Is there a future for LR Classic?

[Califdan2]

With this weeks announcement one has to wonder what Adobe's strategic plan is for Lightroom.  But, there hare hints.  First of all let's look at product naming.  Why would thay take the name of an existing product (LR CC) and give that name to a new product and then rename the prior product "Classic" (as in "old", or "obsolete")?

To me this is a strong hint that their strategic plan is to move forward with the new CC version and abandon what they now call Classic.  If that were not the case, why not call the pre-existing version "LR Pro", or :"LR Desktop" and the new one "LR Lite" or "Lightroom Elements" or "LR Web" or "LR Mobile"?  There were so many name alternatives that would have made more sense if their intention was to keep both products.  So, I suspect that keeping both products for the long term is not their intent.

Maybe the new CC product is fine for the casual user but the structure of the new LR CC is not conducive to the needs of the professional or advanced photographer.  These are people with multiple terabytes of RAW images,  These are people with multiple catalogs, these are people who do their own high end printing.  These are people who's very livelihood depends on advanced features in both the Library and the Develop module (among others).  I have no doubt that LR/CC will acquire the full range of tools from ACR, but the structure of LR/CC seems to preclude getting advanced features in the Library area.  And, as it seems to be a mainly mobile oriented tool set the idea of a robust print capability is somewhat suspect (how many people print form their iPhone?).

And then there is caqpacity.  Even if Adobe allowed unlimited cloud storage for no extra cost, who can afford the time required to upload 4 or 5 thousand images to the cloud after a shoot?   And, without a folder structure (the lack of which in CC seems to be a fundamental design construct) and non hierarchical keywords managing images becomes a nightmare. Not to mention the current lack of smart collections and publish services which many of us rely on quite heavily. 

So, I am scared that Adobe may just pull the plug on Classic in a year or two.  In fact they have already stated that they will no longer make changes to Classic other than in the Develop Module.  And they really have to do very little to incorporate new Develop Module features since they are coded in the RAW processor that is used by ACR for Photoshop, LR CC, LR Classic, and as I understand even Elements.  For LR Classic all they need to do is add the slider or panel. So, in essence they are stating that they will not be devoting resources to Classic other than adding a slider or panel to operate a new RAW Processor feature.

Remember when in CC/2015.2 they destroyed the Import Dialog in a misguided attempt to "modernize" the process (read dumb down the process)?  Remember the user backlash that eventually forced them to back track?  Well, they didn't give up.  Instead they are doing the same thing but just packaging it differently and extending it beyond just the import dialog.  The seem to be dumbing down the entire product (as they did with the import dialog)  but are trying to avoid the backlash by packaging it in a different product.  Think about this.  What would you be doing right now if they had announced that the only LR going forward was what they now call CC (or even the new CC with all the same develop module tools from Classic) and that the older version would no longer be supported?   I suspect this is their ultimate goal but they are stretching out the implementation to avoid the backlash. 

If you agree with my reasoning and have a problem with what I suspect is the ultimate goal, NOW is the time to let them know.  Don't wait till they pull the plug on Classic which I believe is the ultimate goal.  Let them know NOW that if they do they will have another "improved import dialog" disaster on their hands and it will be much worse as there are now some fine competitive products on the market where their customer base may flee to. 

NOW is the time to let them know that you want Classic to remain, to be supported, and to be upgraded with new features in ALL the modules (not just the Develop Module).   NOW is the time to let them know that LR/CC is not looking like it can be a long term solution to your needs.

Apologies for this rant but fear drives action and I'm scared.

Dan

[nbirkett51]

I agree - Classic will be gone within two years based on current plans.  I agree about the name change. I've been 'ranting'. BUt, to be successful, 'big name' photographers, commentators and Adobe users will need to speak up.  The big question is: will they?

[99jon]

First of all let's look at product naming.  Why would thay take the name of an existing product (LR CC) and give that name to a new product

It’s quite simple. It refers to the entire Creative Cloud ecosystem. The new Lr CC is the missing jigsaw piece for the desktop.

