GPU upgrade: GTX 1060 6GB for 4K realtime editing

[masai91]

Hi, I just had a read on a lot of discussions here and elsewhere about this topic, but I wanted to ask you to make sure I will be getting a balanced system, and ensuring there are no others bottlenecks.

Here is my system:

PC Win 10 64bit

CPU: Intel i5 6500 stock @3.2GHz, hopefully I can do some light OC in the near future (time is the issue)

MoBo: MSI Z170A PC MATE

RAM: 2 x 8GB DDR4 HyperX Fury @ 2666MHz

GPU: AMD R7 260X 2GB

SSD 1: Samsung 840 EVO 120GB (used for system and software)

SSD 2: Crucial MX300 750GB (projects, cache, previews, proxies, and sometimes even media)

HD: Seagate Barracuda 4TB (storage media)

My usual files are:

XAVC S 4K 24/25p and HD 100/120p from a Sony a6300

4K DJI mavic files

4K or 2.7K GoPro Hero4 files

Right now editing 4K footage is impossible and even working with proxies is not really what I call a smooth workflow. With cineform proxies is a bit better, but most of the times I have to use H265 proxies at 960x540 because of the 120fps that media encoder is not able to encode properly (it results in 119fps with sync issures, they might resolve this known bug soon, but not sure).

All of that being said I was thinking to upgrade to a GTX 1060 6GB because I think for the money it's the best option considering my system.

I was also thinking to up the RAM to 32GB, but memory is quite expensive right now, twice as much as what I paid last year for this (damn you smartphones...) so if it's not really my bottleneck I would skip it for now.

What do you think? Would I be able to edit 4K real time without using proxies? I can live with some dropped frames when I put lumetri color grades or when I have some effects, but I would like to at least be able to review, trim and build my timeline without issues.

[RjL190365]

That's a step in the right direction, but still nowhere near enough for 4K. In fact, that i5-6500 is still much too weak for this kind of work, and cannot be overclocked at all (this means that the maximum multiplier is completely locked to stock - something that Intel has done to all of its non-K CPUs since Haswell). You really need three or even four upgrades just to even come close to handling 4k smoothly.

And no upgraded GPU can come anywhere close to compensate for the weaknesses of the CPU. So, if an i5-6500 is too weak for 4K to begin with, not even a Titan Xp can suddenly make 4k editing viable. Not even close.

So, if three or more components are in serious need of upgrading, as in your particular case, I would recommend that you wait until you can afford all of the necessary major core component upgrades at once - CPU, motherboard, GPU and RAM. (In fact, the only reason to upgrade the GPU alone would be if you are running a program or game that makes use of the GTX 1060 while at the same time your current R7 260 starts to get choked on that same program.) 4k work really calls for an 8-core, 16-thread or better CPU. Unfortunately, your current motherboard cannot support such a CPU at all; the best CPU that it currently supports is the i7-6700K (unless you had already updated its EFI/BIOS to the latest version, which would permit upgrading to the newer i7-7700K) - which have only four cores and eight threads (your current i5-6500 lacks hyper threading, so it has only four cores and four threads).

[masai91]

I understand, in this case I believe there is no point in only getting the GPU so I might as well start considering a full upgrade.

I can narrow down my options like this:

1_  Get only the 1060. ( ~350euro ) Will I get minor improvements? still using proxies of course, maybe improvements with effects and color grading?

2_  Get the 1060 and a 6700K or 7700K if I do the EFI update. ( ~700euro ) Will I see some improvements at all? Maybe I can still use proxies but I will be able to do everything without issues and when I color grade (and I want to look at the original file) I could play it with minor dropped frames.

I upgraded CPU motherboard and RAM last year because my old motherboard broke. At the time I didn't have the amount of video editing work I have to do right now, so I didn't plan for that and I only got what I could find at the local store that day.

Otherwise do you have any other advice with proxy workflow that will improve performances?

Thank you.

[Bill_Gehrke]

Put it this way, I have a laptop with a 4-core, 8-thread mobile CPU (less powerful than the i7-6700K or i7-7700K and a simple GTX 765M GPU and easily and smoothly edit my 4K XAVC-S 100Mbit/s media from my Sony FDR-AX100.

So if you just want to try one or the other, I would try the CPU upgrade first and chose the slightly faster i7-7700K because I do not see any price difference here in the US.  I am assuming that your R7-260X does give you some GPU acceleration.

[masai91]

Thank you. I can first try to upgrade my bios to the latest version to ensure I can get the new i7-7700K. Right now here form Amazon Italy, there is a 40 euro difference, so if it's worth it I will go with the 7700K which sells for about 340 euro.

In theory the 260X should give me acceleration, since it's listed on the Recommended AMD and NVIDIA video adapters for GPU acceleration for Premiere Pro, but I'm not sure.

Yesterday I was checking during regular playback of a 4K from the Mavic, it was obviously lagging really bad and I had to stop at least every 5 seconds. The CPU was going between 60-100% while the GPU was almost always at 0%, with a few singular peaks at 100%, the GPU memory though was 1.5GB of the 2GB available.

Is there a way to see if my system is actually balanced and Premiere is using the resources, some kind of test software or a proved way to see what's really going on?

[Bill_Gehrke]

If you want to see full usage of your CPU and GPU download my Premiere Pro BenchMark (PPBM) and run the four tests, 

[masai91]

Thanks I'll do that today and I'll let you know the results.

Yesterday I was at a computer shop in the area (where I usually buy stuff, they have same prices as amazon as they are an online shop but they have the store close to my town) and I explained my problem. They obviously said the whole system needs upgrading but their advice was to change the GPU first and later next year maybe do the whole system. Since the GPU is my oldest and weakest point it's the one worth upgrading now.

At this point since I'm not doing any gaming what so ever, they said I would be better off with an Nvidia Quadro P1000 (400 euro) instead of a GTX 1060 6GB (320 auro) even if the Quadro has only 4GB. I was a bit skeptical about this since I know that Quadro cards are much more expensive because of the 10bit and the dedicated instructions and at similar price point they don't offer the same raw power needed for Premiere. They said even if that's true, the quadro will have better results because of the dedicated instructions and architecture, resulting in less errors and less dropped frames even simply by playing back the 4K timeline with no effects or colors applied.

I couldn't find any real comparison on the web about the actual P1000 so I ask you.

[Bill_Gehrke]

Forget any Quadro unless you have a very very expensive 10-bit monitor!  The rest is pure BS

[RjL190365]

I actually found information for the Quadro P1000:

For all practical purposes, it is the same GPU as a GeForce GTX 1050 (non-Ti), but with 4GB of 128-bit GDDR5 VRAM running at 1750 MHz instead of the GTX 1050's standard 2GB of that same type of VRAM. So, you'd be paying a lot extra just to get an additional 2GB of VRAM.

And the only reason why Premiere Pro feels "faster" than a normally faster-performing GeForce GPU is that portions of the Premiere Pro interface rely heavily on OpenGL (not to be confused with OpenCL), an API which Nvidia's gaming GPUs with their drivers have historically choked on.

Randall

[masai91]

Thank you for the detailed information.

When you talk about the interface relying on OpenGL I start to think of the times when I see the interface freezing and glitching, with black screen for some seconds and so on. Is that slowing down the whole process? I see this on my actual system with the AMD 260X which uses OpenCL to accelerate, but I'm not sure how that deals with OpenGL compared to the Geforce.

Also I want to add I'm using two extended monitors to edit, a 1200p and 1080p and I have a separate window of premiere on the second monitor (with media browser, project folders and more). Is that putting too much work on the GPU or the CPU to load the extra pixels of interface or it just doesn't make any difference?