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Misinterpretation of Sony picture profiles on raw .AWR files

Explorer ,
Aug 30, 2017 Aug 30, 2017

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I shoot both video and stills with my Sony a6300 and I recently started to use picture profile 3 (PP3) with cine4 gamma for my videos, which is a nice compromise between the standard and the log.

When I shot a still I usually remember to change the picture profile back, but sometimes on the run and gun I forget. While on the go, I edited some pictures on my old MacBook Pro and I realized Lightroom applies some sort of LUT to the pictures shot with PP3 (it loads a bit sluggish, that's why I can see the "LUT" being applied).

I've read something about this and I know this is not Lightroom fault because it can't really interpret Sony profiles and applies this sort of correction.

Now I'm back at my office and I'm editing the pictures on my desktop PC, a Windows machine. At first I was still noticing this correction being applied, but now that I went through about 600 pictures it looks like it's skipping this on a bunch of them. I'm sure on the pictures that have the PP3 because they are shot at ISO 200 (which is the limit) while the others are ISO 100 since it was mid day, very bright situation.

This is all very strange to me, is there something different between the way Mac and PC render raw files in Lightroom?

Also, as a side note, for stills I usually use PP2 with color mode Stills. It's a very light difference between this and the PP off but to me it looks like it's rendering the green colors a bit better. In this case I can't really see a correction being applied by Lightroom, one because the difference is very mild, two because there is no gamma change in this profile, just a light color adjustment.

I hope someone can share some knowledge on this topic.

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correct answers 1 Correct answer

LEGEND , Aug 30, 2017 Aug 30, 2017

When I go in Lightroom though I see that it's applying a correction onto the images after they are loaded, at the time time it's applying the lens correction.

When LR first imports a raw, the thumbnail initially shows the JPEG preview the camera embedded in the raw. In background, LR then starts computing a LR preview from the raw, and as soon as that preview is computed, it updates the thumbnail in Library.

As Jim explained, the JPEG preview incorporates the PP3 camera setting, whereas LR doesn't

...

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LEGEND ,
Aug 30, 2017 Aug 30, 2017

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If you are shooting raw images with your camera it doesn't make any difference which one of those picture styles you are trying to apply because Lightroom isn't going to read that information. Those are proprietary settings and Lightroom doesn't read those. If you're shooting JPEG images then that information is baked in to the image when the image is created in the camera and Lightroom can't change that. So please clarify your shooting process and your question.

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Explorer ,
Aug 30, 2017 Aug 30, 2017

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Yes I know that. I'm shooting RAW but I actually see the picture profile on the RAW images both browsing the images on the computer and in Lightroom. When I go in Lightroom though I see that it's applying a correction onto the images after they are loaded, at the time time it's applying the lens correction. If I look at the same image inside Lighrtoom after it's been loaded (both in Library and Develop) and then look at the image opening it from the file explorer, I can clearly see a difference in colors.

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LEGEND ,
Aug 30, 2017 Aug 30, 2017

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Of course you can. File Explorer is not a raw converter, it is showing you the embedded JPEG preview that is part of every raw image. It's the same JPEG preview that is displayed in the camera. It's showing all of the in-camera adjustments that Lightroom ignores. You can't expect to compare the File Explorer display with what you are doing in Lightroom. Assuming that your monitor is properly calibrated or that you have a good monitor profile, edit one of your raw images to your satisfaction and export a JPEG, TIF or PSD image using the sRGB color space. Then open that image in File Explorer and compare it with the raw image.

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Explorer ,
Aug 30, 2017 Aug 30, 2017

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Alright, I get the explorer and jpeg preview, totally make sense. Still I get to see the image change inside Lightroom, when it applies the lens profile it's also applying some color correction.

Obliviously if I edit the picture and then export a jpeg it'll look different, I edited it. I know that and I can still edit the pictures this way, but I see lightroom putting something over my image and I would like to know what's going on.

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LEGEND ,
Aug 30, 2017 Aug 30, 2017

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When I go in Lightroom though I see that it's applying a correction onto the images after they are loaded, at the time time it's applying the lens correction.

When LR first imports a raw, the thumbnail initially shows the JPEG preview the camera embedded in the raw. In background, LR then starts computing a LR preview from the raw, and as soon as that preview is computed, it updates the thumbnail in Library.

As Jim explained, the JPEG preview incorporates the PP3 camera setting, whereas LR doesn't know anything about that setting and computes a preview from the raw as if there were no PP3 setting applied.  That's why you see the LR Library preview change soon after the raw is imported.  (Technically, there is no LUT involved in this process, by the way.)

You could try using Sony's Image Data Converter to convert such raws to TIFFs before importing them into LR. I believe that the converted TIFF should look similar to the embedded JPEG preview.  I've tried this with PP7 (S-Log2) but not PP3.  See this thread for more details: Re: Sony RX100 Mark V slog 2 picture profile ruined in Lightrom and ARC

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Explorer ,
Aug 30, 2017 Aug 30, 2017

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That makes sense now. The differences I see on the photos imported on my Mac with the PC are for sure due to the Monitor, so nothing to say there.

Just one last thing: I usually use PP2 for my photos, which has color setting "stills" and to me it looks like it renders the green a bit better. I can definitely see a difference here even in the raw files. I want to make a proper test to prove it but I'm sure about it, because before I used it I was constantly lowering my green saturation on landscapes, while now with PP2 I never have to do that.

I know it should't effect raws, I'll update this as soon as I have a test done.

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LEGEND ,
Aug 30, 2017 Aug 30, 2017

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I'm certainly not going to try to tell you how to process your images. But you can modify the settings in Lightroom and save new default settings. For instance, I use a Nikon camera and I found that the reds were a little oversaturated. My solution was to go to the calibration section and reduce the red saturation by -15 and then save new defaults for the camera. That seemed  to produce a good starting point for new imports for me.

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New Here ,
Jan 06, 2023 Jan 06, 2023

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This is because As it may seem that Picture profile doesn't affect RAW files on ssony, It DOES affect the RAW files when GAMMA is changed. As you said, you are using PP# right? Check the Gamma setting in that PP.

This issue is explained in detail by Gerald in this video:-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GGDkf4wMWg

So as long as you are using Creative style, you are safe. but when you use Picture profile, you affect the curves of RAW files as well due to change in gamma curve.

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