Infographic

[nbirkett51]

99Jon said: It’s quite simple. It refers to the entire Creative Cloud ecosystem. The new Lr CC is the missing jigsaw piece for the desktop.

Sorry, but isn't 'simple'.  If you look at the version of LIghtroom before the current release, it was called 'Photoshop Lightroom CC'.  They are not introducing a new product to fill a hole in their CC lineup.

Your infographic is not showing the 'Creative Cloud'.  Rather, it is showing how a few products within CC link to each other.  Every current Adobe product has 'CC' as part of its name.  That simply places it within the delivery framework and release timeline. And, none of the other CC products are 100% tied in to cloud storage.

[JP Hess]

Personally, I don't think now is the time to start worrying about what the future of Lightroom Classic is or what the future of Lightroom CC is. The new Lightroom CC is in its infancy. In my opinion, it's incomplete and still under development. None of us know where it's heading or what it will include in the future. And trying to guess where things will be in one year, two years, or five years is an exercise in futility. If you want to jump ship, jump. I like Lightroom Classic as it is right now. I'm going to keep using it as I have used Lightroom CC in the past. When/if it doesn't meet my needs then, and only then, will I panic and start looking for something different. In the meantime I'm just going to keep taking pictures and doing what I've been doing in the past.

[D Fosse]

JimHess  wrote

None of us know where it's heading or what it will include in the future. And trying to guess where things will be in one year, two years, or five years is an exercise in futility

All of that is IMO secondary.

The important thing is internet bandwidth. With the current state of internet bandwidth, the fanciest application in the world wouldn't make any difference. It would still be utterly useless for the high-volume/high-speed work some of us need to get done.

That's what worries me. This current "cloud" hype, which everyone seems to buy into uncritically, needs a reality check. Things will have to improve by many, many orders of magnitude before this becomes an option of any relevance at all.

[JP Hess]

And that is precisely why I'm not going to worry about it right now. If I can't use it in the future I won't. I can enjoy it for the time being and until things change. When that happens I'll have to make a decision. But I don't have to do that right now.

[kwschnautz]

JimHess  wrote

And that is precisely why I'm not going to worry about it right now. If I can't use it in the future I won't. I can enjoy it for the time being and until things change. When that happens I'll have to make a decision. But I don't have to do that right now.

But here lies the problem:

You have two options right now:

1) Purchase LR6 and use it as a standalone app 'indefinitely' or until our newer OS's deem it unusable. You can maintain all your photos from the past, and continue to maintain your new ones with the same interface you're familiar with. Yes, it still has performance issues, but it's usable as is.

2) You continue to buy into the Classic option, adobe makes some improvements, and you are happy for a couple years. But then you're severely disappointed when adobe cuts the cord for Classic and DOESN'T offer a feasible alternative. Now you have all your ducks in a row, but they're in the cloud, with no ability to get them back out. OR they are all stored locally, but their old standalone software can't access the "classic cc" catalog's data.

At least with option 1, you have your photos where you can get to them, and if you want to migrate to another tool later, you can do so.

[Jao vdL]

Lightroom Classic will not disappear until LR CC is at least reasonably feature parity. As you can see from the current release we are VERY far away from that point and I don't see Adobe close that gap anytime soon as these are the same things that have been missing from the mobile versions for years.

[johnrellis]

In fact they have already stated that they will no longer make changes to Classic other than in the Develop Module. 

Do you have a link for that?

Victoria Bampton (Lightroom Queen) wrote: "Future development of Lightroom Classic is being refocused on improving performance and enhancing the editing tools. It’s become a bit of a jack-of-all-trades over the last few years, so this new focus is great news for serious Lightroom users." But that isn't saying the other modules will be frozen.

