21 Replies Latest reply on Jun 21, 2012 10:36 PM by shooternz

    Monitor preview too dark

    brycedavid1

      I have both Final Cut Pro X and a subscription with Premiere Pro 5.5. I'm working on a film project and want to work with Premiere Pro, as FCP X has too many wonky aspects about it. But now I'm starting to work with the clips and the image in the monitor preview window is way too dark. I can't edit anything. But the same clip (or clips) looks fine in FCP X or iMovie HD, which I've been using to do rough cuts with no issues. Same file, same monitor/computer. The clips are imported, not captured.

       

      I've uploaded a screenshot of the issue which speaks for itself. If you notice the grate on the left is visible in the FCP X image and you can see a foot but not in PP. Can someone help me with this?

       

      premierepro.jpg

        • 1. Re: Monitor preview too dark
          Jim_Simon Level 8

          I see both fine.

          • 2. Re: Monitor preview too dark
            brycedavid1 Level 1

            Really? Hmm...your monitor sees both images as too dark because in the top image you clearly see the lines and circle within the grate and you don't it in the premiere preview screenshot photo. It's completely black. Same thing with the foot which I use as a reference point for editing but I can't use the foot in premiere because I can't see it.

            • 3. Re: Monitor preview too dark
              Jim_Simon Level 8

              Like I said, I see both grate and foot just fine in both images you posted.

              • 4. Re: Monitor preview too dark
                brycedavid1 Level 1

                Impossible. There's no foot in the second image.

                • 5. Re: Monitor preview too dark
                  Jim_Simon Level 8

                  Yeah there is.  Right at the bottom of the pant lag.  Clear as day for me.

                  • 6. Re: Monitor preview too dark
                    brycedavid1 Level 1

                    You're clearly not even seeing it correctly. Thanks but can someone else chime in?

                    • 7. Re: Monitor preview too dark
                      Jim_Simon Level 8

                      Funny.  I see what you claim is supposed to be there, you don't, and I'm the one not seeing it correctly?

                      • 8. Re: Monitor preview too dark
                        Magnus Allgurén Level 2

                        I am sorry to say, but I see the same as Jim! I have no problem seeing the foot in either of the images...

                        • 9. Re: Monitor preview too dark
                          brycedavid1 Level 1

                          The file is clear in FCP X.

                           

                          The file is clear in Quicktime, Pro or X

                           

                          The file is clear in iMovie HD.

                           

                          The file is clear in MPEG Streamclip.

                           

                          The file is clear in VLC.

                           

                          The image is clear in Iverio

                           

                          The file is clear in everything but Premiere. It's not a monitor thing. It something to do with Premiere.

                           

                          I have the original photoshop file of both screenshots. I have to put the level adjustment layer all the way to the end to start seeing something in the bottom screenshot (not the top one) from premiere.

                           

                          The image is too dark to edit. Need to change some settings (not color correction) to make it look like all the other software.

                          • 10. Re: Monitor preview too dark
                            brycedavid1 Level 1

                            Here's a gif animation

                             

                            how to animate a gif

                            • 11. Re: Monitor preview too dark
                              JAKE JONSON Level 1

                              I'm not a Mac person but could this have something to do with the different gamma that Macs use? If I had the time I would google it for you but you are just as capable of doing so.  My guess is that Premiere Pro may not be adjusting for this gamma difference with windows while the other more Mac-specific applications are. Like I say, do some searches... both with google and in this forum.

                              • 12. Re: Monitor preview too dark
                                shooternz Level 6

                                Can I suggest to the OP

                                 

                                Create a Bars and Tone Clip in either Premiere or FCPX ( one or the other).

                                Take a frame grab.

                                Open the frame grab in FCPX and also in Premiere. 

                                 

                                Check your result in the waveform monitor but also do a screen grab comparison as above.

                                • 13. Re: Monitor preview too dark
                                  brycedavid1 Level 1

                                  I don't know if this is what you wanted but here are some examples: The top bars is FCP X. The bottom set is PP.

                                   

                                  bars.gif

                                   

                                  bars1.gif

                                  The PP bars on top of the FCP X bars, which are brighter.

                                   

                                  bars2.gif

                                   

                                  Here's a combo of the two. The PP bars are greyer and darker, with the indigo and purple being noticeably darker.

                                   

                                  Like Jake said, it's most likely a gamma issue. I've already found old links about this issue on them interwebs so it's nothing new but with no solution. Is there a way to correct/change of the gamma settings in PP, like you can do in Photoshop?

                                  • 14. Re: Monitor preview too dark
                                    shooternz Level 6

                                    Good test.

                                     

                                    Its interesting because neither of them are particularly wrong. The pluges in the bottom right are displaying kind of correctly and kind of what I would expect in either NLE.

                                     

                                    Did the waveform monitors tell you anything regarding Shadow, Mid (gamma) and highlights when displaying the Bars?

                                     

                                    BTW- Your original footage is not such a great test because it was a  very badly exposed  source. I know that if I viewed that source in a Histogram or a WFM ..gammas would be all hanging around the bottom with no true blacks.

