18 Replies Latest reply on Jun 8, 2012 4:14 PM by lasvideo

    PrCS6 Mac + AJA.  How's it working?

    Jim Curtis Level 3

      For me and my test Lion partition that I created just to use this combo:  Not good.

       

      It starts in sync (more or less*), then slowly drifts out of sync.  Relaunching doesn't fix it.  A reboot does.   Temporarily.

       

      Trim Mode in Full Screen is totally not usable.  Both the monitor and the Program tab drop so many frames, I can't tell any difference between a 1 frame trim before and after.

       

      There's about a 10-frame delay in the audio meter excursion when AJA is enabled.  Turning it off restores the instantaneous performance that is expected.  The delay is so large, it's very confusing to see what's going on.

       

      I'm wondering if those of you with AJA hardware are getting better results.

       

       

       

      * More or less:  Seems like AJA audio is never really in sync with the video.  I think we need a delay compensation box setting for each user's hardware.  But, that's something to rag on AJA for.  I think.

       

      MacPro3,1 - 32G RAM - 10.7.4 - nVidia Quadro 4000 with stock Lion driver - CS6 updated - super fast external RAID - Mostly editing with ProRes422, ProRes4444 and XDCam HD footage.

        • 1. Re: PrCS6 Mac + AJA.  How's it working?
          needles27 Level 3

          I'm having a similar experience.  AJA tech support suggested switching from 10-bit to 8-bit output when using compressed footage, and I'm not so sure that solved the problem.  Also, on my external monitor, I have an option for changing how video signals are processed - switching from "Normal" to "Fast Mode."  Maybe you have the same thing on your monitor?   Maybe you can give those a try to see if it helps?

           

          Definitely a delay in the external monitor by a few frames when playing back and it lags behind the program monitor when scrubbing.  You can really see the delay when you click around on the timeline and the program monitor updates before the external monitor. 

           

          I haven't played back really long sequences yet, but I believe you when you say it will slowly drift more out of sync as you go.  I have also noticed that when I am playing back a RAM preview in AE, the external monitor is dropping frames and lagging - it becomes useless.

           

          Also - this may or may not be AJA related - sometimes my timeline will play back in slow motion and the only fix is to restart. 

           

          Finally, I am experiencing the same audio issues as a few others have mentioned - no audio at times, distorted audio, audio cutting out after a few seconds.  I can sometimes clear it by clicking away to the desktop and back again, but usually i have to either toggle audio outputs or restart. Sending a sequence over to Audition will also cut the audio output completely and I have to restart both programs.  Emails into AJA tech suppport on that.

           

          As much love as I have for AJA, I thought we had to wait the extra month to get the drivers so the bugs could be worked out.  But, it seems pretty flaky to me at this point.  Coupled with the woes I have talked about in the other thread, I am running a very unstable and sick editing environment at the moment.  But that is just me looking to commiserate...

          • 2. Re: PrCS6 Mac + AJA.  How's it working?
            Kevin-Monahan Adobe Employee

            Have you guys contacted AJA tech support? http://www.aja.com/en/support/

            • 3. Re: PrCS6 Mac + AJA.  How's it working?
              Jim Curtis Level 3

              Kevin, what do you mean, have we contacted AJA?  Are you implying that Adobe isn't the problem here?

               

              I'm seriously thinking of switching back to Media Composer.

               

              My LHi card is performing outstanding there.  Dragging the CTI is smooth, and I see every frame.  No lag.  No delay.  No massive number of dropped frames.  Video plays in sync with the audio perfectly, just as it does with Avid's expensive hardware.

               

              It's night and day between the implementation in Pr CS5.5 and CS6.  By comparison, Pr and AJA fail big time.  BIG TIME!

               

              The main downside I've experienced with Avid + AJA is that going into Effects mode with "Client Monitor" enabled bogs down the responsiveness of the interface.  No biggie.  Shut it off to do effects work, and then turn it back on when you're finished.  There's a blue button on the Timeline panel that makes this a snap.

               

              I don't know where to point the finger, but I do think Adobe must be at least partially responsible.  AJA had to write different drivers for Avid and Adobe, so it's possible that they just didn't put a full court press into Adobe as they did for Avid.

               

              I wish Adobe would take a look at how Avid has successfully integrated third-party video cards into their product, and shoot for that kind of performance. 

               

              I am severely disappointed with how Pr and AJA are currently working together in CS6, and how it never worked very well in CS5 or 5.5. They should reconsider their marketing claims.  Avid + AJA worked stellarly out of the box from day one.  It would have been better if Adobe had just told us that external monitoring is impossible, given their choice of architecture, rather than to get our hopes up, and put this out.

               

              Needles27, I did try all the playback options, and none of the various combinations worked to my expectations.  My monitor doesn't have a "fast" mode either.

