marketplace. But, if dSLR sales are trending upward, there’s an apparent renewed interest in great photography. The fact that just about all of the dSLRs are also allowing users to shoot great feature film quality motion pictures may have something to do with that, too.

This becomes a new business model focus (pun intended) for the big 3. Historically, point and shoot camera sales drove the profit picture for those companies. It was the financial fuel which funded the professional grade gear’s research, development, and manufacturing.

If mom and dad were bothered by how lousy the photos of kindergarten graduation turned out in June, from their not-so-smart phone, they have hopefully found a few hundred dollars for a dSLR before the first day of 1st grade. With dSLR sales on the rise, many families may be getting the message that important personal events don’t allow you to playback the footage and announce, “That’s a wrap for the day—let’s reset and we’ll do another take tomorrow at 7:30 AM.”

[John T Smith]

My wife has a Canon point and shoot that does pictures and video... which she never uses

Her video use is about 99.99% shoot and post on Facebook, so a REAL camera is a waste for her

Cleaning up her cell phone SD card when it gets full and she can't do any more recording is a different issue

[Brian Stoppee]

https://forums.adobe.com/people/John+T+Smith  wrote

Her video use is about 99.99% shoot and post on Facebook, so a REAL camera is a waste for her

I think you're on to something, John:

When you walk into one of those big box stores, which sell cameras (Best Buy, Target, Walmart, etc) they have the departments appropriately labeled:

"REAL Cameras"

"Not-So Real Cameras"

[John T Smith]

Had to laugh at that description of store signs

My cell phone will do video, which I will use if I "really" want to record something in a "spur of the moment" fashion and my real camera is at home

When I know in advance (like my brother's wedding last month) I use my Canon SX510 so I can record 1280x720 30 fps to then be able to edit in PPro and create a DVD in Encore to send later this year (when the weather is bad and I'm not working on my wife's outside list)

While I am sure there are people who would say that my Canon is not a "real" movie camera, it is all I need for family video work... starting with what I record and going down to DVD resolution, what I make is "almost" as good as a commercial DVD... plenty good enough for family use

Every time I go in Costco, I have to walk past the camera display near the front of the store... I can't remember the last time I saw a video only camera, but there are still a fair number of dual use still & video cameras on display, so I'm going to guess that "someone" (many someones) is still buying cameras to take good stills and video

[Brian Stoppee]

https://forums.adobe.com/people/John+T+Smith  wrote

I can't remember the last time I saw a video only camera, but there are still a fair number of dual use still & video cameras on display, so I'm going to guess that "someone" (many someones) is still buying cameras to take good stills and video

That should probably be a separate thread, but a couple years or so ago there was quite a bit of activity for the "sport" camcorders from Canon and Sony which fit into the palm of your hand. (They look like they're just a lens.)

That's a different set of research, but you have revved my curiosity.

[John T Smith]

I don't remember "sport" cameras from those 2 brands being discussed, but over in Community: Premiere Pro CC |Adobe Community there has been a fair amount of questions about the Go Pro camera with, at least in the past, a LOT of problems mentioned due to the proprietary (as I remember) Go Pro codec not being supported, and the need to use a converter to produce a video that would edit in Premiere Pro

I haven't seen as much about Go Pro for awhile, so I'm going to guess that the latest PPro now supports the Go Pro codec

[Brian Stoppee]

https://forums.adobe.com/people/John+T+Smith  wrote

I don't remember "sport" cameras from those 2 brands being discussed…

I don't see the "sport" term being used but there are Canon's:

https://shop.usa.canon.com/shop/en/catalog/consumer-camcorders

Sony now uses "Action":

Action Cameras | Action Cam Sports Cameras | Sony US

[Trevor.Dennis]

Brian was this thread driven by this article by any chance?  It just arrived in my inbox in a DPReview weekly newsletter

Smartphones killed the compact and now they're coming for entry-level ILCs: Digital Photography Revi...

I have to say I have been impressed by some of the results I have seen from recent cell phone cameras.  It's as if they can use clever software trickery to overcome their physical disadvantages compared to a big DSLR with a fast lens. 

