1 2 Previous Next 40 Replies Latest reply: Mar 18, 2015 3:11 PM by R Neil Haugen RSS

    SPEEDGRADE RENDER ISSUE - Flickering

    pslettershome Community Member

      I'm having an issue with rendering properly in SpeedGrade.

       

      The grade is finished, but every time I render it generates random noticable flickering in the results. The flickers occur on every few frames in an irregular pattern and consist of a saturation decrease on the frame.

       

      The most frustrating thing about it is the random nature which it occurs. For example, if I render out an entire timeline it might occur on certain clips, while rendering those clips separately may alleviate the issue...though rendering those same individual clips once again may cause some of the results to flicker once more. In short, I can't render the whole project and rendering the separate elements (in addition to being very tedious) is a crapshoot. I suppose with enough rendering I'll eventually get enough usable clips to finish the product, but the point here is whats happening.

       

      The project is pretty simple. Mostly Primary/Secondary Color layers, a LUT (cinema + 3strip), sharpening, and masked Gaussean blur on the edges of a few clips. All effects and color are on separate layers above the Source layer.

       

      First, I tried messing with the order of layers and even turning some off, but the flicker remained (randomly) in most cases without completely removing the grade all together.

       

      I then thought the issue might be in the quicktime render, so I tried many flavors of DPX, TIF etc. Flicker still in every render, though on different clips. Again unpredictable.

       

      Moved to maybe an embedded alpha in the source material might be to blame. The original project used 1920x1080 PRORES444 source material, so I retranscoded and tried rebuilding the reels with PRORESHQ, TIF Sequences and even the original Red R3d's. Random flicker still present on render.

       

      I then exported each clip out separately thinking that the issue might be how speedgrade handles memory. Each clip rendered quickly. There seemed to be less clips with the flickering but still there. Another similar clip by clip render would yield different results each time.

       

      After trying to troubleshoot with several very experienced visual tech guys and professional colorists yesterday, at least one other person who had the time to experiment experienced the same flickering in their results, but was also unable to determine why it was happening.

       

      Now I think this may be some other non-source, non-footage issue. Maybe a graphics card incompatibility or bug of some sort.

       

      Here is my system specs for reference:

       

      Model Name:          Mac Pro

      Model Identifier:          MacPro2,1

      Processor Name:          Quad-Core Intel Xeon

      Processor Speed:          3 GHz

      Number of Processors:          2

      Total Number of Cores:          8

      L2 Cache (per Processor):          8 MB

      Memory:          18 GB

      Bus Speed:          1.33 GHz

       

      ATI Radeon HD 5770:

      Chipset Model:          ATI Radeon HD 5770

      Type:          GPU

      Bus:          PCIe

      Slot:          Slot-1

      VRAM (Total):          1024 MB

        • 1. Re: SPEEDGRADE RENDER ISSUE - Flickering
          3B Digital Studios Community Member

          I have the same issue as above.  My project was cut in Premiere and the sequence sent to Speedgrade (DPX files).  After my grading, all renders have a random flicker as stated above.

           

          Machine: Dell XPS

          Win. 7 64x

          Processors: i7

          Speed.3.2 Ghz

          RAM: 8 GB

           

          ATI Radeon 4800

          1024 MB

          • 2. Re: SPEEDGRADE RENDER ISSUE - Flickering
            Mr Eric J

            Same issue as well.

            • 3. Re: SPEEDGRADE RENDER ISSUE - Flickering
              pslettershome Community Member

              I recieved a lot of flak for this online with folks saying it was a graphics card issue, plugin issue, alpha issue, etc.

               

              Its none of those. I've tested. I believe its a bug...and now I know at least 5 folks with the same issue.

               

              Talking to some folks I hear that its being worked on and a patch will come soon. Hope this is true. Of all the new products in CS6 Speedgrade is the one that is playing giant killer. If it works its got a life ahead of it. If not, its gonna be a two year game of catchup.

