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1. Re: PNY VCQ6000-PB Quadro 6000 6GB 384-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 Workstation Video Card
Harm Millaard Jun 1, 2012 12:52 PM (in response to Skulltrail Editing)I heard about one organization that uses a setup like this:
Dual Xeon i5-2690 (€ 4,000)
96 GB memory (€ 2,200)
Tesla C2075 (€ 2,200)
Quadro 6000 (€ 3,600)
Petarack (€ 500,000)
and the other minor periphernalia (€ 8,000) .
Seriously, how many do you expect to spend around € 5,800 on a video solution with only 448 CUDA cores for MPE assitance, when a GTX 680 goes for € 450?
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2. Re: PNY VCQ6000-PB Quadro 6000 6GB 384-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 Workstation Video Card
Skulltrail Editing Jun 1, 2012 12:59 PM (in response to Harm Millaard)Thanks i read your stuff all the time what rig do you use
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3. Re: PNY VCQ6000-PB Quadro 6000 6GB 384-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 Workstation Video Card
Harm Millaard Jun 1, 2012 1:02 PM (in response to Skulltrail Editing)Currently 'Harm's Beast', soon to be replaced by 'Harm's Monster'. See Benchmark Results
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4. Re: PNY VCQ6000-PB Quadro 6000 6GB 384-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 Workstation Video Card
Skulltrail Editing Jun 1, 2012 1:04 PM (in response to Skulltrail Editing)Money is'nt a problem i just what a very fast rig i only use xeon cpu
Do you think the 690 or 680 will be just as good. Everyone from nvida tells me i should 8x faster editing.
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5. Re: PNY VCQ6000-PB Quadro 6000 6GB 384-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 Workstation Video Card
Harm Millaard Jun 1, 2012 1:55 PM (in response to Skulltrail Editing)My personal preference is currently the 4 GB GTX 680 version, but I'm hoping that nVidia will come out with a version, that I have called the 685, with a 384 bit memory bus instead of the current 256 bit bus. That will make a huge difference in performance. The 690 does nothing for PR, since the second GPU is not used at all, it is completely idle.
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6. Re: PNY VCQ6000-PB Quadro 6000 6GB 384-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 Workstation Video Card
Skulltrail Editing Jun 1, 2012 2:40 PM (in response to Harm Millaard)what about the k10 or k20 tesla cards for video editing
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7. Re: PNY VCQ6000-PB Quadro 6000 6GB 384-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 Workstation Video Card
Harm Millaard Jun 1, 2012 11:37 PM (in response to Skulltrail Editing)The K20 is nice according to the specs, but I would not be surprised to see prices like K10 for around € 2600 and K20 for around € 4000. That brings the cost together with a Quadro 6000 into astronomous ranges. BFTB-wise it is still a lousy investment.
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8. Re: PNY VCQ6000-PB Quadro 6000 6GB 384-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 Workstation Video Card
Skulltrail Editing Jun 2, 2012 7:12 PM (in response to Harm Millaard)Thanks i will give you my spec. of my new pc soon
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9. Re: PNY VCQ6000-PB Quadro 6000 6GB 384-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 Workstation Video Card
Skulltrail Editing Jun 4, 2012 3:54 PM (in response to Skulltrail Editing)Dell Precision,T7600,MT,1300W 317-8697 1 Dual Six CoreXEON E5-2630,2.2GHz,15M,Dell Precision T7600 317-9079 1 32GB DDR3 RDIMM 1600,ECC,4x8GB,PWSTX600 331-7453 1 No Keyboard Selected,Dell Precision Desktops 320-3316 1 Monitor Option-None 320-3299 1 6GB nVIDIA Quadro 6000 with SLI,Dual Monitor,1DP and 1DVI,Dell Precision Tx600 342-3440 1 256GB,SSD,2.5" 342-4014 1 C2 SATA/SSD 2.5 Inch,1-4 Hard Drives,Dell Precision T7600 318-1335 1 19 in 1,Media Card Reader,Dell Precision T5600 421-5607 1 Windows 7 Professional,No Media, 64-bit,Fixed Precision, English 330-6228 1 Windows 7 Label, OptiPlex, Fixed Precision, Vostro Desktop 421-5335 1 Dell Client System Update (Updates latest Dell Recommended BIOS, Drivers, Firmware and Apps),Precision Desktop 310-1247 1 No Mouse