[john beardsworth]

Better to get it from the horse's mouth rather than the queen's. In a discussion of whether "Classic" is end-of-life, Tom Hogarty writes:

I'm not sure if there are any additional words I can say to reassure this group about Lightroom Classic. Actions are more important than words so please hold us accountable while we continue to update LrClassic over time. As I've mentioned publicly before our focus is performance, editing enhancements and features/functionality that have been strong customer requests over time(the new embedded preview workflow is a strong indication of that type of direction).

[D Fosse]

OK, let's assume this is what happens, just on good faith.

It is still the most ill-conceived name imaginable. What were they thinking? How can they possibly be surprised that customers react this way?

[john beardsworth]

Don't expect me to argue! The best I've got is that New Coke went down the drain and Coke Classic is still around.

[bob frost]

Hi John, Do you not remember someone called Tom Hogarty reassuring everyone that Adobe were NOT going to do away with the perpetual licences for LR? Then he got promoted.

Bob Frost

[john beardsworth]

https://forums.adobe.com/people/bob+frost  wrote

Hi John, Do you not remember someone called Tom Hogarty reassuring everyone that Adobe were NOT going to do away with the perpetual licences for LR? Then he got promoted.

Bob Frost

No, I don't Bob. Do you want to give a reference? Feel free to use Google or even the Wayback Machine to find him saying that.

What I do remember is the word "indefinitely" being used here​:

Q. Will Lightroom become a subscription only offering after Lightroom 5?

A. Future versions of Lightroom will be made available via traditional perpetual licenses indefinitely.

That was back in 2013. Were we really not so media-savvy or cynical enough to understand exactly what was meant?

[Test Screen Name]

A lot of people choose to read "indefinitely" as if it is a word for "forever" rather than "for an unspecified period".

[john beardsworth]

Ever heard of "wishful thinking"?

[bob frost]

Many people were obviously not cynical enough to realise that 'Indefinitely' is a 'weasel' word. It can mean whatever you want. So such assurances are worthless.

If what I read about corporate responsibility to shareholders is half true, Tom Hogarty should probably not make any statements about the future of LR or any other Adobe program. He is not in charge of Adobe, and therefore cannot give any meaningful assurances to mere users/customers. He can always be over-ridden, so best keep mum.

'Que Sera, sera, whatever will be, will be; the future' s not ours to see, que sera, sera.'

bob Frost

[David_Illig]

It's not really Adobe's fault if people, cynics or not, don't know the meaning of indefinitely. I took it to mean we don't know, or we haven't decided. But it doesn't matter one whit; I prefer the subscription model for convenience, and the cost is not a burden to me.

[Jao vdL]

That was back in 2013. Were we really not so media-savvy or cynical enough to understand exactly what was meant?

Indeed. I had many discussions here with people that did not understand the very plain meaning of indefinite. All it means is that they hadn't made a decision yet on when to completely shift to subscription. That is the plain meaning of the sentence. My suspicion is that Adobe weren't 100% certain at the time how well this would work for them. Turned out incredibly successful for them though.

[ronc62810223]

Good "rant." I have the same concerns. Best case, the name changes surely signal a change of focus; worst case they raise concerns about the future of "Classic."

It would seem the Adobe folks are going after the youth market, the highly coveted 18 to 35 demographic, for whom instant gratification trumps high quality. Probably they see more growth there. But I think they're deluding themselves. Anyone who is satisfied with editing a photo on a cellphone screen, or even on a tablet screen, does not need the new Lightroom CC. They can do everything they want with the default photo editor that comes with the phone.

For "Classic" users, the steps required for migrating your photos to the new Lightroom CC are daunting. They look like a nightmare in the making. Below is what you'll lose when you do. (The last two items, "Folders and folder hierarchy" and "Smart Collections" I could not live without. I suspect that ’s true of most Lightroom users.)

NOTE:

Collections of your photos in Lightroom Classic CC automatically become albums in Lightroom CC. The following data in your Lightroom Classic CC catalog won’t be available in Lightroom CC after migration:

• Snapshots
• Custom metadata
• Creations: books, slideshows, and print/web creations
• Shares on Lightroom for the web
• Map-saved locations
• Folders and folder hierarchy
• Smart collections

[Conrad C]

Califdan2  wrote

In fact they have already stated that they will no longer make changes to Classic other than in the Develop Module.