              • 4. Re: SPEEDGRADE RENDER ISSUE - Flickering
                Hoptocopter

                I'm having the same issue.  I called Adobe Support and they said I'd need to pay for elevated support to tell them the software isn't working correctly.  I asked to speak to the manager and the manager responded by saying I had to fill out this form:

                 

                https://www.adobe.com/cfusion/mmform/index.cfm?name=wishform

                 

                So in the meantime, I have a graded music video that will need to be re-graded elsewhere unless someone can tell us a workaround!

                • 5. Re: SPEEDGRADE RENDER ISSUE - Flickering
                  nanderson21

                  I've had the same issue too. I believe that you can save all your looks in speed grade and open them in photoshop, premiere, or after effects and render out from one of them. That is what I was told at NAB.

                  • 6. Re: SPEEDGRADE RENDER ISSUE - Flickering
                    Lin Sebastian Kayser Adobe Employee

                    Thanks for your comprehensive bug report - this is an intermittent issue that we were able to reproduce. There will be an upcoming patch release (6.0.1) that addresses this error.

                     

                    Lin

                    • 7. Re: SPEEDGRADE RENDER ISSUE - Flickering
                      Mr Eric J Community Member

                      I'm glad you were able to reproduce it Lin!

                      • 8. Re: SPEEDGRADE RENDER ISSUE - Flickering
                        3B Digital Studios Community Member

                        Is there an approximate timeline when the update would be available?

                         

                        Thanks

                        • 9. Re: SPEEDGRADE RENDER ISSUE - Flickering
                          Dennis Weinmann Adobe Employee

                          We are working on a fix but can't make any promises about a specific date or specific fixes. Please stay tuned over the next few weeks.

                          Thanks.

                          Dennis

                          • 10. Re: SPEEDGRADE RENDER ISSUE - Flickering
                            thebox.com.au

                            A couple of weeks will not solve the fact that I have got half way through a project which I need to go to air next week! So I worked through a solution that might help everyone in the short term.

                             

                            I exported my Premiere Pro CS6 edit out as a Hi-Resolution MOV. I then pulled this into AfterEffects CS6. Under "Utility" in the 'Effects & Presets' drag and drop the "Apply Color LUT" effect over your MOV. This will open a dialogue and allow you to use a 3DL file.

                             

                            In SpeedGrade you can output your grading as a .look file and this also includes a number of other formats including this 3DL file which you can also use as a Color Lookup Adjustment layer in Photoshop to fashion your stills in the same way as your footage.

                             

                            Now Render out the result in AfterEffects to your desired format and you have your final graded file.

                             

                            I also used Adobe's Media Encoder to render out of Premiere and also to do a second version of my hi-resolution AfterEffects output to a lower quality MPEG preview.

                             

                            The combination works really well and should give everyone the output they need.

                             

                            Hope this is helpful for you.

                             

                            Scott Robinson

                            Director

                            Jack in the box

                            • 11. Re: SPEEDGRADE RENDER ISSUE - Flickering
                              alextvde

                              same problem here. random flickering after export. doesn't matter which format etc. that's really frustrating, after spending hours and hours for grading just to find out that this program does not work properly...

                              having a mac mini, osx 10.7.3, 2,7GHz i7, 8GB RAM (1333 DDR3), Radeon HD 6630M 256MB, 256GD SSD and 750GB 7200rpm WD.

                              hope that you guys will find a solution soon!

                              thanks,

                              alex

                              • 12. Re: SPEEDGRADE RENDER ISSUE - Flickering
                                Jeff Gatesman

                                Thanks Scott, for the work-around. Wish I didn't have to that but I've been experiencing the same issue, and some others: I've also tried to render out to different resolutions. A couple fo times the render finished but no file was actually written to my output location, and a couple of times the render would just stop on one frame, so there would seem to a be a freeze frame for the rest of the timeline. This, of course, did not flicker.