for Workstation Model 331-3037 1 Rack Mountable Platform without Rails, Dell Precision R5500 342-5065 1 PERC H310 SATA/SAS Controller for Dell Precision, T7600 318-1326 1 8X DVD+/-RW,Data Only,Dell Precision T3600,T5600 and T7600 318-2231 1 Thank you for Choosing Dell 313-2663 1 No Speaker option 330-1085 1 No Remote Access Host Card forFX100 Remote Access Device,Dell Precision Desktop 318-1333 1 Dell Precision,T7600,1300W 85% Efficiency 342-2635 1 Enable Low Power Mode for EUP Compliance,Dell Precision Desktop 331-4129 1 Regulatory Label,Dell Precision T7600 421-6519 1 Dell Data Protection Access,Precision T3600, T5600 and T7600 330-3157 1 Power Cord,125V,2M,C13,Dell Precision 331-2477 1 Documentation,English and French,Dell Precision 342-3433 1 256GB,SSD,2.5",2 331-4133 1 RAID,CNTRL,INTEL,PAYG,D,T7600 330-3201 1 Energy Star Not Selected,Dell Precision Desktop 331-4131 1 No Out-of-Band Systems MGMT,PWS T7600 330-4024 1 No Resource CD for Dell Precision Desktop 331-4117 1 RAID 0, Dell Precision T3600, T5600 and T7600 330-5527 1 No Quick Reference Guide 331-4135 1 Shipping Material for System,Dell Precision T7600 421-3872 1 No Productivity Software,Dell OptiPlex,Precision and Latitude 938-4528 1 Dell Limited Hardware Warranty Plus Service Extended Year(s) 934-8127 1 Dell Limited Hardware Warranty Plus Service Initial Year 994-3502 1 ProSupport: Next Business Day Limited Onsite Service After Remote Diagnosis 2 Year Extended 994-9770 1 ProSupport: Next Business Day Limited Onsite Service After Remote Diagnosis Initial Year 989-3449 1 Thank you choosing Dell ProSupport. For tech support, visit http://support.dell.com/ProSupport or call 1-866-516-3115 994-3582 1 ProSupport : 7x24 Technical Support , 2 Year Extended 994-9910 1 ProSupport : 7x24 Technical Support , Initial 320-3685 1 NVIDIA Tesla C2075 Computing Processor,Dell Precision Tx600 331-4130 1 Resource DVD contains Diagnostics and Drivers,Dell Precision T7600 421-5682 1 Media Kit,Win 7 Professional 64bit,MUI,Dell OptiPlex, Precision and Latitude 430-4383 1 1394A Controller Card,Dell Precision T3600, T5600 and T7600 365-0530 1 CFI,Integration Fee,Order Ready,Pronc * -DISCOUNT/COUPON APPL * -DISCOUNT: SPECIAL OF -
10. Re: PNY VCQ6000-PB Quadro 6000 6GB 384-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 Workstation Video Card
StevRo Jun 5, 2012 2:20 AM (in response to Skulltrail Editing)Hi Skulltrail,
couldn't quite figure out from your configuration exactly what kind of workload you are trying to address? If it is just editing, your current configuration should be more balanced between cpu, video, & disk. imo there are too few disks, spent waayyy too much on video and the $$ would be better spent on disk then cpu.
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11. Re: PNY VCQ6000-PB Quadro 6000 6GB 384-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 Workstation Video Card
Harm Millaard Jun 5, 2012 9:38 AM (in response to Skulltrail Editing)This is a system that may equal a single i7-3930K in performance for around four times the price, at least if you are lucky. Quite possibly it will not quite reach the performance level of a € 3000 system for four times the price. It has a lousy BFTB. A rough guesstimate is that this system will end up around rank # 150 or worse on our PPBM5 Benchmark despite the massive amount spent.
PS. Don't shoot the messenger, shoot the decision maker.
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12. Re: PNY VCQ6000-PB Quadro 6000 6GB 384-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 Workstation Video Card
lasvideo Jun 5, 2012 9:45 AM (in response to Harm Millaard)Dont mind Harm. Its generally known he is biased against dual xeon systems.And guess which system he does have ......
Depending on what codec footage you edit and the kind of work you do, a powerful GPU and multicore CPUs power can come in handy. And if you can afford it, much the better. Bang for buck isnt always a wise guideline for purchasing equipment. How it fits your needs is sometimes more important. But if you a just doing weddings or anything but Red / Epic stuff, he may have a point
Most people that I know that are working professionally on a wide range of formats, are involved in motion graphics and make longer form projects will benefit from a more powerful system. Hobbyists maybe not so much.
