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Do you still hard-code using Dreamweaver?

Advocate ,
Nov 22, 2017 Nov 22, 2017

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In 2017 using Dreamweaver do you still hard-code your web design?

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Community Expert ,
Nov 22, 2017 Nov 22, 2017

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Yup.

Except I use CC2015 for that, CC2018's code view is too glitchy for my liking.

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Advocate ,
Nov 22, 2017 Nov 22, 2017

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What code do you hard code with?  What steps did you take to master hard coding? Are you a designer as well?

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Community Expert ,
Nov 22, 2017 Nov 22, 2017

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I manually code my sites in html, css, javascript and php.

Every now and again, I'll use an off the shelf third party script or extension if I'm in a time crunch or the client wants a specific plug-in.

Like Nancy, I find DW's code hinting to be faster than trying to use the UI's dialogue boxes for most things. Aside from a handful of extension developers, who truly spend the time needed to make the interface option faster, DW's a bit of a dog when it comes to clicking through options and menus.

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Community Expert ,
Nov 22, 2017 Nov 22, 2017

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AnotherMe  wrote

...What steps did you take to master hard coding? Are you a designer as well?


I started as a graphic designer and was eventually hired on at a company that used GoLive to make websites. As time went by and I couldn't find the "why" for something not working the way I wanted in the software, I started looking at code. The more code I learned, the more I found I didn't need the software to do things for me. GoLive was great for making something happen but terrible at making it happen efficiently.

When Adobe killed GL, I had enough html and css under my belt that moving to DW was a snap. The UI was decidedly "Macromedia" so I didn't like using it if I didn't have to. As a result, my coding skills got better. Then I came back to the forums. At that time, just around GL's death, this place was full of people asking how to do things that weren't built into DW. As I tried to help them, I was teaching myself how to do those things via code instead of clicking through the menu system hoping to find something similar to what they wanted.

It's nice not needing the program to get my work done. If the mood strikes me, I can happily plug along coding with Notepad and previewing in a browser with the free Filezilla for uploading. If it weren't for some of DW's site management tools, I probably wouldn't use it anymore either, but it comes free with a subscription to Photoshop, InDesign and Illustrator, so I might as well stick with it.

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Community Expert ,
Nov 22, 2017 Nov 22, 2017

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I also started in graphics & print design.  But for fun, I dabbled a little with Basic and later HTML.

The big turning point for me was learning to think less like a print designer and more like a coder.  The things we do in print do not always translate well to the web.  So comprises & adjustments must be made.

I still use paper and pen to draw rough web page layouts for phone, tablet and desktop which I then re-create with code in Dreamweaver.

Nancy O'Shea— Product User, Community Expert & Moderator
Alt-Web Design & Publishing ~ Web : Print : Graphics : Media

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LEGEND ,
Nov 22, 2017 Nov 22, 2017

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Dreamweaver, or any other editor, I always manually code a website, no html frameworks, extensions or plugins. I personally think it pays off to do so in respect of being able to manipulate coding to dance to your tune, others will disagree and go down the route of using front-end frameworks, extensions etc. Each to their own, whatever the individual think is best for themselves but dont expect me to endorse using front-end frameworks, plugins and extensions based on years of experience and now enjoying all the freedom that being a skilled coder affords you.

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Advocate ,
Nov 22, 2017 Nov 22, 2017

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Pardon my question, but my manually coding do you mean hard coding?

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LEGEND ,
Nov 22, 2017 Nov 22, 2017

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AnotherMe  wrote

Pardon my question, but my manually coding do you mean hard coding?

By 'hard coding' do you mean avoiding the DW helper panels and predominately 'design view', working the majority of the time in code view?

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Community Expert ,
Nov 22, 2017 Nov 22, 2017

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I mainly work in Code View with HTML, CSS, jQuery or JavaScript, PHP and SQL.

If I'm adding content to an existing site  layout, I occasionally use Design or Live View. 

I never use the CSS Designer Panels.  For me, code hinting and auto-completion are much faster than panels.

Nancy O'Shea— Product User, Community Expert & Moderator
Alt-Web Design & Publishing ~ Web : Print : Graphics : Media

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Community Expert ,
Nov 22, 2017 Nov 22, 2017

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being addict to pen and rought paper, and coming from the plastic arts, it's hard to find a digital tool under hands... yes having multiple screens , a wacom and a video/sound system near

so I don't use DW to code... it is not well adapted for my workflow.