                                 

                                Mac Pro 4,1 2X2.6 GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon

                                12GB RAM

                                OSX 10.7.4

                                NVIDIA GeForce GT 120

                                 

                                Jeff Gatesman

                                Rocket 88 Studios

                                • 13. Re: SPEEDGRADE RENDER ISSUE - Flickering
                                  MalcomMcWhirter

                                  Hi

                                   

                                  Same kind of issue here too.

                                  I had opened this thread with some examples of what it looks like.

                                   

                                   

                                  http://forums.adobe.com/message/4416935#4416935

                                   

                                  Kind regards to all and hope a solution pops up soon, I was relying on SG to finalize a commecial,

                                  I wouldn't like to have to reprocess via an other app ( Nuke will do it for me as FrameCycler is part of it)

                                   

                                  Leigh

                                  • 14. Re: SPEEDGRADE RENDER ISSUE - Flickering
                                    Tony Pfau

                                    I too having same issues, random white flashing in the renders from speedgrade..  I got last CS6 update, but don't know if it had the above mentioned patch since it keeps doing it, did the patch come out yet?   I did have less of it sending out .dfx render, but still, confounded.   I've been useing MBP, 2.2 Quad I7 with AMD Radeon HD 6750M 1024 MB.

                                    • 15. Re: SPEEDGRADE RENDER ISSUE - Flickering
                                      jkbucks Community Member

                                      I'm actually having this problem now, a few years later. Any luck with some workarounds?

                                      • 16. Re: SPEEDGRADE RENDER ISSUE - Flickering
                                        thebox.com.au Community Member

                                        Hi jkbucks

                                         

                                        If you refer to my fix above, this will still work.

                                         

                                        If you're on the Creative Cloud, the Render Engine is even more robust now and while it's annoying to have to export the files and deal with 4 seperate applications, it will give you the final graded look you're seeking.

                                         

                                        So create your 3DL file in SpeedGrade, export (using MediaEncoder) a hi-res (no compression, no loss) file from Premiere, open the file sin AfterEffects, apply the LUT to the imported hi-res MOV and then use Media Encoder to export again as per your needs. You can always export again in a hi-res format to pull it back into Premier to do any additional overlays etc (although I would tend to use AfterEffects for this type of thing in any case).

                                         

                                        More detailed instructions are furtehr up if you need them.

                                         

                                        Hope this helps.

                                         

                                        Cheers

                                        Scott Robinson

                                        Director

                                        Jack in the box

                                        • 17. Re: SPEEDGRADE RENDER ISSUE - Flickering
                                          avrnosn

                                          Still having issues. I see this post started 2 years ago. I'm on CC 2014 latest updates, and still having issues. It's weird that I can't pinpoint what it is, cause after turning random layers on and off and trying a myriad other things, it seems to have solved the issue. But then I go into the master sequence where this is nested and the problem's as bad as ever!

                                          • 18. Re: SPEEDGRADE RENDER ISSUE - Flickering
                                            Dennis Weinmann Adobe Employee

                                            Can you give us some details of your project (input,resolution,grading,luts,output format etc.) + system specs please ?

                                            • 19. Re: SPEEDGRADE RENDER ISSUE - Flickering
                                              avrnosn Community Member

                                              Input is AVCHD, 1920x1080, 23.976fps, outputting to PhotoJpeg. Working on Windows 7 (64bit), 16 Gb RAM, Nvidia card, idk more (I'm a native mac user, don't know how to check specs on my work computer). I tried replacing the footage with ProRes equivalent for one clip to no avail.

                                               

                                               

                                               

                                              The issue appeared when I turned on the Adjustment layer containing the filmstock preset "Kodak 5218 Kodak 2383 (by Adobe).cube". Within SpeedGrade at first I saw the flickering, then it only appeared in PP and renders. trip to SpeedGrade it seems to have come back. When I turn off the adjustment layer problem disappears.  EDIT: I take that back. The problem still appears, albeit less noticeable. Color flickering is still visible on a standard Primary correction. It's just more noticeable when applying the filmstock on top of that cause of the brightness shifts as well.

