Hi I do a lot of video editing and really like using the RGB Parade and Vectorscope.
Histogram for photos aren't as detailed. Is there any plugins or features that have similar functions like RGB Parade and Vectorscope for use inside Lightroom or maybe as an external editor?
Please (finally) add some professional tools to allow us to visualize, recognize, and locate dynamic range and color within an image: Vertically stacked "waveform" scopes for the R,G,B and Luma. (The old, very limited histogram long ago outlived its usefulness, especially as it's presented in LR.) Vertically aligned stacking of the scopes (rather than side-by-side parade scopes) makes it easier to coordiate the different scope displays and easier to correlate with a location in the image. A vertical column in each display would correspond to the values of R,G, & B in the correspondeing column of the image. The "brightness" of a point would roughly correspond to how many pixels have that intensity value in that particular column.
The vertical scale should go from less than 0 to greater than 1, where 0 is the current black point and 1.0 is the current clipping point. (Yes, negative values have meaning!) Include a toggle to easily go from showing the available RAW data (that might have data below the black level being displayed and above the current clipping level) to showing the clipped dynamic range (0.0 to 1.0 only). The target color space (sRGB, AdobeRGB, REC709, P3, etc. plus customizable settings) would determine what the "zero" and "one" levels correspond to in the RAW data. This way, you can easily see when data exists in the base image that is being clipped in the current rendering, and where it is located in the image.
While you're at it, allow options to do away with indicating color by 8-bit 0-255 values ANYWHERE in LR. I would like the options to use either 10-bit color values (that correlate to most video formats) or the more rational 0.000-to-1.000 scale any time a color is specified. This way you can see RGB color value representations that more closely match the 12-, 14-, or 16-bit values cameras use, as well as the new ACES format. Please also report standard luma values, not "brightness" or "luminance".
I expect that a vector scope, to actually be able to show things like skin tone and color casts, would be too much to ask for, but one can only hope.
>Do you think many "professionals" would use this to adjust their pictures?
John,
Yes. You would finally be able to see what the various sliders are doing to the RGB data of your image, and just as importantly, where. You would be able to see where highlight and shadow details are being clipped, as opposed to the data just not being there in the image at all. You could distinguish between clipping and crushing of the blacks, and tell where highlight color shifts are due to one channel clipping and not the others. (The vaguely defined histograms don't show any of this. What looks like clipping on the histogram may or may not be, and you can't tell where in the image a particular point on the histogram lies.)
As people get used to these scopes, they could learn to use them to judge color shifts they might not see easily on an sRGB monitor, and to set levels properly for video.
Every professional film and video color grading system out there has these tools, and they are usually displayed continuously while doing color timing. So, yes, professionals do use them, and would use them if they were in LR.
John,
The above comment addressed the need for waveform-like parade scopes and color RGB values on a linear, real number scale (rather than integers from 0-255 or some nebulous + or - setting). I suspect that most professioinal photographers would have no idea what a vector scope is or how to use it. While it can be an essential tool in color grading video, for green-screen keying and matte pulling, and judging things like skin tone, there's a learning curve, I suspect that most people, including most pros, wouldn't spend the time to learn. It would be really nice to have, but is probably not as essential as the above. Make that one for LR5 🙂
I'd love to have a set of scopes in Lightroom instead of the histogram- have been plugging in a smallhd for a while as an external display to get waveform for stills editing. Hopefully they integrate it in software. Would be great.
Thanks but that's really a workaround. shouldn't there at least be one plugin in the world that does this ?
No, it doesn't exist. This has not been something that people do in the stills world at all. My guess is that it will become more common but currently I don't think anybody has thought about this. Also note that you can't really write a plugin that easily embeds into the Lightroom interface so that route wouldn't really work. You can make a window popup but there is no way to have some dynamically updated window such as a scope you would use in color grading video so you could immediately see the results of your slider changes. So Adobe would have to supply something like this. Therefore what I would recommend is to submit this as a feature request on http://feedback.photoshop.com . Many features requested there get implemented over time.
Your comment about stills is not entirely accurate. Also, Adobe is aware of this need as they have introduced the ability to create LUT's and perform grading with Photoshop. So having Vector Scopes as a tools would be a great addition. Maybe a challenge to implement within Lightroom, but should be doable in Photoshop.
It would improve my workflow and the applications usability, if the lumetri scopes from Premiere were available in Lightroom and Photoshop as well! The histogram is limited to giving information about brights and darks. A panel with Vectorscope, RGB Parade and Waveform can show you WHERE exactly these brights and darks are, plus where which color is in your picture! So I'm asking you Adobe, why isn't it already there?? I also wish there would be a skintone line in the vectorscope within Ps and Lr.
