13 Replies Latest reply on Jun 7, 2012 2:36 PM by lilia@

    Eager for truly transparent boxes

    ceilr Level 1

      On several graphics for a book I'm writing, I need to draw thick, transparent grayscale lines atop existing graphics.  I've drawn them with skinny, long boxes because lines, while transparent, come out too light.  The intention is to make them look like I'm using a highlighter on the graphics.  (I'm using ID5, btw.)

       

      Anyway, I've selected no stroke at all for these very thin "boxes", and given them a transparency setting of 50%.  While the transparency is working out great, most of the boxes also show anything from a medium to dark stroke along the right-hand side of the box only.  This doesn't show on the screen, only in print.

       

      I tried adding a stroke to the outside of some of the boxes, but no improvement.

       

      Worse, when I print the same page more than once, boxes that didn't have strokes on the right-hand side, get them, even though I haven't moved anything around on the page!  So there is really no rhyme or reason to what's going on

       

      On a related note, some of the graphics I've imported from another program to Illustrator (for a color change) and then to InDesign produce a dark stroke along the right edge of the bounding box.  I'd like to prevent these also.

       

      What to do to prevent the dark strokes?  Thanks!

        • 1. Re: Eager for truly transparent boxes
          Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

          If it isn't showing on screen, there's a good chance it's printer-related (when you say it shows in print, do you mean from your printer, or from press output?).

           

          If it's your printer, you can test that theory by rotating the page 180 degrees inthe print dialog and see if the dark stroke switches sides.

          • 2. Re: Eager for truly transparent boxes
            lilia@ Level 2

            Turn on overprint preview (view menu) to see if it really isn't in the document.

            Looks can be decieving!

            • 3. Re: Eager for truly transparent boxes
              ceilr Level 1

              (This took a while to respond to because I was away for the weekend and then had to tend to other tasks.)

               

               

               

              I just now turned one of the graphics 90 degrees CCW.  Sadly, the dark edge to the right of one vertical line is at the top when turned horizontal, so is in the same place.  (I was hoping to see it at the right end, now that it’s horizontal.)  So is this really a printer problem?  Granted, my HP printer is a LaserJet.  Would higher resolution produce the same result?

               

               

               

              Thanks!

              • 4. Re: Eager for truly transparent boxes
                Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                I'm confused by your description of the position of the dark line. Did the position rotate with the image, or stay in the same place relative to the page?

                 

                Waht I really asked you to do was to pick the icon for page orientation in the print dialog that was 180 degrees rotated from the one you normally use to see if the line would switch ends. If it does, it's the printer, if not it's the file.

                • 5. Re: Eager for truly transparent boxes
                  ceilr Level 1

                  Thanks, Peter.  This time I went to Print/Set-up and changed to landscape orientation.  I got the same result from landscape and portrait.

                   

                   

                   

                  Who do I contact at Adobe about this?  This book is in big trouble if those thick lines can’t be totally clear.

                  • 6. Re: Eager for truly transparent boxes
                    BobLevine MVP & Adobe Community Professional

                    I've just gone back and re-read this thread.

                     

                    I see no reason for you to be using filled objects instead of lines. Whatever you're seeing (and it would sure help to see screenshots) is not at all normal. I would also go so far as to say don't use transparency when standard practices will do.

                     

                    In this case setting your lines to overprint should work for commercial printing.

                     

                    There is nobody at Adobe for you to contact about this unless you're looking to spend some money.

                     

                    Bob

                    • 7. Re: Eager for truly transparent boxes
                      lilia@ Level 2

                      Bob's suggestion is a good one.

                      The only thing I would add is to ensure that your printer is aware that the file includes overprint.

                       

                      I was burnt recently, I used a printer to print and bind 40 books.

                      They use a high-tech laser printer and he was unaware of the checkbox for overprint.

                      • 8. Re: Eager for truly transparent boxes
                        ceilr Level 1

                        Filled boxes won’t work.  I’ve already tried that.  And the fill would completely cover up what’s under the object.  I need something to show through.

                        • 9. Re: Eager for truly transparent boxes
                          ceilr Level 1

                          Not sure what Overprint does or how to do it?

                          • 10. Re: Eager for truly transparent boxes
                            lilia@ Level 2

                            overprinting is the process of printing one colour (plate) on top of another colour (plate)

                            demo.jpg

                            how to

                             

                            window > attributes ... to apply overprint

                            view > overprint preview ... to see it

                            in the print dialogue box > output > tick simulate overprint

                            • 11. Re: Eager for truly transparent boxes
                              BobLevine MVP & Adobe Community Professional

                              If you don't know what overprinting is you are in over your head. Step back and do some reading.

                               

                              Sounds cold I know but the cost of a botched print run is not easy to swallow either.

                               

                              Bob

                              • 12. Re: Eager for truly transparent boxes
                                ceilr Level 1

                                Thank you, lilia, for getting me on track.  I had never heard of overprinting before and needed a tutorial.  As I didn’t want to download the image at the link you supplied, I went to Adobe help and from there navigated to

                                 

                                 

                                 

                                http://help.adobe.com/en_US/indesign/cs/using/WSa285fff53dea4f8617383751001ea8cb3f-7038a.h tml

                                 

                                 

                                 

                                where I could read about what overprinting is.  So I draw three circles, overlapped them and filled them, and then went through all the overprinting business to see how it worked.  Then I went to work on the situations in my book, and it worked!

                                 

                                 

                                 

                                The only tweak I would make to lilia’s good instructions is to go to Window\>>Output<<\Attributes to get the overprinting dialog box.  It took a while to find that on my own in the Window menu.  Viewing the overprint is easy to do.  The only possibility for the music graphics is Nonprinting, and if applied, the music will not print!  Good to play with that, too, to see what it does, even if I don’t completely understand why all of this works.

                                 

                                 

                                 

                                The funny thing is that what I did behaves more like >under<printing, because I had to remove the Transparency setting and then bring the music graphic forward of all the highlighter boxes I’d drawn.  I also backed off on the grayscale to only 8%.  All the dark edges on boxes are gone now.  Doing the happy dance here!

                                 

                                 

                                 

                                I hope this helps others out there.  I come to the forums to get answers and am grateful to lilia for responding quickly and kindly.  Lilia’s heart for training comes through, and I thank you.

                                • 13. Re: Eager for truly transparent boxes
                                  lilia@ Level 2

                                  ceilr wrote:

                                  The only tweak I would make to lilia’s good instructions is to go to Window\>>Output<<\Attributes to get the overprinting dialog box.

                                  I did tell you that see...

                                   

                                  how to

                                   

                                  window > attributes ... to apply overprint (the only difference is Output... i must have had CS4 open at the time)

                                  view > overprint preview ... to see it

                                  in the print dialogue box > output > tick simulate overprint

                                   

                                  ... and your welcome.