14 Replies Latest reply on Dec 28, 2012 10:40 AM by Jim_Simon

    AVCHD Metadata & keywords workflow in CS6

    joshweiland Level 2

      Hi everyone,

       

      I posted a similar question in the Bridge CS6 forum and am not getting many responses.  So I thought I'd post here in the Premiere forums as there's likely more folks here with AVCHD experience.

       

      I am new to AVCHD.  I have a separate media drive on my computer (internal RAID-0 volume) with a "footage library" folder.  I've been dumping the contents of my memory cards into this folder (creating a subfolder for each), retaining the file/directory structure of the memory card.

       

      I want to be able to edit metadata and apply keywords to each individual AVCHD video file.  This information would then be viewable/searchable by all Adobe applications (specifically Bridge and Premiere Pro).

       

      Is there a way to do this?  It seems like such a simple task.  I assumed I would do this in Bridge, but it does not work.  I know that I can add info to each clip from within Premiere, but this info is NOT viewable outside of that particular Premiere project (i.e. it doesn't show up in Bridge, or even if I were to reuse the same file in a different Premiere project).

       

      Any feedback would be much appreciated.

        • 1. Re: AVCHD Metadata & keywords workflow in CS6
          joshweiland Level 2

          Bumping this to see if I can get any feedback.  I can't be the only person trying to sort this out!

           

          In Bridge CS6, I'm able to add/edit metadata and keywords to image files, DV video files, native HDV files, and Cineform-conformed HDV files.

           

          I'm unable to do this with AVCHD files.  And I really need this (what seems to be so simple!) functionality to work.

          • 2. Re: AVCHD Metadata & keywords workflow in CS6
            Jim_Simon Level 8

            DV, HDV and Cineform files are all-inclusive.  Meaning one file contains video, audio, timecode and metadata.  Nice and neat, the way all video should be.

             

            The technoidiots who invented solid state formats somehow missed this very basic and crucial concept.  They divided things up and put them into different folders, so now we're basically screwed when it comes to certain 'file functionality' like renaming individual clips, and possibly adding metadata.

             

            I personally recommend a very strongly worded letter to Panasonic and Sony (the inventors of AVCHD) about their idiotic folder implementation.  The rule of thumb here is "One file to contain it all".

             

            The most frustrating part of all this is that the MXF format was specifically designed to hold all that information in one file, yet even those formats that do use MXF (like DVCPRO HD and AVC-I) still implement that idiotic folder structure and separate things out.

            • 3. Re: AVCHD Metadata & keywords workflow in CS6
              joshweiland Level 2

              I'm a bit disappointed by the lack of responses from the community here. I can't be the only person wanting a workflow like this.  Guess I will resort to contacting Adobe support.

               

              Jim: I don't really see your point.  Yes, AVCHD has a folder structure containing various data...but all the video files are self-contained files w/audio all in one place.

               

              If I add metadata/keywords to a HDV file in Adobe Bridge, it's added as a sidecar .XMP file.  So why can't the same be done for AVCHD files?

              • 4. Re: AVCHD Metadata & keywords workflow in CS6
                needles27 Level 3

                What about adding Prelude into your workflow?  It is a powerful program, easy to use, and it appends the metadata into your files so it can be viewable across all of the Adobe products.  Have you given it a try?

                1 person found this helpful
                • 5. Re: AVCHD Metadata & keywords workflow in CS6
                  jstrawn Adobe Employee

                  The technoidiots who invented solid state formats somehow missed this very basic and crucial concept.  They divided things up and put them into different folders, so now we're basically screwed when it comes to certain 'file functionality' like renaming individual clips, and possibly adding metadata.

                  Words cannot express how totally I agree with that sentiment. AVCHD files have made my life immeasurably more complex.

                   

                  @ josh: I'm not an expert about either AVCHD files or the way bridge stamps out xmp/wml sidecars, so I can't speak with authority... but if you import those files into prpro and add to their metadata there then you should have no problem retaining that metadata in any project(s) you may use it in, including sending it to Bridge (I think). I'm not sure why the converse is not working... the only reason I can think of is because Bridge is only opening the video part of it (or the audio, if that's what your pointing to) whereas prpro is showing it to you as one file, even though it's really not... At least I THINK that's the way it works, but I'm not certain... I'm really just hoping to learn more than I can share in this particular thread.

                   

                  Perhaps others share my confusion and lack of knowledge when to comes to avchd metadata handling, which could partially explain the lack of responses.

                  • 6. Re: AVCHD Metadata & keywords workflow in CS6
                    Jim_Simon Level 8

                    .but all the video files are self-contained

                     

                    Not entirely.  The MTS stream may well contain both video and audio, but I believe timecode and other metadata are stored separately.

                    • 7. Re: AVCHD Metadata & keywords workflow in CS6
                      joshweiland Level 2

                      Thanks to everyone for their contributions.  I think I've discovered what the problem is...whether it's a bug or a feature to add I'm unsure of.