                                              • 20. Re: SPEEDGRADE RENDER ISSUE - Flickering
                                                Luke900

                                                I am having the exact same problem on an entirely different system than OP:

                                                 

                                                Windows 7 Professional

                                                i7 3770k

                                                GTX 670

                                                Premiere CC 2014

                                                Speedgrade CC 2014

                                                Corsair vengeance 2133mhz ram

                                                 

                                                Editing canon DSLR 1920x1080 footage in .mov container. Only one edit layer on the footage from speedgrade CC2014.

                                                 

                                                Only way to fix it was to close the project and re-open, delete render files and re-render and it seemed to work. Funnily, deleting the render files without first exiting made no difference. Also - exactly like the other poster - it happened after render times dramatically slowed for no apparent reason. Hanging on individual frames, or processing 1 frame every 10 seconds.  On re-load of the project no such behavior was exhibited.

                                                 

                                                A similar problem had occured in 2012, has it returned?

                                                • 21. Re: SPEEDGRADE RENDER ISSUE - Flickering
                                                  Luke900 Community Member

                                                  UPDATE: Adding warp stabilizer cause the flickering to come back!!!

                                                  • 22. Re: SPEEDGRADE RENDER ISSUE - Flickering
                                                    Luke900 Community Member

                                                    UPDATE: Exporting with Adobe Media Encoder to .mpg 1920x1080 29.97fps maximum resolution explorted cleanly. Rendering in Premiere Pro had problem but export via Encoder did not flicker.

                                                    • 23. Re: SPEEDGRADE RENDER ISSUE - Flickering
                                                      Luke900 Community Member

                                                      UPDATE: Exporting with Encoder but as an H.264 file DID produce flicker, where MPEG2 format did not.

                                                      • 24. Re: SPEEDGRADE RENDER ISSUE - Flickering
                                                        dbeaty2 Community Member

                                                        Having same issue here. Also getting crashes on "render". I am using a source DVCProHD clip and rendering the graded clip to the preset Apple Pro Res 444.  You can see the flicker effect here horizontal lines:

                                                         

                                                        Screen Shot 2014-09-18 at 2.09.39 PM.jpg

                                                         

                                                        Another issue, when I "save" the "look" it isn't saving what is on the screen. IOW, if I finish grading and save the project. Then save the look, the thumbnail is not even close to what is on the screen. If I "save" the look and immediately select that saved look it completley and randomly changes the grading, sometimes turning red, sometimes green. So these are not working for my in After Effects.

                                                         

                                                        This is the "look" I get when I save the above grade"

                                                         

                                                        Screen Shot 2014-09-18 at 2.14.48 PM.jpg

                                                         

                                                        Speedgrade CC 2014

                                                        Intel Mac Pro

                                                        OS 10.8.5

                                                        16 GB Ram

                                                         

                                                        Here is the top of crash report right after hitting "render"

                                                         

                                                        Process:         sgmacosx [4198]

                                                        Path:            /Applications/Adobe SpeedGrade CC 2014/Adobe SpeedGrade CC 2014.app/Contents/MacOS/sgmacosx

                                                        Identifier:      adobe.SpeedGrade

                                                        Version:         8.0.1 (8.0.1)

                                                        Build Info:      Adobe SpeedGrade CC 2014-0~7

                                                        Code Type:       X86-64 (Native)

                                                        Parent Process:  launchd [205]

                                                        User ID:         502

                                                         

                                                        Date/Time:       2014-09-18 14:02:09.129 -0400

                                                        OS Version:      Mac OS X 10.8.5 (12F45)

                                                        Report Version:  10

                                                         

                                                        Anonymous UUID:                      9C3EF4FE-EA8C-E833-5EAC-A4F4D909664F

                                                         

                                                        Crashed Thread:  28

                                                         

                                                        Exception Type:  EXC_CRASH (SIGABRT)

                                                        Exception Codes: 0x0000000000000000, 0x0000000000000000

                                                         

                                                        Application Specific Information:

                                                        *** error for object 0x16a396808: incorrect checksum for freed object - object was probably modified after being freed.

                                                        • 25. Re: SPEEDGRADE RENDER ISSUE - Flickering
                                                          Dolce Videos

                                                          I have the same problem. warp stabilizer ~ flickering.

