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Cannot adjust "space after" for TOC Style

Community Beginner ,
Nov 09, 2017 Nov 09, 2017

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I am having trouble adjusting the "space after" a TOC title. I have a TOC for each chapter of a textbook that shows on the first page of the chapter. For some reason, in one chapter there is less space between the title and 1st entry than there is in other chapters. These pics are of my Master for First Page of a Chapter in each file. I prefer the spacing in the second one, but when I try to copy the Paragraph Style from one file to the other, it doesn't change the spacing. I have looked things over and cannot see a difference. Both are using the same TOC Style, and the same Object Style to create the text box. But nothing I do allows me to adjust the space after the TOC Chapter Title. I also cannot adjust the Inset Spacing on the bottom of the frame. I would love to add a little more space below the final text.

Any suggestions on where to look?

Screen Shot 2017-11-09 at 7.00.40 PM.png

Screen Shot 2017-11-09 at 7.01.09 PM.png

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correct answers 1 Correct answer

Community Expert , Nov 10, 2017 Nov 10, 2017

So the issue was that your 1-column text frame had mixed span settings. Spans are used to direct a paragraph to span multiple columns, and you can define space above and below.

TOC Chapter Title was set to Span 2.

Screenshot 2017-11-10 08.23.15.png

TOC L1 was set to None.

Screenshot 2017-11-10 08.23.30.png

The fix is to remove the span on TOC Chapter Title and redefine the style. With the spans set to none, you now have control over the spacing. (Chapter 2 didn't have the mixed spans—that's why it worked as expected.)

Screenshot 2017-11-10 08.23.56.png

The secondary question was on the spacing with in

...

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Community Expert ,
Nov 09, 2017 Nov 09, 2017

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Can you share those exact two screen shots but with your cursor in the chapter title text on the page, and switch the Control Panel to the ¶ view so that we can see the spacing values?

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Community Beginner ,
Nov 09, 2017 Nov 09, 2017

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Screen Shot 2017-11-09 at 10.58.42 PM.png

Screen Shot 2017-11-09 at 10.59.25 PM.png

Screen Shot 2017-11-09 at 11.02.52 PM.png

I don't think there are any character styles applied anywhere in the frame.

Screen Shot 2017-11-09 at 11.06.39 PM.png

Any changes I make in Space Before or Space After do not change anything in the frame.

It seems something is overriding, but I don't know where to look.

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Community Expert ,
Nov 10, 2017 Nov 10, 2017

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Are the 1.1 paras snapped to a baseline grid?

If not, can you share those two pages on Dropbox? You can post a link here (public) or via message (private).

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Community Beginner ,
Nov 10, 2017 Nov 10, 2017

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Is there another place I would have aligned them to the baseline grid besides the paragraph style options?

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Community Expert ,
Nov 10, 2017 Nov 10, 2017

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You can see if they are aligned as an override in the Control Panel:

Screenshot 2017-11-10 07.49.09.png

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Community Beginner ,
Nov 10, 2017 Nov 10, 2017

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They do not appear to be aligned. I sent you a message with a link to the files.

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Community Expert ,
Nov 10, 2017 Nov 10, 2017

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So the issue was that your 1-column text frame had mixed span settings. Spans are used to direct a paragraph to span multiple columns, and you can define space above and below.

TOC Chapter Title was set to Span 2.

Screenshot 2017-11-10 08.23.15.png

TOC L1 was set to None.

Screenshot 2017-11-10 08.23.30.png

The fix is to remove the span on TOC Chapter Title and redefine the style. With the spans set to none, you now have control over the spacing. (Chapter 2 didn't have the mixed spans—that's why it worked as expected.)

Screenshot 2017-11-10 08.23.56.png

The secondary question was on the spacing with in the frame. Because you have rounded corners, you can only set one inset value for all 4 sides (90˙ corners let you set the four sides independently.) Also, the alignment is set to vertical center, and the use of the the bevel shading, the text is sitting too low in the frame. Compare the two frames below—the only difference is that I set the alignment top on both and removed the fill on the second one. The insets are identical, but visually the top one looks imbalanced.

Screenshot 2017-11-10 08.34.50.png

So to counter the visual imbalance, I I would set the alignment to top and the manually increase the height of the frame until it looks balanced again.

Screenshot 2017-11-10 08.38.14.png

Hope that helps!

