26 Replies Latest reply on May 18, 2012 2:25 PM by artistdomain

    AVCHD direct to Bluray?

    artistdomain Level 1

      Hi, Anyone,

       

      Is it possible to export AVCHD files to Encore with no transcode? 

       

      Is it true I could be burning files directly out of my AVCHD cameras - directly to BDR as AVCHD. And it's compatible on all, or very nearly all, players. Or so I've been led to believe for a number of years now.   

       

      Simply "dynamic link" an entire sequence (or work area) right on over to Encore and just burn that sucker!  Right away. You can have simple menus, etc.also.

       

      Right?    

       

      Where is that feature, please?  In CS6 only? With some third-party app?  I'm on Windows 7, CS5.5 and a Matrox Mini + Max encoding.

       

      Being able to author to BD5 and BD9 would be nice too.

       

      Can someone please elighten me a little on these things. 

       

      Thanks!

       

      wsmith

        • 1. Re: AVCHD direct to Bluray?
          Harm Millaard Level 7

          Not possible.

          • 2. Re: AVCHD direct to Bluray?
            artistdomain Level 1

            Thanks but in recent reading of new Adobe literature on CS6 I've learned that export without transcoding is possible.

             

            Are you sure CS6 doesn't offer it?

             

            Thanks

            • 3. Re: AVCHD direct to Bluray?
              Jim_Simon Level 8

              What did you read and where?

              • 4. Re: AVCHD direct to Bluray?
                artistdomain Level 1

                I google last night and saw something from Adobe on it in CS6.

                 

                This very functionality has been in the Bluray spec all along. I could definitely see using it quite a lot probably. Think of the time saved. I mean, come on...

                 

                Why it's not been available in Premiere is a confounding mystery. But maybe it's in CS6?.   

                • 5. Re: AVCHD direct to Bluray?
                  Jim_Simon Level 8

                  I google last night and saw something from Adobe on it in CS6.

                   

                  That's not very specific.  If you could find that web page and post a link...

                  • 6. Re: AVCHD direct to Bluray?
                    artistdomain Level 1

                    Hi Jim, doing that is only going to reiterate what I've said. Apparently you can export without transcoding but after that disclosure things are vague regarding a direct burn to Bluray.  

                     

                    I'm on CS5.5 so hopefully I could hear from any CS6 users with a BDR burner, please. Only takes a quick test look. Put some native AVCHD footage in a matching AVCHD sequence. Attempt to bring it into Encore as-is. attempt to burn as-is. Or just see if you could without actually burning a disc. Or anyone who has done this using whatever besides Adobe.     

                    • 7. Re: AVCHD direct to Bluray?
                      Harm Millaard Level 7

                      AVCHD is not in the BR spec. EOS.

                      • 8. Re: AVCHD direct to Bluray?
                        Jim_Simon Level 8

                        Jim, doing that is only going to reiterate what I've said.

                         

                        Possibly.  But at this point, I have only your word for it, and I suspect you may have misunderstood something.  So if I can read the same thing you've read, I might be able to help.

                        • 9. Re: AVCHD direct to Bluray?
                          artistdomain Level 1

                          HI Harm, Obviously I'm no expert if I haven't done it yet. I've been led to believe in this...for these many years since the introduction of AVCHD and Bluray.

                           

                          I am reading a bunch of stuff about it. It is indeed permittable and now I've just read in Adobe's help doc for Encore: http://help.adobe.com/en_US/encore/cs/using/encore_cs5_help.pdf

                           

                          that even my version of Encore does not transcode Bluray legal (according to the spec). page 177.

                           

                          So now I understand that the problem has been that Premiere CS5.5 doesn't have a way to export a AVCHD file that meets the Bluray spec without transcoding it. Thus some other thirdparty apps were suggested to serve in a workaround. Corel's NLE was mentioned as it allows editing and exporting of AVCHD files without encoding.      