Dw is a great and unique tool to manage projects, have a general view of web sites and being able to quickly patch here and there some glitchs, dispatch sources files to the appropriate tools (on that point, the definition of a basic text editor that has been removed is severely lacking)...

for coding purpose which is one of my own principal activity, I use sublime text or visual... surrounded by tools like emmet, sass, some gems and of course a php framework based on WP/MariaDB. I often use ultraedit studio which offers a range of organizational tools quite remarkable

most of the time much of the tasks are handle by gulp, grunt or npm

but as I said above, DW remains an essential tool for the management and quick start of projects.

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Community Expert ,
Nov 22, 2017 Nov 22, 2017

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It all boils down to using the right tool for the project at hand. Fortunately I find that I use Dreamweaver most of the time because it serves me best. With the inclusion of Less/Sass and Git along with extensions, I find that I am using other tools less and less. All we need now is a way to concatenate and minimise the JS files and we are home and hosed.

Wappler, the only real Dreamweaver alternative.

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LEGEND ,
Nov 23, 2017 Nov 23, 2017

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https://forums.adobe.com/people/B+i+r+n+o+u  wrote

I often use ultraedit studio which offers a range of organizational tools quite remarkable

Couldn't get on with that one myself, personally - so we all obviously have very different tastes and workflows.

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Community Expert ,
Nov 23, 2017 Nov 23, 2017

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I was using winmerge to compare files... but one day, it wasn't doing the job I was expecting... I do'nt remember what it was, neither I don't remember whose gave me the link to ultra edit... but at that time I gave it a try for the comparing features... woaw... I was impressed... and since, I've bought the studio ,and when I need to compare, folders, files, archives, PDF, docx... anything ultra edit is there around the corner...

then I discovered ultra find... and woaw again... so amazing (it find duplicate files as it eat its breakfast).... so depending on the task, I swap in between Bridge and Ultra Edit... but here again it is still around the corner...

the client FTP is not much than filezilla (at least for what I need from it), as much fast than FZ... (but any way soooooo faster that the DW's one) and ice on cake... it is sync with all the studio, and so between the previous results (from compare and find)...

but I don't try to convince anyone... I was just saying that everyday it save me hours and hours when clients call and send me project to rescue

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LEGEND ,
Nov 23, 2017 Nov 23, 2017

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i hand code when I need to make my own... I use Dreamweaver when I need to fix someone elses code

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LEGEND ,
Nov 23, 2017 Nov 23, 2017

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I go on holiday for a week, and find that no one uses Dw, or is planning on moving to Wappler.

Now to the OP's question, (as i understand it).

Hard coding i interpretate as static code, with nothing dynamic included, which i will do if required, but Dw is now for me dead, (Adobe should take a good look at the roadmap, as it is alienating many long time users of Dw).

Reading other posts, i begin to wonder if we should change the Dw forum format, as I am uncertain about the seriousness of it continuing as it currently is. Even those who profess to being Dw supporters, members of CAB and pre-release are in both this and other discussions presenting two different opinions, here they support Dw, in other discussions, (and sometime those who are honest also in this one) are looking to move to another program, or already have.

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LEGEND ,
Nov 23, 2017 Nov 23, 2017

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pziecina  wrote

I go on holiday for a week, and find that no one uses Dw, or is planning on moving to Wappler

Im already finding the timing of that a bit of a joke. Wasnt the public beta meant to come out 10 days after the closed beta ended or did the closed beta gets extended and then extended again until it got extended again after most of the program was rewritten because the beta testers, who were all quite old, suddenly died and the developers of said program thought it might be a good idea to include  bootstrap 5, which wasnt even developed yet, so it all became very confusing and the project was put on hold for thanks giving at which point everyone got a bit bored and got on with their lives? Is that the Wappler which is being referred to here or is it Bootstrap 4 in disguise with a couple of limited extensions thrown in for good measure?

Happy days are hear again...

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LEGEND ,
Nov 23, 2017 Nov 23, 2017

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The entire Wappler and Dw development programs, are themeslves becomming a joke.

Wappler is now so far behind, it is slowly becoming another of those 'out-of-date' by the time it is released ideas.