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13. Re: PNY VCQ6000-PB Quadro 6000 6GB 384-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 Workstation Video Card
Harm Millaard Jun 5, 2012 10:15 AM (in response to lasvideo)Dont mind Harm. Its generally known he is biased against dual xeon systems.
That is only half of the story. I'm biased against Dell, HP, Boxx, Alienware etc. as well because they steal you blind if you want anything more that the base configuration, they deliver their stuff with crippled BIOS preventing you to overclock, they sometimes use non-standard PSU dimensions (HP) so you can't upgrade it, they do not offer sufficient expansion options, etc.
If dual Xeon systems were leading the pack in the benchmark, I would adjust my thinking, but they are nowhere comparable to a single CPU overclocked system. But the price is astronomically higher, especially from companies like Dell and HP.
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14. Re: PNY VCQ6000-PB Quadro 6000 6GB 384-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 Workstation Video Card
lasvideo Jun 5, 2012 10:34 AM (in response to Harm Millaard)I certainly agree about big box stores, that why I went to ADK and Puget eventually!
Some issues that somewhat negate your stance are ....most editors / facilities I know dont overclock (which is a moot point with E5).....current PPBM benchmarks do not reflect a work flow with Red / Epic / Arri / Alexa footage which for the "industry" are becoming a standard. They also dont take into account that lots of PrP editors do a lot of dynamic linking with AE.
So its really a matter of where you stand and what you do in this wide field known as video editing that is determinant of what you buy.
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15. Re: PNY VCQ6000-PB Quadro 6000 6GB 384-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 Workstation Video Card
RjL190365 Jun 6, 2012 4:45 AM (in response to lasvideo)This is because the current PPBM5 benchmark concentrates on the most popular of HD and SD video formats at the time of the benchmark's development. Prior to PPBM5, previous versions of PPBM were strictly standard definition.
Harm and Bill have been working on a test that involves some of those higher formats. But to run those tests to anyone's satisfaction, both the disk system and the graphics and CPU subsystems must be able to keep up with such demands. As a result, any BFTB ratings will be completely ignored (read: thrown out the window) because such material requires a system that costs at least $25,000 (an amount that very, very few people are even willing to spend even if they can "afford" it) just to even work at all.
And normally, dual-CPU systems are slower than some single-CPU systems due to the extra latency caused by the switching and splitting of the single bus to two CPUs. That split is the weakest point in current dual-CPU systems.
I do agree with Harm that the Quadros are mostly a waste of money if one will only be working with Premiere Pro. However, After Effects does take some advantage of the more robust OpenGL performance of the Quadros. In certain OpenGL productivity apps, the GeForces (yes, even the very fastest, latest one) are significantly slower than even a relatively old, very slow (by today's standards) Quadro FX 580, let alone a Quadro 4000 or above.
Message was edited by: RjL190365
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16. Re: PNY VCQ6000-PB Quadro 6000 6GB 384-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 Workstation Video Card
Harm Millaard Jun 6, 2012 5:26 AM (in response to lasvideo)In addition to Randalls remark, there are practical considerations like:
- Download size of the test. It is impractical to include footage of RED 4K and EPIC 5K and Arri and Alexa. It would mean a huge download.
- The testing time. Consider testing times on the current test roughly varying between 131 seconds to more than 4000 seconds. If the new test we are working on, which includes Canon XF 422 and RED 4K material, increases by a factor 10, the testing time for lesser machines would become prohibitive. You can't expect people to run a benchmark test if it means 11 hours or even more to run it.
We have to compromise.
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17. Re: PNY VCQ6000-PB Quadro 6000 6GB 384-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 Workstation Video Card
JEShort01 Jun 6, 2012 5:45 AM (in response to Harm Millaard)Harm,
Regarding how long it takes to run PPBM6, maybe running "too slow" for slower PCs need not be an issue. PPBM5 should work fine for their needs.
Or, for PPBM6, maybe a separate "large format" test (for RED, EPIC, etc.) with its own separate "large file" download could be implemented that could be considered optional in order for user's to turn in a test submission.
In any case, thanks for all the hard work that you do (you too Bill!) to support the PPBM franchise!