~Barb

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Community Beginner ,
Nov 10, 2017 Nov 10, 2017

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Thank you, Barb!

I think most of my problems have been created by creating new paragraph styles based on another style that gets changed later. I know now to be more careful about that! I was having a very difficult time tracking that down.

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Community Expert ,
Nov 10, 2017 Nov 10, 2017

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First of all, always happy to help.

Secondly, here's one more tip. In a book situation like this, when you have a chapter that is working correctly, you can sync the settings to the other chapters in the books. That would have fixed this, but we wouldn't have identified the underlying problem.

Scroll down to "Synchronize book documents" for more details:

Create book files with Adobe InDesign

Happy weekend!

~Barb

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Community Beginner ,
Nov 10, 2017 Nov 10, 2017

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Barb, I have tried that before but ran into some problems. Here is one more question that might help me clean it up. If you look in the Chapter 2 file, on the second page (10) that has a beveled box in the middle of the page, the object style on that box has an override on it that I cannot figure out what it is. If I remove it, the spacing messes up. So I know there is an error in my Object Style. How do I view what is being overriden? This is one thing that messes up if I synch my book.

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Community Expert ,
Nov 10, 2017 Nov 10, 2017

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Hi Paul. I see what is going on there as well. Unfortunately I just lost power so I can't send screenshots. But briefly that frame is using the new size and position controls in the object style. Plus it is anchored. I don't see any good reason to use these two features together. When I remove the sizing and position controls from the object style and re-anchor it correctly it works just fine.  I can come back this afternoon with more detail if you need it once my computers come back on.

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Community Beginner ,
Nov 10, 2017 Nov 10, 2017

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I create a lot of these boxes throughout the book and want as much as possible to be set in the Object Style so I do not have to manually adjust every time. I made these adjustments: Screen Shot 2017-11-10 at 12.59.15 PM.png

And that puts it in the right place. Then I went into Object Style and set Position to None in Size and Position Options.

Then in Anchored Object Options, I set them all the same as the above. This works on the file I saved for you (a copy of my original), but on my original, I still have an override! When I remove it the box jumps. I saved you another copy of my original file so you can see it.

Is there no way to see what the override is?

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Community Expert ,
Nov 10, 2017 Nov 10, 2017

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The overrides were baffling to me. They indicated left and right insets, which you can't possibly have because the rectangle has rounded corners.

Here's how I got it working:

  1. I selected the anchored frame and cut it. Then pasted it back on the page to break the anchor, and moved it to the pasteboard.
  2. I edited the style to remove both the size and position settings—you don't need them.
  3. In Text Frame Options > Baseline Options > Baseline=Ascent because although you had the alignment set to top, it was not at the top.
  4. Left text wrap on and pulled the box back into position.
  5. I re-anchored by Shift+dragging the blue anchor box to the bottom of the previous paragraph.
    Screenshot 2017-11-10 13.54.37.png
  6. I right-clicked on Highlighted Principle > Redefine Style

Overrides were gone. You should be good to go.

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Community Beginner ,
Nov 10, 2017 Nov 10, 2017

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May I ask HOW you were seeing what the overrides are?

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Community Expert ,
Nov 10, 2017 Nov 10, 2017

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Hover over the name in the Object Styles panel. Screenshot 2017-11-10 14.34.03.png tooltip.

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Community Beginner ,
Nov 10, 2017 Nov 10, 2017

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Thank you for all your patient help! This has helped a lot. You answered a lot of nagging questions.

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Community Expert ,
Nov 10, 2017 Nov 10, 2017

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Always happy to help.

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Community Expert ,
Nov 09, 2017 Nov 09, 2017

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Maybe you accidentally have a character style applied to one or the other?

Mike Witherell

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Community Expert ,
Nov 09, 2017 Nov 09, 2017

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Or, you do you have the frame set to Vertical Justification: Justify?

Screenshot 2017-11-09 19.05.32.png

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Community Expert ,
Nov 09, 2017 Nov 09, 2017

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Hi Barb!

Oooh. Good one. Maybe the OP has baseline grid locked on one of the two?

Mike Witherell

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Community Expert ,
Nov 09, 2017 Nov 09, 2017

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That's another possibility, Mike. (Oh, and hi Mike!)

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Community Expert ,
Nov 10, 2017 Nov 10, 2017

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Hi Mike from me, too, as I follow this thread

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