               

              This presents a real dilemma for me.  Pr now allows us to make a lot of changes during playback.  The most annoying thing about MC now is that anything other than adding marks will stop playback.  I've come to depend on Ae for my titling and effects, and going back and forth between MC and Ae isn't fun.  Or easy.  I suppose upgrading to Symphony software would help with color-correction, but man, that's another thousand bucks, and that price expires in nine days.

              • 4. Re: PrCS6 Mac + AJA.  How's it working?
                Kevin-Monahan Adobe Employee

                Jim Curtis wrote:

                 

                Kevin, what do you mean, have we contacted AJA?  Are you implying that Adobe isn't the problem here?

                 

                I'm not implying fault for anyone, it's just one of the first things I do when dealing with AJA hardware problems and NLEs. They're very responsive to problems with their hardware. My experience with them as a user was top notch.

                Jim Curtis wrote:

                 

                I don't know where to point the finger, but I do think Adobe must be at least partially responsible.  AJA had to write different drivers for Avid and Adobe, so it's possible that they just didn't put a full court press into Adobe as they did for Avid.

                 

                We have users reporting that the new drivers are running smoothly:
                http://forums.creativecow.net/thread/3/925977
                http://forums.creativecow.net/thread/3/925928

                 

                We need to isolate the problem you're having and either fix it or file a feature request.

                 

                It would have been better if Adobe had just told us that external monitoring is impossible, given their choice of architecture, rather than to get our hopes up, and put this out.

                 

                Again, most users are not reporting any problems.

                 

                Monitoring and tape transport could be improved. We definitely know about that: http://www.adobe.com/go/wish

                 

                Thanks for your feedback.

                You know we'd hate to lose ya!

                • 5. Re: PrCS6 Mac + AJA.  How's it working?
                  Jim Curtis Level 3

                  Kevin, you're not going to lose me.  Adobe already has my money for the upgrade.  What's at risk for Adobe is that I might be converted from an outspoken evangelist to an outspoken critic.  Probably won't affect your xmas bonus.

                   

                  And I doubt I'll ever give up Ae, or Ps,  or Ai.  They're all critical for my work.

                   

                  I read all the posts on your links.  IMO, these hardly qualify as confirmation of stable performance.  "It works!" seems to be the chorus, with ONE person, Tom Daigon, saying that it plays in sync.  Hardly any of these are enthusiastic, ringing endorsements.

                   

                  I've also experienced the audio dropouts for the first time this morning.  And, audio just stopped working at one point.  Relaunch fixed it.  This was a problem in CS5.5, too.  Sorry to see it still exists.

                   

                  I've yet to see anybody claim that dragging the CTI in Pr is on par with Avid.  I can live with dropped frames while dragging, but I can't live with that for playback or trimming.  I don't know what else I can do to optimize my system.  Mine's almost identical to Tom Daigon's.  He's running 10.7.3.  I'm on 10.7.4.  I suppose that could be the difference.  I might give that a try, but jeez, this is painful.

                  Kevin Monahan wrote:

                  Monitoring and tape transport could be improved.

                   

                  Well, yeah.  Monitoring is what I'm reporting about here.

                   

                  I agree that AJA is a top notch company, and they've been there when I needed support.  I will contact them, and see if they'll fall on their sword.

                  • 6. Re: PrCS6 Mac + AJA.  How's it working?
                    Kevin-Monahan Adobe Employee

                    We have AJA cards in the lab. I'll be down there next week, so I can test your issues then.

                     

                    I'm sorry you're having trouble. Thanks for giving AJA a call. Please let us know what you find out. In the mean time, I'll see if I can get more attention to your issue. We really want this to work well for all our customers.

                    • 7. Re: PrCS6 Mac + AJA.  How's it working?
                      lasvideo Level 4

                      Sorry to be a bummer but if you are having problems with Kona 3 the problem is systemic to your computer and not an AJA / Adobe problem.

                       

                      Of course AJAs tech support is a good way to fix what might be wrong.

                       

                       

                      I have been running the 2 latest drivers from Adobe (need both Kona and Adobe ones- need to uninstall old ones before installing new ones) since they were recently posted. I have no delayed video, no audio issues...nada.Everything is rock solid. I can understand your frustration but when things work on lots of systems, if its not working on yours thats an issue unique to that computer.

                      • 8. Re: PrCS6 Mac + AJA.  How's it working?
                        Jim Curtis Level 3

                        Actually, it's helpful - and hopeful - to hear success stories. 

                         

                        I'm not reading about "rock solid" "everything" on "lots of systems."  You seem to be one of the lucky few.  Perhaps the other lucky ones are busy working, and not scouring the forums for people to help.

                         

                        (Please review my points about how well the Kona works with Avid MC.  Now, THAT'S rock solid.)

                         

                        There is but one Adobe driver from AJA at this point for CS6, so it would be hard to not have the right one.  And, I do have the recommended AJA Control Panel driver, 10.3.1.

                         

                        What OS are you on?  What kind of footage and sequences are you having such good luck with?  Are you able to drag your CTI with abandon, and see incredibly fast updates in the Pr Program tab AND your AJA output device?