[Brian Stoppee]

Trevor.Dennis  wrote

Brian was this thread driven by this article by any chance?

No. We had not seen it, but thank you for sharing the link.

Most of these things, that Janet & I post, come from our discussions between each other or with other people in the industry.

Sometimes they're a culmination of experiences we have had. It's been a few weeks since someone asked for our thoughts on what's happening with the camera manufacturers. So, this one was trigger from our looking over Nikon's quarterly report presentation materials. We avoid publishing things which we cannot verify.

[John T Smith]

Was just at Costco for other things, and walked by the camera counter... the "big" cameras they have today... I of course have no idea how many they sell

$1600 Nikon D7500

$1500 Nikon 80D

$1350 Nikon D3400

$600 Nikon D3400

$550 Canon T6

[Brad Lawryk]

I'd like to think it is more like the camera manufacturers are killing the camera manufacturers.

I have a fairly new Sony video camera and a new Canon camera. Both are collecting dust. The fact that my iPad Pro out performs both of them for less money and comes in a device that I use normally for other things and almost always have with me in fact creates the scenario that my free camera in my iPad out performs cameras that cost more than iPad.

If camera manufacturing companies want to compete they will have to catch up and become more economically viable. The market for bulky cameras is likely getting smaller by the day.

[Brian Stoppee]

https://forums.adobe.com/people/Brad+Lawryk  wrote

The fact that my iPad Pro out performs both of them for less money and comes in a device that I use normally for other things and almost always have with me in fact creates the scenario that my free camera in my iPad out performs cameras that cost more than iPad.

When your iPad Pro has the sensor specs of a Canon EOS 5DS, the features of a Nikon D850, and size of a Sony a7R II, then those guys need to worry, but until that day…

[Brad Lawryk]

But your average consumer won't buy those cameras at this point. That is a very small market compared to what market share they used to have.

[Brian Stoppee]

https://forums.adobe.com/people/Brad+Lawryk  wrote

But your average consumer won't buy those cameras at this point.

Nope. But the flagship cameras are the loss leaders for the manufacturers yet they drive the market.

[Gert Kracht]

Mobile phones are incredible versitaile. I use mine for taking (RAW) Photo's, making 4K video's, making timelapses and connect it to all of my other camera's.

Still, it will never become my main camera. The dynamic range of compact photo and video camera's is so much better, the sensors have better depth of field, less noise and way more light sensitivity. Next to that I can take more photo's, have multple batteries per camera, some are waterproof (like my GoPro 5 and Garmin Virb 360).

Next to my iPhone 7 I use a Canon XC10 4K semi professional camera (films 4K in 305 Mbit/sec and 4:2:2), a Panasonic compact video camera XV870 as B-cam, a Pansonic LX100 for photo's and 4K C-cam. My absolute favourite is the GoPro5, what a quality! No mobile phone can make the same pictures, still both work together like one. The Garmin Virb 360 is my latest camera which makes photo's and video in max 5k7 in 360. A mobile phone will never replace them all. It is my behind the scenes camera and mobile workhorse.

Big manufacturers do battle with mobile phones, but people will keep buying their products.

Just a tip: switch off your mobile network when you start filming important things. One call could ruin your work.

[Brian Stoppee]

https://forums.adobe.com/people/Gert+Kracht  wrote

Big manufacturers do battle with mobile phones, but people will keep buying their products.

Competition is a good thing!

It's good news that Apple keep stepping up their camera game. It keeps the camera manufacturers out in front of that.

As expressed elsewhere, the fixed lens camera market has a specific user audience. Apple us able to fulfill those needs while containing their costs for a mass production product.

Apple sold 78 million iPhones in a 90 day period. There seems to be a great deal of interest in the Nikon D850 but I have a funny feeling that the 1st 90 day sales period for that camera body might just come in at a weeeee bit less than the iPhones even if Nikon worked in an unexpected feature set which allowed you to use your camera to make calls, send texts, surf the internet, AND store your entire playlist.

Cameras and phones are very different markets.