                       

                      I can add/edit metadata to AVCHD video files in Premiere.  It is stored in a sidecar .XMP file alongside the file itself.

                      I can add/edit metadata to AVCHD video files in Prelude (awesome program, BTW. Thanks to needles27 for recommending it!)  It is stored in the same sidecar .XMP file.

                      Premiere sees the metadata added by Prelude and vice versa.  This is quite useful, especially creating subclips in Prelude.

                       

                      Bridge does NOT see this metadata whatsoever.  So not only does Bridge prohibit adding metadata, it refuses to see the metadata added by other products.

                       

                      My goal with all of this is to have a massive library of footage, used in different projects, that I can search through.  So when I ingest video from my memory card to my hard drive, I would manually add metadata for each clip: a category (4-H, sports, etc), names of the people in the clip, etc.  I do not care which program I use to add this metadata, but it has to be viewable/searchable within Bridge.  So I could open up Bridge, navigate to the root folder of my video library, and do a search for ALL (regardless of whatever project they're used in) 4-H clips that contain Joe.  As it is now, I'd have to open up multiple individual Premiere/Prelude projects to search or create a master project containing my entire footage library...what a mess.

                       

                      What I think the problem is

                      While trying to figure out how to use Prelude, I came across this help page.  The interesting tidbit:

                      When using AVCHD files, ensure that you maintain the folder structure. Raw MTS files cannot be logged in Prelude.

                       

                      My AVCHD files are MTS files, but since I've retained the folder structure of the memory card, Prelude supports adding metadata to them.  (Let's assume this restriction is in place in all Adobe programs, including Premiere and Bridge.)

                       

                      Within the Media Browser (in Premiere) and the Ingest browser (in Prelude), once I drill down to the [Memory Card Root]\PRIVATE\AVCHD\ folder, the application detects that I'm looking at AVCHD files.

                       

                      Bridge CS6 does NOT detect this.  Instead, I have to drill down to the [Memory Card Root]\PRIVATE\AVCHD\BDMV\STREAM\ folder, where the actual MTS files reside.  Since Bridge does not detect these as AVCHD files, it instead sees them as raw MTS files which cannot have metadata.

                       

                      So that's my hypothesis.  Is there currently any way to force Bridge to see a folder as AVCHD content?

                      • 8. Re: AVCHD Metadata & keywords workflow in CS6
                        jstrawn Adobe Employee

                        Prelude and PrPro ae much more closely integrated than PrPro and Bridge, which is why they both use that same sidecar method that you aptly discovered. What you are describing basically sounds like a feature rquest for Bridge to support AVCHD sidecar XML as per PrPro/Prelude.

                         

                        The forum for Bridge is here:

                        http://forums.adobe.com/community/bridge

                         

                        You should be able to make an appropriate feature request from there. Your request is a good one, but I cannot speak to what Bridge's priorities are for AVCHD or toher folder-dependent format.

                        1 person found this helpful
                        • 9. Re: AVCHD Metadata & keywords workflow in CS6
                          joshweiland Level 2

                          Thanks to everyone for their feedback in this thread. I will be submitting a feature request.

                          • 10. Re: AVCHD Metadata & keywords workflow in CS6
                            Blair_Switchback Level 1

                            Hey Josh,

                             

                            I am having the exact same issue and seem to want the exact same features as you. If you've submitted a feature request I'd like to support it, do you still have the address for it?

                            1 person found this helpful
                            • 11. Re: AVCHD Metadata & keywords workflow in CS6
                              joshweiland Level 2

                              Hi Blair,

                               

                              I posted a feature-request (at least I think it is!) here: http://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/avchd_support_in_bridge_cs6

                               

                              Does not seem to be getting much attention, if any.

                              • 12. Re: AVCHD Metadata & keywords workflow in CS6
                                Blair_Switchback Level 1

                                Thanks Josh! Hopefully they catch on to it soon, I'm surprised there isn't more support for this, it seems like a no-brainer. Currently we are having to transcode all of our footage and rename the files in order to be able to search through large directories for footage and even then we just use Finder on a Mac instead of Bridge.

                                • 13. Re: AVCHD Metadata & keywords workflow in CS6
                                  mhcall

                                  Hey Josh,

                                   

                                  I renamed the  *.mts extension into *. m2t (an older mpeg2 container format), and at least Prelude seems to work and accept that, while creating an additional XMP file.

                                  This will enable to "raw"cut the files and export/recode them into other applications.

                                   

                                  However, SpeedGrade doesn't seem to like *.m2t extension.

                                  • 14. Re: AVCHD Metadata & keywords workflow in CS6
                                    Jim_Simon Level 8

                                    SpeedGrade is currently pretty limited in the media it can directly work with.  I suspect we'll have to wait for future updates to see that improve.