                         

                        I wanted to post back and say I loaded a 1080p30 ProRes4444 sequence, and it started playing in sync.  At first.  But, a few drags of the CTI here and there, and it started dropping frames and losing sync.  Got me all excited for a few minutes.  When I began this thread, I had only been working in NTSC Sequences, which in theory should be even easier and faster.

                         

                        I have reported my issues to AJA.  When I hear back, I'll recap their response.

                        • 9. Re: PrCS6 Mac + AJA.  How's it working?
                          lasvideo Level 4

                          System

                           

                          Early Mac Pro 2008 3,1

                          2 - 3. 4 Xeons

                          24 GB ram

                          Quadro 4000

                          Maxx Digital raid array (750MB/sec.)

                          Lion 10.7.4     

                           

                          Red / P2 / h.264 / DnxHD / Photo-JPEG / etc. play fine.

                           

                          I drag with abandon.

                           

                          NO frame delay at all between PrP PGM and External Panny montior.

                           

                          Havnet tried Proress 4444 at all. Thats a very big file.

                           

                          I hope they can resolve your frustration.

                          • 10. Re: PrCS6 Mac + AJA.  How's it working?
                            Jim Curtis Level 3

                            Our systems are very similar.  I have the 3 GHz CPUs and a faster RAID.  The CPUs shouldn't matter on intraframe footage.  I've already reinstalled CSPP once.

                             

                            I have one more question for you, please:  Did you install the nVidia driver "Retail_270.00.00f06?"  I did not.  There's a "serious error" thread on the forum here.  I didn't install that driver, and I'm not having the problems those in that thread are having.

                             

                            If I have to choose between "serious errors" and out of sync, I guess I'd choose out of sync.

                             

                            I'll keep troubleshooting. 


                            I AM glad to hear that one person is having success.  Gives me hope.

                            • 11. Re: PrCS6 Mac + AJA.  How's it working?
                              lasvideo Level 4

                              Jim, the only folks that come here usually are a small part of the population that are looking for answers to their problems. Everybody else is editing or doing other things 

                               

                              Here is my Nvidia CUDA & GPU driver Preferences screen available in System preferences.

                               

                              Screen Shot 2012-06-08 at 3.25.35 PM.png

                              • 12. Re: PrCS6 Mac + AJA.  How's it working?
                                Jim Curtis Level 3

                                Not "everybody" who's here is having problems.  I poke my nose in when rendering or exporting to see if I can lend a hand.  I don't think I'm the only one.  Since things are going so well for you, I suspect you're here for the same reason, yes?

                                 

                                Anyway... we have the same drivers installed.  Neither one of us has installed the latest release, 270.00.00f06, dated 2012.05.10, which might account for our relatively good fortune, viz the "serious errors."

                                 

                                Thanks for posting that.  The search continues, armed with a bit more intelligence.

                                • 13. Re: PrCS6 Mac + AJA.  How's it working?
                                  lasvideo Level 4

                                  My reply was done in good humor. Hence the smiley face.

                                   

                                  Good luck on your quest. 

                                  • 14. Re: PrCS6 Mac + AJA.  How's it working?
                                    needles27 Level 3

                                    Those are the same drivers I have, (7.18.18 270.05.25f01) and I am having the Serious Error problems and out-of-sync problems...And I had them with 270.00.00f06 So, those drivers are not the deciding factor.  It is something else, I guess.  You guys are on the Quadro 4000, so that is one difference.  Just another data point. 

                                    • 15. Re: PrCS6 Mac + AJA.  How's it working?
                                      Jim Curtis Level 3

                                      lasvideo wrote:

                                       

                                      My reply was done in good humor. Hence the smiley face.

                                       

                                      Good luck on your quest. 

                                       

                                      I got that, brother.  Mine was, too (sans the smiley).  Thanks!

                                      • 16. Re: PrCS6 Mac + AJA.  How's it working?
                                        Jim Curtis Level 3

                                        needles27, have you contacted AJA?  I'm waiting to see if they have anything to say about this sync issue.  It is starting to look like your GPU may be a suspect.  Possibly footage, too.  Are you getting the errors with intraframe codecs?

                                        • 17. Re: PrCS6 Mac + AJA.  How's it working?
                                          needles27 Level 3

                                          I did contact AJA - What I heard about sync was relayed earlier, whgich hasn't really helped.  I haven't heard back about the audio issue, but I have seen enough people complaining about it - mostly on the Creative Cow forums - that there must really be an issue there.  I'll post anything they say in response.

                                          And, you may be right about my GPU, although it was working fine with CS5.5.  Are you liking your Quadro?  Do you have 2 monitors or just one?  I am only editing H.264 and ProRes, and see no difference in the amount of errors and I am now running on software only mode to avoid the issue.

                                          • 18. Re: PrCS6 Mac + AJA.  How's it working?
                                            lasvideo Level 4

                                            Have you guys tried deleteing your Preview Renders and your Media Cache yet? If not, just for grins...