Soft-proofing from Profoto to SRGB on BenQ in Photoshop

[katjav97822606]

Even after reading tons of forums I still dont get how to set up my system to see the colors correctly,so would appreciate any advice...

I have BenQ monitor color calibrated and set up for adobe rgb.

The monitor in Windows 10 is set up to BenQ color calibrated profile.

I am using the following working set up in Photoshop to be able to work in the maximum color space.

The problem I have is with soft proofing actually.

When I use soft proofing for sRGB the result is different from convert to sRGB

without soft proof the picture is as follows ( a little bit brighter)

So, when I try to convert the image for web - it is always a gamble.

Left is image with soft proof on and right - convert to sRGB without profile

Why doesn't soft proofing in sRGB show me same results as conversion to sRGB?

Embed color profiles is somewhat the same (though i can still see the difference), but I don't want to use this option as I have no idea what monitors/browsers the customers use.

So, my goal is to edit in profoto, softproof in sRGB and convert to sRGB without embedding color profile so that the softproof and convert versions match.

Is it at all possible?

thanks in advance

[D Fosse]

You're not soft proofing to sRGB, but to "Internet Standard", which is not the same thing. It's a hybrid setting that assigns sRGB and ignores the monitor profile. What use anyone could have of that is beyond me.

To proof to sRGB you need to click "custom" and choose sRGB IEC61966-2.1 there.

In the export dialog you must check "embed profile". Otherwise the image is shown without color management. Why this is off by default is , again, a good question.

In short, you found the exact two settings I think are genuinely misleading in all of Photoshop's color settings. The first one you can just ignore, but the second one really confuses people no end, and the default behavior should be changed.

Of course, converting an sRGB file to ProPhoto, and then soft proofing to sRGB again is a meaningless exercise. You often read that you "should" use ProPhoto, but it has its drawbacks, and you should have some experience to use it effectively.

I would also not recommend "convert to working RGB", whatever that working RGB is. Profile conversions should only be performed when actually needed, and it's not often that you actually need ProPhoto. The recommended policy is always "preserve embedded profile".

[katjav97822606]

Hi, thanks for quick response.

If choose RGB IEC61966-2.1 I dont see any difference between no proofing and proofing. How could it be? Internet should be brighter and more saturated than profoto, right?

I think i wrote it not very clear, i start my process in profoto, i convert to sRGB only when i export to web. I dont embed profile is that even if i do, there is a chance that it won't be displayed correclty on some of the devices. so i thought if i soft proof to srgb and then just convert to srgb - at least i will see on my screen what other people most likely are to see.

I think I  could switch to adobe to ensure prints are ok, but working from start to finish in srgb sort of kills the whole idea of wide gamut monitor and shooting in raw...Don't you think?

thanks again!

[D Fosse]

No, there's no reason to restrict yourself to sRGB, but ProPhoto is mainly about preserving data without premature clipping. You obviously can't see all of it, ever. But the data are there, so that you can work with it until remapping into an output color space.

On a wide gamut monitor everything you see on screen is already clipped to Adobe RGB. That's the limit of what it can reproduce. So that's the effect of soft-proofing to sRGB - you see the clipping from Adobe RGB to sRGB. The clipping from ProPhoto to Adobe RGB has already happened.

On a standard gamut monitor, everything is already clipped to sRGB, so proofing to sRGB makes no sense at all.

Stripping the profile in order to "predict" what others will see on non-color managed setups is, well, a complete contradiction. Do you think all other systems behave the same way as your own, once you remove color management? No, they don't!!! - that's the exact problem that color management solves.

And with a wide gamut monitor you don't even have a choice. You must have full color management at all times! Without it, that monitor is useless, it doesn't even come close to showing what others see. What you see is completely misleading.

What you do is get the file right. That's your responsibility. How other people set up their systems is their responsibility. It's not your problem, it's theirs. As long as you get the file right, and include the profile so that those who do have color managed setups see it right, you have delivered on your end.

[katjav97822606]

ok, understood about include color profiles. i guess only one question remains - why don't i see any shift in color still when softproofing on a wide gamut monitor? surely, if i use either adobe or profoto as a working space and soft proofing to internet - there should be some change in brightness/saturation? thnx!

[D Fosse]

If you don't have any out-of-gamut colors, then no, you won't see any difference. You may well have an Adobe RGB file where all the colors would have fitted into sRGB, and then you won't see any difference.

You should understand that profile conversions or proofing should ideally never result in any color shift. That's the whole idea and purpose of color management in the first place - the color appearance should remain unchanged going from one color space to another.

All you should ever see, is gamut clipping of very saturated colors when going from a large color space to a smaller one. Then that particular color is clipped to the gamut boundary, the most saturated color of that hue that is contained and reproducible within that smaller space.

A color that is outside Adobe RGB can only exist in ProPhoto. But understand that we aren't talking about "rich" color here - we're talking about colors that are so intense they almost hurt the eye. You never see such colors in real life, or only in very rare, special circumstances.

That's why I usually say that you don't need ProPhoto. That's not the reason it's used. ProPhoto is mainly used to handle processing artifacts, to deal with them until you figure out what to do. Try to open an Adobe RGB file on your wide gamut monitor and dial saturation all the way up. If that's not enough saturation for you, then you "need" ProPhoto.