                            

                          Maybe Premiere CS6 now allows the same thing?

                          • 10. Re: AVCHD direct to Bluray?
                            Harm Millaard Level 7

                            Basically the problem boils down to what kind of fuel can you put in your car. Is it only unleaded 98 octane gas, or can you put in diesel fuel? Or LPG? Normally the answer is quite simple, stick to the fuel the manufacturer advises. AVCHD is not normally used for BD-R. H.264 or MPEG2 is. And that means transcoding.

                            • 11. Re: AVCHD direct to Bluray?
                              artistdomain Level 1

                              Harm, I think you are going to fail to see the boat I'm looking for.

                               

                              AVCHD and Bluray were both co-developed to be just that compatible. Some people are currently doing exactly what I want to do. But what I saw on Google was somewhat dated and involved about 8 different freeware utils and other paid apps like Corel's NLE.

                               

                              I'm hoping it's simpler now - and just built-in to CS6 - cause I don't need it that bad to fool around with too much right now.   

                              • 12. Re: AVCHD direct to Bluray?
                                Keith_Clark Level 2

                                Harm Millaard wrote:

                                 

                                Not possible.

                                actually, it is possible.

                                avchd.jpg
                                there is one caveat though, it has to be vanilla AVCHD straight from the camcorder. no edits, no nothing. vanilla from the camcorder.

                                 

                                burns to blu-ray, no extra transcode.

                                • 13. Re: AVCHD direct to Bluray?
                                  Keith_Clark Level 2

                                  Andy Ramone wrote:

                                   

                                  Harm Millaard wrote:

                                   

                                  Not possible.

                                  actually, it is possible.

                                  avchd.jpg
                                  there is one caveat though, it has to be vanilla AVCHD straight from the camcorder. no edits, no nothing. vanilla from the camcorder.

                                   

                                  burns to blu-ray, no extra transcode.

                                  ps, this is in CS5 i took screen-cap, so it should be present in CS6 as well...

                                  • 14. Re: AVCHD direct to Bluray?
                                    Keith_Clark Level 2

                                    artistdomain wrote:

                                     

                                    Hi, Anyone,

                                     

                                    Is it possible to export AVCHD files to Encore with no transcode? 

                                     

                                    Is it true I could be burning files directly out of my AVCHD cameras - directly to BDR as AVCHD. And it's compatible on all, or very nearly all, players. Or so I've been led to believe for a number of years now.   

                                     

                                    as said, works fine

                                     

                                     

                                     

                                    Simply "dynamic link" an entire sequence (or work area) right on over to Encore and just burn that sucker!  Right away. You can have simple menus, etc.also.

                                     

                                     

                                    wont work.

                                     

                                     

                                     

                                    Being able to author to BD5 and BD9 would be nice too.

                                     

                                     

                                    possible. i do it all the time to test menu nav. i burn it to DVD-5 and DVD-9 (rws, its just quicker to burn a DVD at 8x and test then a Blu-ray at 1x)

                                    • 15. Re: AVCHD direct to Bluray?
                                      artistdomain Level 1

                                      That's very interesting, Andy.

                                       

                                      I'd been led to believe that a simple menu system was possible.

                                       

                                      I'm curious about basic details of your workflow for both: "AVCHD direct to Bluray" and BD5.

                                       

                                      Thanks!

                                      • 16. Re: AVCHD direct to Bluray?
                                        Keith_Clark Level 2

                                        oh i wasnt talking about menus. menus are besides the point. you can do as many menus as you want, as complex as you want. i was just referring to the video file itslef.

                                         

                                        as for the workflow, it's simple. open encore, go to "file" > "import" > "as timeline," and import the avchd files you want. create your menus and do whatever you need to do, then export to BD folder/image/burn disc

                                         

                                        if you want to have "1 timeline" you can simply set the end action of each video to start the next video in line. it'll play 'em all, one after the other (with a 2 second pause between videos).