Regards,
Jim
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18. Re: PNY VCQ6000-PB Quadro 6000 6GB 384-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 Workstation Video Card
lasvideo Jun 6, 2012 6:30 AM (in response to JEShort01)I can appreciate the constraints Harm and Bill have to deal with, with the large professional formats. But as Premiere gets more refined, its attracting the kind of crowd that uses them. If its not practical to run benchmarks, then we will have to acknowledge that the PPBM is not the final word in which systems to purchase since it cant reflect all the new work conditions that facilities and higher end freelancers have to deal with.
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19. Re: PNY VCQ6000-PB Quadro 6000 6GB 384-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 Workstation Video Card
Harm Millaard Jun 6, 2012 6:47 AM (in response to JEShort01)Jim,
We are currently testing both a short form test and a long form test and may have to use different result pages for that.
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20. Re: PNY VCQ6000-PB Quadro 6000 6GB 384-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 Workstation Video Card
Bill Gehrke Jun 6, 2012 8:33 AM (in response to Harm Millaard)I would like to add one historical note.
PPBM when I developed it back in 2005 was designed as a hardware evaluation tool for Premiere users. I was unsatisfied with all the unfounded "theories" in the forum at that time on hardware configurations. We have made amazing strides since that time. Since we cannot possibly cover all formats, it will have to be up to the users to extarpolate. to many of the formats.
Bill Gehrke
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21. Re: PNY VCQ6000-PB Quadro 6000 6GB 384-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 Workstation Video Card
Skulltrail Editing Jun 8, 2012 1:09 PM (in response to Bill Gehrke)Review Editing System Case ADK - ADK Tower: (8) 3.5" bays 6 are removable, (4) 5.25 Bays Firewire/USB2 in fr Power Supply Top Power - Striker 850 - 850W, up to 94% efficiency, 5 year Warranty Motherboard ADK - Core i7 SB-E, 4 PCIex16, 2 PCIe, up to 64Gig ram no firewire. Processor Intel - 6 Core i7 overclocked 4.5GHz or better with HT 12meg cache Processor None Cooling Intel - Intel Liquid cooler self contained unit (quiet) Cooling 2 ADK - ADK Quiet Case fans (2) 8DB Noctua Memory 32Gig (8x4gig)DDR3 1600 Low Voltage Hard Drive 1 Intel - 480G 520 Series SSD: 550MB read/520 write Hard Drive 2 Western Digital - 2000G Raid 0(2x 1TB 64Meg) 5 yr warranty Hard Drive 3 Western Digital - 2000G Raid 0(2x 1TB 64Meg) 5 yr warranty Hard Drive 4 None Hard Drive 5 None Extra Storage none Controller None Video GeForce GTX 680 4GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 Lifetime warranty. Video 2 Blackmagic Design - DeckLink Duo CD/CD-RW/DVD Asus - BW-12B1ST Internal Blu-ray Writer Pro Audio None NIC Included wired not wireless Modem SIIG - Firewire 2-port PCIe card. Firewire 1394a Operating System Microsoft - Windows 7 Pro 64 bit OEM Other Software Paragon Backup & Recovery 11 Suite with ADK recovery DVD. Other Software 2 NONE Other Software 3 NONE Monitor none Keyboards Logitech - Cordless Desktop Optical: Cordless Internet KB and Cordless Optical Mouse. Speakers None Warranty 2 year parts and labor, onsite pickup, Lifetime tech support. OK How about this pc or go with same but xeons i do use after effects and Dynamic link alot
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22. Re: PNY VCQ6000-PB Quadro 6000 6GB 384-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 Workstation Video Card
lasvideo Jun 8, 2012 1:16 PM (in response to Skulltrail Editing)The questions is, do you for see editing large files like Red / Prores 4444 / Epic or a like. If so, you might need the power of the dual Xeon Sandy Bridge EP system. If not, the single SB should do it. Hey, if you are buying from ADK, Eric should be your spirital advisor on such matters. He is a very smart and friendly guy.
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23. Re: PNY VCQ6000-PB Quadro 6000 6GB 384-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 Workstation Video Card
Skulltrail Editing Jun 8, 2012 1:24 PM (in response to lasvideo)thanks do you think the spec. look like this rig is fast
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24. Re: PNY VCQ6000-PB Quadro 6000 6GB 384-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 Workstation Video Card
lasvideo Jun 8, 2012 1:31 PM (in response to Skulltrail Editing)Sorry, until I switch Im a Mac guy switching to a Sandy Bridge Dual Xeon systems for reasons discussed above. It would be wise to call Eric who has much more intelligent things to say about it than I do.