                                                          • 26. Re: SPEEDGRADE RENDER ISSUE - Flickering
                                                            R Neil Haugen MVP

                                                            Using what format/codecs exporting to what format/codecs, on what system specs and program particulars?

                                                            • 27. Re: SPEEDGRADE RENDER ISSUE - Flickering
                                                              pmnewbery1966 Community Member

                                                              i am getting the same problem, if i use speedgrade and then export or use encoder I get a noticeable flicker.

                                                              If I grade footage first in davinci, then edit in premiere and export no issues, it has had added an extra stage to my work flow, but as present I am finding the output from speed grade / premiere combination very poor quality. (in both H.264 and MPEG2)

                                                               

                                                              current system

                                                              dell xps 7100

                                                              8.00gb

                                                              Radeon HD6700

                                                              • 28. Re: SPEEDGRADE RENDER ISSUE - Flickering
                                                                R Neil Haugen MVP

                                                                Hmm ... ok, back in the studio, don't know if this continued for you. First, have you tried the "new" update, which they hope fixed a number of issues? Sorry that this hasn't been working for you, it would drive me totally bananas ...

                                                                 

                                                                Neil

                                                                • 29. Re: SPEEDGRADE RENDER ISSUE - Flickering
                                                                  dbeaty2 Community Member

                                                                  I have not used DVCPRO HD footage in a while, but I can report that Apple Pro Res footage works fine with the latest Update to Speedgrade CC 2014. No flickering or lines. Need to test it with some DVCPro HD stuff.

                                                                  • 30. Re: SPEEDGRADE RENDER ISSUE - Flickering
                                                                    R Neil Haugen MVP

                                                                    Glad to hear the latest update has you working at least in ProRes. And from the comments of Dennis on here, I think "the team" would want badly to hear if your DVCPRO HD footage is having problems. They've fixed some things, but others are still running and hiding pretty efficiently. They need to run 'em down ...

                                                                     

                                                                    Neil

                                                                    • 31. Re: SPEEDGRADE RENDER ISSUE - Flickering
                                                                      twitchbenjamin08 Community Member

                                                                      Hey, did you ever figure out how to do this?  I tried to open a Look in premiere's export settings, like I was instructed to do, but I could not find the Effects tab in the export settings.  As if I didn't even have an effects tab. 

                                                                      Just curious!

                                                                      • 32. Re: SPEEDGRADE RENDER ISSUE - Flickering
                                                                        twitchbenjamin08 Community Member

                                                                        Just out of curiosity, I've been opening a movie file in premiere and, using the "Apply Color LUT" function, I can simply open the saved custom look instead of exporting a look as a 3DL.  Is there an advantage to using a 3DL over the saved look?  Or is what I'm doing ok?

                                                                        • 33. Re: SPEEDGRADE RENDER ISSUE - Flickering
                                                                          R Neil Haugen MVP

                                                                          I'll be back on in a bit after checking a couple things. Been out of the shop all day today.

                                                                           

                                                                          Neil

                                                                          • 34. Re: SPEEDGRADE RENDER ISSUE - Flickering
                                                                            R Neil Haugen MVP

                                                                            For the question of how to apply a Look/Lut at export-out, here's the way to do so in the current 8.2.0(65) build of PrPro:

                                                                            1) The Effects tab is to the left of the Video tab that is typically highlighted when you invoke the export dialog box. Select that ...

                                                                            2) Lumetri/Look/LUT is the top tick-box: when you check this ...

                                                                            3) You can then use the drop-down to the right to choose anything either that comes with the program (the basic built-in Looks) or that you've bought or created. The built-in ones show on the pop-up, and if you choose "Select ... " from that list, it pops a navigating window for you to go to your Looks/LUT's and pick one. It's handy to put your Looks/LUT's "library" folder where you can easily get there from here ...