                                         

                                        as for BD-9 and BD-5, you have to have a short video. i can't remember the length though. straight 1080p24 i think would be at like 12 minutes? or around? it's super short though. you just create a blu-ray disc to the tee, and if it is under 8.5 or 4.7 gb, it'll burn to a DVD disc. (i do it by exporting a Blu-Ray image file and burning it with ImageBurn)

                                        • 17. Re: AVCHD direct to Bluray?
                                          artistdomain Level 1

                                          Thanks Andy,

                                           

                                          Trouble is getting the AVCHD out of Premiere without transcoding it. I assume you use something else.

                                          • 18. Re: AVCHD direct to Bluray?
                                            Keith_Clark Level 2

                                            artistdomain wrote:

                                             

                                            Thanks Andy,

                                             

                                            Trouble is getting the AVCHD out of Premiere without transcoding it. 

                                            can't.

                                             

                                            that breaks the one caveat. it has to be straight from the camera. if it even as so much TOUCHES premiere, that workflow i detailed is null and void. it can not at all touch any NLE. has to go from camcorder straight to encore.

                                             

                                            btw, i dont use this workflow, i was just showing it can be done. i like to edit my videos so i never burn anything straight from the cam. but if you don't want to trasncode, thats your only option. from the camera, to encore. nothing inbetween.

                                            • 19. Re: AVCHD direct to Bluray?
                                              artistdomain Level 1

                                              Hi Andy,

                                               

                                              I see. However, I don't see why. It seems to be simply a limitation of Premiere, doesn't it? Other people can use Corel's NLE which exports AVCHD without transcoding. I've heard that Sony Vegas also does.

                                               

                                              I suppose nobody around here has CS6 yet?

                                               

                                              Thanks  

                                              • 20. Re: AVCHD direct to Bluray?
                                                Keith_Clark Level 2

                                                artistdomain wrote:

                                                 

                                                Hi Andy,

                                                 

                                                Other people can use Corel's NLE which exports AVCHD without transcoding. I've heard that Sony Vegas also does.

                                                I don't see how. It's not a premiere limitation, it's just NLE editing in general. I I have an AVCHD file, and I add color grading, or a title, how is that going to show up on the disc? The effect has to be baked into the video. You have to transcode it. I mean, you can transcode it to h.264, but it still has to. E transcoded regardless to burn to disc.

                                                 

                                                GIve me an example of a situation where an AVCHD file can be out in Vegas, then burned without transcoding. I'm just curious if maybe someone is missing a step, or if maybe you have transcode confused with another term? Just curious.

                                                • 21. Re: AVCHD direct to Bluray?
                                                  rexpost Level 1

                                                  AVCHD is part of the Blu-Ray spec as is VC-1 and Mpeg2.

                                                   

                                                  the problem, is that the Profile or "version" of AVCHD from a camera is not the same

                                                  as what Blu-Ray needs.

                                                   

                                                  pegasys (aka tmpgenc) makes blu-ray authoring apps that can take mpeg transport

                                                  streams from an HDV tape, rewrites the headers and can burn a blu-ray to proper spec

                                                  without transcoding.

                                                   

                                                  they might be doing an AVCHD method as well.

                                                   

                                                  doesn't solve your encore workflow, but might be helpful to you.

                                                  • 22. Re: AVCHD direct to Bluray?
                                                    artistdomain Level 1

                                                    Andy, yes, I understand that but there are times when I'd like to just make a quick rough cut with only cuts and no effects. I can make a quick menu with thumbnails each separate clip.

                                                     

                                                    For me, this would speed up workflow and make things easier. Rewritable approval discs can be exchanged easily in the mail and played on any BDR player. Sending that disc would also serve as a simultaneous off-site backup too. I'm sure lots of others would see this a big workflow benefit.