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25. Re: PNY VCQ6000-PB Quadro 6000 6GB 384-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 Workstation Video Card
StevRo Jun 9, 2012 12:01 AM (in response to Skulltrail Editing)Hi Skulltrail,
Yes that is a nicely spec'd and fast machine for HD quality editing.
Remember speed is relative to the effects and transitions you use, size of the footage you edit.
Despite all the stuffas you hear from marketing the GPU still plays a fairly minor role as is it limited to a multi-camera mode, a few output codec's, rescaling & some effects. If you don't use these features then the work falls back to the CPU, only you really know your workflow, so if you use more CPU intensive work then go with the xeons as CS6 seems scale to ~12-16 real cores.
If you work with Cinema sized footage (3k-5k) then you'll want to consider having a robust disk subsystem. For smaller footage sizes (3k) target 600+ MB/sec'ish for reasonable playback 4-6 source disks. For 4-5k you'll wanna target about 1000-1500MB/Sec (8-12) source disks for good playback speed.
If you care about future proofing, look at the top-end of what is being tested/demo'd at the time of release of the software and buy one of those. You can generally expect the software to perform well for the next 2 versions..
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26. Re: PNY VCQ6000-PB Quadro 6000 6GB 384-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 Workstation Video Card
Bill Gehrke Jun 9, 2012 9:18 AM (in response to StevRo)[malicious web site link removed]
Sorry but the Russiki's got to my computer!
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27. Re: PNY VCQ6000-PB Quadro 6000 6GB 384-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 Workstation Video Card
lasvideo Jun 9, 2012 1:50 PM (in response to Bill Gehrke)"Sorry but the Russiki's got to my computer!"
Bill, one of the scary things about moving to the PC
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29. Re: PNY VCQ6000-PB Quadro 6000 6GB 384-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 Workstation Video Card
StevRo Jun 9, 2012 2:26 PM (in response to lasvideo)To take it completely off topic, @lasvideo, cyber criminals generally view mac's as soft targets as a group the users don't run anti-virus. Mac's are 7x more likely to have malware than pc's.
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30. Re: PNY VCQ6000-PB Quadro 6000 6GB 384-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 Workstation Video Card
lasvideo Jun 9, 2012 2:32 PM (in response to StevRo)Interesting theory gents, but in 4 years of Mac use I never had a problem. Eight years on a PC was fraught with issues. Some due to the protection software fighting the edit software. Id be willing to wager that if 1 million Mac users were interviewed you would have about 1% complain about virus/malware problems. Compare that to a projected 95% of PC users and I think I make a point on most folks experience with this stuff. Iknow its an Achilles heel of sensitivity, but it exists and its a constant PITA and issue. We can bicker about this till the cows come in, that doesnt change the nature of the beast.
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31. Re: PNY VCQ6000-PB Quadro 6000 6GB 384-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 Workstation Video Card
Skulltrail Editing Jun 9, 2012 2:40 PM (in response to lasvideo)Does Adobe work great on a mac or better on PC
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32. Re: PNY VCQ6000-PB Quadro 6000 6GB 384-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 Workstation Video Card
Harm Millaard Jun 9, 2012 2:53 PM (in response to Skulltrail Editing)From my perspective it works better on PC, going by the number of posts from MAC users. There may be other factors here, general lack of expertise of MAC users who don't know much about computers and expect everything to work after plugging into the wall outlet, having to get acquainted with using native formats instead of intermediate formats in either ProRes or QT, learning a new workflow, missing effects and transitions that are not available on MAC that are available on PC, and MAC's being slower and much more costly than equally equipped PC's, etc.
Not to get into a fighting war MAC - PC, it is your choice to go for one platform or the other. Some crave the MAC environment, others the Windows environment. So be it.
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33. Re: PNY VCQ6000-PB Quadro 6000 6GB 384-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 Workstation Video Card
controlz3 Oct 4, 2012 11:43 PM (in response to Skulltrail Editing)So what did you end up buying, and how is it working out? How much did you spend US dollars?
I'm in the same boat right now, and I don't like the processors DELL is locking me into on the T7600. It seems over priced.
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34. Re: PNY VCQ6000-PB Quadro 6000 6GB 384-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 Workstation Video Card
Skulltrail Editing Dec 8, 2012 7:10 PM (in response to controlz3)i didn't go with the dell, made my own k3930