I would like to see where that was posted, because that’s the opposite of what the Lightroom team posted on their blog yesterday, where they stated that Lightroom Classic “has an exciting roadmap of improvements well into the future.” And that’s significantly less vague than saying it will be around indefinitely.

It is true though that now is the time to make any concerns known; that’s how the Import dialog controversy was resolved.

[D Fosse]

https://forums.adobe.com/people/Conrad+C  wrote

It is true though that now is the time to make any concerns known

Yes, I worry, and I think it's a legitimate worry. I worry that some people believe that cloud storage is actually a viable option for a 1200-frame shoot of 36-50 megapixel raw files. After all, I hear this on a daily basis from people who should know better (why don't you store on the company's off-site server? Because it's too slow and unreliable, that's why).

Very few people seem to understand the importance of bandwidth.

If you ask me, the new naming should raise a lot of red flags. Classic is just another word for Legacy. The name alone will make it very easy for someone higher up to shut the whole thing down. Sometimes, language creates its own reality.

I don't care what they say now. They also said there were no plans to discontinue perpetual licensing. That didn't worry me, I don't mind subscription - but this does worry me.

[Califdan2]

I'm afraid I misspoke about Adobe's statement.  The source was articles from The Lightroom Queen (Victoria).  One article is here     There was another article or email which I can't find right now where she opined that the future changes would be limited to performance and editing.  As she is tightly plugged into Adobe people, and has had access to pre-launch versions and I assume product briefings collateral material.  I assumed she got that opinion from Adobe. 

As for the folks who have suggested to just wait and see what happens that is certainly a strategy.  However an ounce of prevention (or persuasion) is worth a pound of cure.  Large corporations like Adobe (I worked for Adobe for 5 years) make strategic and tactical plans based on their opinion of what will generate the most profit (that's what corporations do).  Much of that thinking is based on market research but much is also based on the ideas of those creating the plans.  But, make no mistake.  It is much easier to alter such plans in the early stages, when only a small investment has been made rather than at the end of the cycle when heavy investments have been made and people's career's are married to the success or failure of the direction they have been championing for months or years.   In other words if the basis of their decision making is flawed for whatever reason (poor market research, lack of appreciation for a segment of their market,  aught up in the trend of the moment) I'm sure they'd much prefer to figure that out earlier than later.  Just ask the product manager in charge of the disastrous roll out of the LR CC/2015.2 Improved Import dialog.  I'm sure he would have been much happier if he knew much earlier how that would be received.  Of course Adobe does not announce plans.  They only drop hints.

When I look at the hints that came along with this release, I see enough red flags for me to believe that Adobe's plan is to replace Classic with CC.  Not now but not all that far in the future.  If I am NOT correct (it's happened before) then any feedback we give Adobe now will be taken as confirmation that they are on the right track (assuming we articulate what we rely on in Classic and that happens to already be in their plans).  However if I am correct then feedback now will become leverage to those in the company that do not agree with the current strategy or, at a minimum, will give leverage to the idea that CC pretty darn well must be brought up to the same level of functionality as Classic before they pull the plug on Classic.  

For example, if you can't live without folders let them know.  If smart collections save you hours of labor a week let them know.   If your business depends on Publish Collections let them know.  If hierarchical keywords are the backbone of your processes, let them know.   Or, say nothing and hope for the best.  . 

[JP Hess]

I watched the Adobe Max presentation on YouTube today. I know, it's probably available in other places as well. Adobe is committed to making images available anywhere, on all devices, at any time, any place. It's where the company is heading. It's where Lightroom CC is going. The attitude seems to be that Lightroom CC Classic is the old way of doing things, and if you really want to be cool you had better plan on changing. Well, I have a disability and I can't use iPads and smart phones and all this cool new technology. The old way works great for me. Technology is leaving me in the dust. Maybe it's time to find a new hobby.