                                                     

                                                    Been in the business professionally for 15 years; I understand the terms. I learned to say "transcode" many years ago with the first versions of Cineform intermediate. I understood how it was Cineform HDV codec that enabled Adobe to perform relatime HDV editing. But, that was a log time ago. Now, Adobe gives us "native"!

                                                     

                                                    I have a Matrox MXO2 mini and have not used the Matrox intermediate I Frame codec for a couple of projects now because my new system's speed and Nvidia GPU allow good realtime performance of native AVCHD editing. (I still use a Matrox preset for external monitoring.)     

                                                        

                                                    What's the big deal with Adobe allowing exporting an AVCHD sequence by dynamic link over to Encore? We don't need effects or transitions. Believe me this serves a very real purpose and will be more than satisfactory to many customers, of mine anyway.

                                                     

                                                    My cameras are AVCHD currrently and I know all about living with the limitations of the codec. But this "AVCHD direct to disc thing is a good thing". I'll take the good with the bad if Adobe would give it to me. 

                                                    • 23. Re: AVCHD direct to Bluray?
                                                      paddyz123 Level 1

                                                      I think it is possible.

                                                       

                                                      When I bought my Sony HDR-CX700V camcorder, I remember it came with a software called PMB that allows you to burn the AVCHD directly to BD.  And Sony BD players should be able to playback.  My understanding is that although AVCHD is not Bluray spec, they are very similar.  Since AVCHD is Sony's brainchild, its BD players have the support for the specs.

                                                       

                                                      I never tried this direct burn feature.  I have always followed PPro>Encore>burn workflow so I cannot verify it.

                                                      • 24. Re: AVCHD direct to Bluray?
                                                        artistdomain Level 1

                                                        Thanks, rexpost. Looking into it.

                                                         

                                                        Paddyz123,

                                                         

                                                        Technically, AVCHD and BDR are brothers from the same mother... Panasonic and Sony, jointly. However, playback is part of the spec; all BDR players should play it.

                                                         

                                                        Thanks for the tidbit re PMB.     

                                                        • 25. Re: AVCHD direct to Bluray?
                                                          Keith_Clark Level 2

                                                          I'll do further research later....

                                                           

                                                          Sent from iPhone 4s

                                                          • 26. Re: AVCHD direct to Bluray?
                                                            artistdomain Level 1

                                                            I just discovered something that was right under my nose. I shoot Panasonic and have the AVCAM viewer installed.

                                                             

                                                            Waddya know! It allows simple editing and immediate writing to BD-RE, ver 3.0. But there are things to understand:

                                                             

                                                            When you delete a segment, it really deletes it at the file. Not like timeline editing in a traditional NLE where deleting leaves the file itself intact. You need to archive the files before editing.

                                                             

                                                            Another is that a 32GB SD won't fit on a BDR5, but will fit on a BDR9. A 64GB SD card will not fit on a BDR9. Still reading manual so not sure if disc-spanning is supported.        

                                                             

                                                            The manual states that 12 cm BD-RE and BD-R discs are supported to burn but ony playable on players that support BD-RE ver 3.0.

                                                             

                                                            You can import the AVCHD source into your system and then edit only by deleting a specific clip or movie. You can't delete a segment within a clip.

                                                             

                                                            This functionality, as limited as it currently is, is reminiscent of my old DV days where I had a set top DVD burner with a Firewire input. In many, many situations it was just so much more expedient to connect a DV cam up to that deck and make a direct burn - for fast review by accounts. 

                                                             

                                                            Today, however, this allows that and at the same time it is still AVCHD and can be used to bring back into an editor and edit it natively. It's still the same, untranscoded native AVCHD. It's a good way to get native files to other people working on a production when a hard drive is problematic: i.e. different OSs and file system compatibility. Or where the drives could be subject to rough treatement or getting them back is a hassle.

                                                             

                                                            I could live with the AVCHD format a lot better with this functionality. I hope Adobe gets with it on a workflow.