                                     

                                    I suspect that the different Preview Codecs in the different NLEs and Players are maybe causing the discrepancy.

                                     

                                    What are the project settings in PPRO ( and FCPX).

                                    • 15. Re: Monitor preview too dark
                                      brycedavid1 Level 1

                                      Thanks so much for your help, Shooternz! I appreciate it.

                                       

                                      I agree that the source is not the best but this is the first shot of the film and after testing those files in QT or iMovie, etc, with no darkness issues, I was surprised by the discrepancies in PP and didn't bother fixing it or going on further until I see the PP preview as it is in the other softwares. It's simply impossible to correct an image if it's not a true preview of how it supposed to actually look like in the first place. I didn't check the shadow, mid and highlights with the bars. I'll try to check it tomorrow.

                                       

                                      The settings for both PP and FCP X are the same. 1080p at 30fps.

                                       

                                      Here are a couple of screenshots with waveform:

                                       

                                      fcpsettings.jpg

                                      FCP X with no correction

                                       

                                      ppcorrection.jpg

                                      In PP with quick correction trying to make it look like FCP X

                                       

                                      ppnocorrection.jpg

                                      In PP with no correction

                                      • 16. Re: Monitor preview too dark
                                        shooternz Level 6

                                        That waveform exhibits exactly what I expected to see from that source footage.

                                         

                                        There is no range in it and it would be very difficult to CC and grade. (IMHO). 

                                         

                                        It kind of moves past your "darkness issue" ..but in saying that... I do not technically know  why it displays differently in players and NLEs outside of PPRO.

                                         

                                        The WFM is my "absolute reference"  for everything I do and output. 

                                         

                                        My work is critically analysed for broadcast ( otherwise rejected) and I have total faith in what I get from PPro and my monoitors.  I cross reference my wokflow via WFM monitoring ( and Ultrascope) at all stages and in more than one facilty.

                                         

                                        I trust anything outside of QT is I guess... what I am telling you.

                                        • 17. Re: Monitor preview too dark
                                          medeamajic Level 2

                                          I think you might have it backwards. I think PP CS 6.0 is a more accurate representation of what it will look like on an NTSC monitor (TV). Karle Soule mentions this in a video. Burn it to DVD or Blu-ray and watch it on your HD TV. I am willing to bet the PP CS 6.0 preview will be the more accurate version than FCP X preview.

                                          • 18. Re: Monitor preview too dark
                                            brycedavid1 Level 1

                                            Medeamajic, I would agree with you on that, in that PP is showing the real image but like I wrote above all the other softwares I listed show it like it is in FCP X, not PP. Only PP shows the image this dark. Even the playback straight from camera to plasma screen is like FCP X. PP is the only dark source. If I  had seen how dark the image was I would have easily reshot it, like I did with other scenes.

                                             

                                            I have to test it by burning it on a dvd.

                                            • 19. Re: Monitor preview too dark
                                              brandonsharp

                                              have you found any workarounds or solutions to this?

                                              i'm having the same issue with PP CS6 on my mac.

                                              and you are not crazy, i see a huge difference between the two images you posted...it's the same difference i see in my footage.

                                               

                                              only thing i can think of, is this might be related to the known QuickTime gamma issues.  is your source material in a QuickTime wrapper (.mov files?).  i just checked some AVCHD files and they look perfect...but my HDV files, captured as quicktimes, look darker than they should. 

                                               

                                              maybe there is a 'global' way to turn off/on gamma correction for quicktime?  it seems odd this isn't more common, or there isn't some known fix for this...

                                              • 20. Re: Monitor preview too dark
                                                josephs51576386 Level 3

                                                I'm on a pc so my sitution is probably different. But Premiere has always been what I trust since I have a real YC-WAVEFORM/Vectorscope where I work and Premiere always has matched my physical equiptment.

                                                 

                                                But whenever I play things in quicktime it often causes gamma shifts, Which raises things just like your photos display, so I'm wondering if you're using a quicktime wrapper.

                                                 

                                                http://www.videocopilot.net/blog/2008/06/fix-quicktime-gamma-shift/

                                                 

                                                http://vitrolite.wordpress.com/2010/12/31/quicktime_gamma_bug/

                                                 

                                                http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?61982-gamma-shift-in-FCP-Quicktime-is-there-a- workaround-for-internet-delivery

                                                 

                                                Anyways though if you search google you'll come up with tons of stuff where people have this issue. Sadly it's just a flaw in quicktime with certain codecs etc which in turn affects final cut in many cases if your video isn't wrapped in quicktime (sometimes)

                                                • 21. Re: Monitor preview too dark
                                                  shooternz Level 6

                                                  I'm on a pc so my sitution is probably different. But Premiere has always been what I trust since I have a real YC-WAVEFORM/Vectorscope where I work and Premiere always has matched my physical equiptment.

                                                   

                                                   

                                                  I monitor waveforms cross platform and cross facility  and that is my experience also.