I learned to edit videos before learning to edit photos. And I reckon most people won't follow this path. However, I consider it inconceivable not to have tools like this in lightroom or photoshop. Vectograms are much friendly tools (the way they are implemented in PremierPro for instance with the YUV vectogram and the color wheel to adjust it among others). I can assure you having being a beginner in photography editing but having used these tools in Video, they are much simpler to understand and use. I think it is not just a nice to have, it would be an excellent addition and I can see many software tools started to implement it. Adobe shouldn't stay behind.
As a colorblind photographer, I often have to export my photos to DaVinci Resolve or Premiere Pro to color check my photos before delivery to clients or before I share my work. Needless to say, this is a headache and slows my workflow immensely.
A feature similar to the Vectorscope or RGB Parade would be a perfect addition to fix this issue. It would aid able-visioned artists as well with things like white balancing if they want to be creative with their tones and want a more visual check of how they've adjusted their images.
Having this feature as something that could toggle on/off in the place of the histogram or another drop down option in the develop module would be a fantastic add to an already great program.
Morgan- if you're going this far, you may want to look at hardware options to do just that- any of the SmallHD monitors that are current have scopes in hardware, and have HDMI in, so you can have onesetup as you work. Also- I think Blackmagic also sells some scopes that would do the same sort of thing- I think that's what my colourist has setup in his world- a parade, vector, and another waveform if memory serves.
Duncan, while I appreciate the reply, it appears that you missed my point. I'm looking to avoid unnecessary additions to my workflow and add a feature into something that I already use, rather than getting another monitor to fix this problem.
I've colored and worked in grading suites before. They're incredible for videography and filmmaking, but definitely overkill for most photography. You are correct, though. Colorists use a vectorscope, RGB parade, histogram, and waveform to accurately work with their footage.
may I ask then how do professional photo editors manage tasks like obtaining "true" skin color values and saturation control without vectorscope? Also, I would love to see Waveform monitor in Lightroom, as regular histogram isn't accurate enough for me.
Based on what, their monitor? If they use three monitors, do they "eyeball" using the left one, middle or right? Or the one that's the brightest? How old are they? Or maybe they just like LG the most to color grade, because it nicely crushes the blacks... is it sunny outside or a sunset? They work at night maybe, or don't have windows? If so, what color temperature is their artificial light?
I could go on... you realize all of the above have signifiacant influence of how you perceive the colors? That is why in my professional work I always use scopes. And also that is why I find amusing that photography professionals just eyeball all of it.
Yes, I do know plenty and I'm telling you as it is. Some who make their living from photography (ie "professionals") do apply more sophisticated techniques and hardware like daylight balanced viewing boxes, but photography and video are different. Individual images versus sequences, points in time/light rather than ever-changing scenes that need to be joined and matched? Typically, some photographers carry a colour chart on location and use it for colour matching, many calibrate their monitor(s), and a few obtain more accurate paper profiles than those supplied by paper manufacturers. You do get some who insist they must use CMYK values (again, print-oriented) as a recipe for skin tones, though that's not something many Lightroom users would do. They do use their eyes.
It's really an interesting, and frankly quite shocking opinion that "photographers wouldn't know what it is and therefore it shouldn't be implemented". I have witnessed the down grade on craftmanship the last year, and it sure still is dropping. The big companies want to reach for the masses and turn the back to professionals, and the masses don't have any clue of what to expect (and the evil, big companies rub their hands and giggle all the way to the bank since they do the same as the big masses - as little as possible) but the worst thing is that the big masses actively reject knowledge.
"- Do you want to know how to do it even better? - NO! GO AWAY! EXPERTS IN ALL WAYS ARE EVIL GOVERNMENT BOUGHT PEOPLE THAT HIDE THE TRUTH FROM US ORDINARY PEOPLE! EARTH IS FLAT! I ONLY BELIEVE IN MY OWN CAPABILITIES! I ONLY BELIEVE IN WHAT I COME UP WITH WHEN SITTING ON THE TOILET! I REFUSE TO LEARN FROM ANY ONE ELSE BECAUSE THAT WOULD MAKE ME OFFENDED!!!".
Put in standard tools as RGB Parade and Vectorscope. Give all parameters much higher precision.
Make a big flip button with the text "I'M A TIN FOIL HAT" that hide everything with a higher learning curve than what an ant can step over.
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