As for Dw, many of those in the Dw CAB/pre-release are part of the Wappler closed beta, so i don't think Dw's development future looks good either.

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Community Expert ,
Nov 23, 2017 Nov 23, 2017

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many of those in the Dw CAB/pre-release are part of the Wappler closed beta

Not true, I think that Brad and I are the only ones.

As a side note, I get upset when I see false or greatly exaggerated statements while pretending that it is the truth. It makes the author of such statements unbelievable.

Wappler, the only real Dreamweaver alternative.

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LEGEND ,
Nov 23, 2017 Nov 23, 2017

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What is unbelievable is the developers obviously of said program thought they were ready or almost ready to release it if you believe the rubbish posted about it by them saying closed beta would be for a period of 10 days and then a public release would follow shortly. All l can assume is the original closed beta must have been poor for it to be delayed this long if they thought they were almost ready. I said it would not be released anytime soon and yet again l am proven correct.

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Community Expert ,
Nov 23, 2017 Nov 23, 2017

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Je lult!

Wappler, the only real Dreamweaver alternative.

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LEGEND ,
Nov 23, 2017 Nov 23, 2017

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BenPleysier  wrote

As a side note, I get upset when I see false or greatly exaggerated statements while pretending that it is the truth. It makes the author of such statements unbelievable.

Yes it does Ben.

If you go to a couple of the other Adobe forums that are interested in web design, and other forums that are not Adobe, you will find more than a small insignificant number of those mentioning Wappler also profess to being in the Dw pre-release, comparing Dw and Wappler, (even in beta) and as you say, yourself and Brad are both testing Wappler and are members of CAB.

Note - CAB and pre-release are two seperate groups. CAB is by invite only, and pre-release is now open to just about anyone.

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Enthusiast ,
Nov 23, 2017 Nov 23, 2017

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Hello designers, coders, developers

I am so excited to see people are discussing something which they have never seen, but thanks for the 'feedback' anyway.

Just a note from DMXzone/Wappler team: Wappler is everything but not far behind, a joke or out of date

Postponing public beta (in fact only once) was just a decision we made, as we actually want to collect more feedback from the selected beta testers, instead of collecting feedback from people never really touched DW and this decision has nothing to do with going behind schedule, so your suggestions are not even close to the reality

Even more - one thing which got us extremely excited and happy were the 500+ people which we talked to, demonstrated to and which had hands on experience with Wappler on our stand at this year's Web Summit conference. We received valuable feedback from them, and their reactions to the product also solidly confirmed we are going into the right direction. So, we may not be posting a lot about Wappler, but that is because we are busy working on it.

Regards,

Teodor Kuduschiev

DMXzone.com

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LEGEND ,
Nov 24, 2017 Nov 24, 2017

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https://forums.adobe.com/people/Teodor+K  wrote

Hello designers, coders, developers

I am so excited to see people are discussing something which they have never seen, but thanks for the 'feedback' anyway.

Just a note from DMXzone/Wappler team: Wappler is everything but not far behind, a joke or out of date

Postponing public beta (in fact only once) was just a decision we made, as we actually want to collect more feedback from the selected beta testers, instead of collecting feedback from people never really touched DW and this decision has nothing to do with going behind schedule, so your suggestions are not even close to the reality

Even more - one thing which got us extremely excited and happy were the 500+ people which we talked to, demonstrated to and which had hands on experience with Wappler on our stand at this year's Web Summit conference. We received valuable feedback from them, and their reactions to the product also solidly confirmed we are going into the right direction. So, we may not be posting a lot about Wappler, but that is because we are busy working on it.

Regards,

Teodor Kuduschiev

DMXzone.com

So why didn't you just shut up until you had collected the information from the first closed beta period? Obviously whoever announced a public beta would follow shortly after a 10 day closed one was misinformed or just didnt realise the product was no where near ready.

Anyway it's not going to be released this year, unless your marketing team is crazy as well,  so happy Christmas.

All I'll add is it better be a lot better than something like Bootstrap Studio, which it sound like, with some additional limited dynamic capabilities. Only time will tell but it might wel be just another application in a graveyard of applications aimed at non-coders.

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Enthusiast ,
Nov 24, 2017 Nov 24, 2017

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Well, simple - we didn't shut up, because our plans have changed in the meantime

I just love how everything is being judged in this forum by 4 people providing their valuable feedback for products they have no idea about

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