                                                                             

                                                                            A "3DL" is a 3-D LUT, as far as many other programs would consider. There are several different formats that LUT's come in, such as CUBE, ilut, itx ... a SpeedGrade Look is just another form of 3-D LUT.
                                                                            There should be no difference in using either a 3DL or saved or builti-in Look. Whichever is quicker & floats your boat, so to speak.

                                                                             

                                                                            Neil

                                                                            • 35. Re: SPEEDGRADE RENDER ISSUE - Flickering
                                                                              twitchbenjamin08 Community Member

                                                                              Thanks for your reply Neil.  Unfortunately that is the bulk of my problems see, that Effects tab is simply NOT in my export settings.  It is just simply not there.  Is this a cs6/CC difference?

                                                                              • 36. Re: SPEEDGRADE RENDER ISSUE - Flickering
                                                                                R Neil Haugen MVP

                                                                                Actually, that is probably a CS6/CC difference. Being as the whole nature of the CC model is vastly tighter real-time integration of PrPro with Ae, Sg, and Audition, I believe that tab was included in the first iteration of CC. Sorry, hadn't though to that. So no, from a CS6 PrPro, you can't add a LUT/Look on export. You can from choosing the Lumetri *effect* within PrPro, or by going to Ae CS6 and using that program's LUT capabilities. From what I recall, I felt that PrPro's abilities to utilize LUT's was somewhat limited, but then I was a total noob (I'm a more upgraded noob now!) and it may have had capabilities I was just too dumb to find.

                                                                                 

                                                                                Neil

                                                                                • 37. Re: SPEEDGRADE RENDER ISSUE - Flickering
                                                                                  twitchbenjamin08 Community Member

                                                                                  Yeah, I read a little about the Lumetri effect but it's only on CC.  I'm slowly starting to realize every day that an upgrade is becoming more and more evident.  Thanks!

                                                                                  • 38. Re: SPEEDGRADE RENDER ISSUE - Flickering
                                                                                    R Neil Haugen MVP

                                                                                    Have to tell you ... I started during mid-CS6 cycle. Trying to figure out color correction in PrPro ... yuck, did NOT get on with Fast or 3-Way corrector. I was told about Ae having both decent curves (which I'd used heavily in stills work) and what ... Colorista or whatever it was? ... so for a while I did most grading in Ae, shuttled back to PrPro. Tried SpeedGrade ... woa, that was ... different. But was told to get the books by Alexis van Hurkman and another by Hullfish & Fowler. So I did, and found how a grading program is designed to work, and realized Sg was actually very good at this stuff.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Um ... but the connection between Sg & PrPro in the CS6 model was ... difficult. Either massive DPX sequences (every single frame a separate full-size jpeg on disc) or dealing with EDL, conforming, and rendering out of Sg. Which for an experienced video/cine professional isn't anything harder than snoring when asleep. For a noob ... there were problems in plenty for any mis-step.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Then ... CC ... and the whole Direct Link process which (for the things it works for) is slick. Easier than the Dynamic Link between PrPro & Ae. No exporting of EDL's & conforming in Sg. No transcoding, no proxies, a few seconds to jump a sequence into Sg to grade, a few seconds back into PrPro. Wow.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Now, the promise has been at times a bit more than the reality ... but for many workflows, it doth work beautifully. Heck, the current Sg scopes alone are about worth the update!

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Neil

                                                                                    • 39. Re: SPEEDGRADE RENDER ISSUE - Flickering
                                                                                      twitchbenjamin08 Community Member

                                                                                      Yeah, I'm currently dealing with everything you just explained with cs6.  I've been using the creative suite since CS3 and was relieved to see they added a color grading tool in CS6.  I'm kind of new to Sg but I've been cramming with some Lynda.com tuts.  They are amazingly helpful.  But, yeah, I'm finding SgCS6 has all the bugs and problems you would expect to find with a first gen application.  Looks like they improved greatly with CC.

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