13 Replies Latest reply on Jun 10, 2012 9:54 AM by Peter Spier

    24bit PNG font weight issue

    Droprename100

      Hi all,

       

      I have a problem which I can't seem to find any record of anyone else having in these forums, yet I can replicate it no matter which machine I go on in our creative agency using CS5.

       

      It's thus:

      I have a page of content laid out the way I want it. I inserts a 24big PNG with transparency, and suddenly my font weight looks bold (though the font weight still says "regular").

      Exporting to a PDF carries across this issue, the fonts on the pages with the PNGs go "bold", and so the final product looks terrible, as pages without PNGs with transparency look the correct weight.

       

      It's driving me mad. Can anyone suggest a fix? I have inserted an example screengrab below.

       

      Thanks!

      24bit-png-problem.jpg

        • 1. Re: 24bit PNG font weight issue
          BobLevine MVP & Adobe Community Professional

          Put the text on its own layer above anything with transparency.

           

           

           

          Bob

          • 2. Re: 24bit PNG font weight issue
            Droprename100 Level 1

            Thanks Bob, just done that now and am experiencing the same issue, in both the new text layer (above anything else) and the layer I was experiencing this with previously. Hmmm.

            • 3. Re: 24bit PNG font weight issue
              Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

              Even following Bob's suggestion it will probably still look bolder. This is a known display artifact with transparency and text. It ends to show on screen in exported PDF as well, and in low resolution prints. It does not usually show in high resolution (press) output.

              • 4. Re: 24bit PNG font weight issue
                Droprename100 Level 1

                Peter, you're right. Exporting for high-res has certinaly improved the font weight (though it's not perfect, but bareable). The touble is that this needs to be an interactive-style PDF, and thus a relatively compact file size is required. High-res makes the file size way too massive for sending around to people.

                 

                Is a high-res export really the only solution?

                • 5. Re: 24bit PNG font weight issue
                  BobLevine MVP & Adobe Community Professional

                  Peter wasn’t referring to the export, he was referring to the printed piece.

                   

                   

                   

                  Bob

                  • 6. Re: 24bit PNG font weight issue
                    Droprename100 Level 1

                    Hi Bob, The exported file for high-res as a PDF does look better. The trouble is the high-res PDF is 13mb vs 4mbs when exported as Interactive PDF.

                    This file wont actually ever be printed, it's only designed to be viewed as a PDF, so it matters note how the text looks when printed if that makes sense.

                    So was wondering if there is any other trick to getting the font weight to look right in the exported PDF other than exporting high res (press) which results in a huge filesize.

                    • 7. Re: 24bit PNG font weight issue
                      Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                      Basically, no. The best you can do is put transparency on all pages so the look is consistent and not as obvious to someone who hasn't seen it without the transparency emboldening.

                      • 8. Re: 24bit PNG font weight issue
                        Bo LeBeau Level 4

                        Two thing I noticed: The PNG files are placed on a page that has no background image (its just a white sheet of paper)

                        Why do you need the PNG to have transparency at all? You could save it in a format that doesn't have tranparency and the page would look fine and the bolding of the text would go away.

                         

                        Another issue which is a bit off topic; your text mentions:  . . .  and more recently with desktop publishing software like Aldus Pagemaker including versions of Lorem Ipsum. This looks like it was written almost 20 years ago. Aldus Pagemaker became Adobe Pagemaker in 1994 - 18 years ago. You could at least drop the "more recently" and rewrite the sentence to make the information more up to date.

                         

                        Quark and InDesign both have versions of Lorem Ipsum that can be used for placeholder text.

                        • 9. Re: 24bit PNG font weight issue
                          [Jongware] Most Valuable Participant

                          > The PNG files are placed on a page that has no background image (its just a white sheet of paper)

                           

                          No, these are Mac screen shots and contain an alpha shadow around them, and the OP overlapped some of them.

                           

                          But I agree: ditch the alpha in those images. You could either crop off the shadows with Photoshop, and then flatten them before saving (because the presence of a layer will trigger ID's Transparency detection, whether it is used or not in the image), or, if you like those shadows, composite the images in Photoshop and *then* flatten them.

                           

                          (I also agree on the factual content correction. Desktop Publishing is not "recent", and Aldus Pagemaker is not either :-) )

                          • 10. Re: 24bit PNG font weight issue
                            Droprename100 Level 1

                            Thanks to everyone for their help. The upshot is that there isn't a way around this. So i'll go with the artworking the layers in Photoshop and saving out a file format without transparency  (boo, no tweaking layout elements on-the-fly directly in Indesign).

                             

                            Seems like such a fundamental flaw in an otherwise good program. Anyone know if this is the case in CS6?

                             

                            But I am glad that it wasnt user-error here and I'm not mad after all!

                             

                            By the way, the screenshot the copy is just some text I grabbed off the first website I could find web so you couldnt read the top-secret content, this is a pitch after all...

                            • 11. Re: 24bit PNG font weight issue
                              Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                              Behavior in CS6 is exactly the same with regard to type and transparency.

                               

                              Certainly, if you can use non-transparent images that's one solution, and I'm not sure why you think that means you cannot tweak layout element in ID. Waht sort of tweaking are we talking about here?

                              • 12. Re: 24bit PNG font weight issue
                                Droprename100 Level 1

                                Peter, thanks for the info about CS6. Think I'll save my pennies then.

                                 

                                There's several "moodboard" style pages of creative. You know the type, with lots of magazine clippings etc on different layers, often overlapping each other.

                                 

                                In an ideal world, every element would be a PNG 24 so you're free to rearrange as you see fit for optimal positioning around the copy.

                                 

                                It’s not the end of the world having to do this in Photoshop and exporting with no transparency as one image, just means switching between the two programs a couple hundred times. I'm a real perfectionist tweaker which doesn’t help.

                                • 13. Re: 24bit PNG font weight issue
                                  Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                                  You don't need to make one composite image. You can place and position multiple non-transparent images in the same way you are working now. The only problem I can see is that if you are adding drop shadows or glows, they don't scale with the image when applied in ID when you have your prefs set to apply scaling to content (and I strongly believe this is the correct way to work -- shadows in the real world are a product of the distance from and object to the surface on which the shadow is projected, not the size of the object, so they should not change just becasue you scale the image), but if they are part of the image that you flatten in Photoshop they will scale if you cahnge the size later in ID.