14 Replies Latest reply on Jun 15, 2012 4:02 PM by the_wine_snob

    Rendering clips

    FRED831

      Hi

      When I render in PRE10 (windows 7) it used to give me a drop down rendering box telling me how many clips / frames and the time left, and replaces the red line on  top of the timeline to a green one. Now when I go to Timeline menu and click Render Work Area, it just plays the video and I have no red line on the top of the timeline when I have added new clips If I save the project close down and reopen the project I then get the Rendering box come on screen. and  some parts of the timeline have turned green and a good part of the top of the timeline is blank neither red or green. Any idea what I have done?

      Thank for you help

        • 1. Re: Rendering clips
          nealeh Level 5

          I think you are looking for problems that don't exist.

           

          When you add video clips to your timeline you don't want to see any lines, red or green. This means that you have correctly matched your video format with the correct PRE Project Setting.

           

          When you start to edit your project, e.g. adding effects or transitions, you will see a red line. This indicates that you have performed an operation that will change the clip when shared. You do NOT have to render if your preview is adequate to let you see the effect of applying the effect.

           

          But, should you want a smoother preview, then you can render the preview by pressing the Enter key. After the preview render is complete the red line turns green.

           

          Summary:

          • Red Lines from adding your first clip: Bad. Your project setting does not match the clip format.
          • No lines: perfect, the clip format and project setting are properly matched.
          • Red Line after editing some of the timeline: Fine. Provided you started with no lines it merely indicates that when you share your project PRE will apply your editing to the output file.
          • Green Lines: If you need a smoother preview during the editing phase you can press Enter and PRE will create a temporary render for you. When complete the line will turn green.

           

          Note that Still Photos will always initially import with a red line showing as they are stills and not video.

           

          Cheers,
          --
          Neale
          Insanity is hereditary, you get it from your children

          • 2. Re: Rendering clips
            the_wine_snob Level 9

            Neale has done a great job of explaining what Rendering is. This ARTICLE also covers many aspects of that function.

             

            Depending on the footage, and what is being done on the Timeline, I have many Projects, that never get Rendered, and I just go directly to output. However, and especially with heavy Keyframed animation of Effects, I might set my WAB (Work Area Bar) to a small area (where I am working), and I might Render dozens of time, as I tweak Keyframes.

             

            Good luck,

             

            Hunt

            1 person found this helpful
            • 3. Re: Rendering clips
              rtk1958

              Neale,

               

              Very useful information, thanks for the tips.

               

              Followup question: 

               

              A little background:  I am new at the whole video editing and PE scene and have so far created slideshows of still photos & images using multiple video tracks with multiple effects and transitions, all synchronized to a sound track.  This had worked pretty well with PE 7 on my computer.  This is my first foray into a video source editing project with PE (i.e. PE 7). 

               

              So if I extract one 10 second clip out of an imported video AVI (720P HD, 30 fps) file and drag it down to the timeline and get no lines, then so far so good.  As expected, the clip on the timeline plays smoothly in the preview pane as the CTI moves across the clip.  Now, if I add a simple sharpness control effect to the clip and tweak the sharpness just slightly and the subsequent playback (without rendering) is now jerky, uneven, and obviously skipping frames, do you think this is telling me that my computer has reached its limits on processing power?   I know I could render the clip, but if unrendered playback performance of a single clip on a single track with just one effect is that bad, it makes one wonder if it's time for a platform upgrade.   Note I am using an HP laptop running Vista with some Vista performance tweaks already enabled.   The laptop has an Intel Duo core CPU running at 2.0GHz with 4GB of RAM, and an Intel video accelerator I believe with at least 128MB of memory.

               

              Thanks,

              Todd

              • 4. Re: Rendering clips
                John T Smith Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                >AVI (720P HD, 30 fps)

                 

                What is the exact CODEC inside that file?

                 

                Read Bill Hunt on a file type as WRAPPER http://forums.adobe.com/thread/440037

                What is a CODEC... a Primer http://forums.adobe.com/thread/546811

                What CODEC is INSIDE that file? http://forums.adobe.com/thread/440037

                .

                Report back with the codec details of your file, use the programs below... a screen shot works well to SHOW people what you are doing

                http://forums.adobe.com/thread/592070?tstart=30

                .

                For PC http://mediainfo.sourceforge.net/en or http://www.headbands.com/gspot/

                • 5. Re: Rendering clips
                  the_wine_snob Level 9

                  Todd,

                   

                  Even adjusting simple Effects will require changes in the pixels. The line above the Clip will turn red. The smoothness of playback will depend on a lot of factors, but computer power can certainly be part of that equation. However, the exact Effect will usually determine how well an un-Rendered Clip plays back.

                   

                  I often add several Effects, and depending on which ones they are, might be able to finish that editing, and then Render, to get a "final look." However, with some Effects, especially if I need to view that Effect in its ultimate state, I might Render and view, between Effects. It just depends.

                   

                  For smooth playback, here are a few things, that can play a role:

                   

                  System:

                  • CPU
                  • I/O, i.e. HDD's, their speed, controller type and how allocated
                  • RAM

                   

                  Effect:

                  • Will depend totally on the exact Effect. Some are easy on playback, but some take a lot of computing power.

                   

                  Source Footage:

                  • CODEC of the Source Footage will have a big impact. H.264 and WMV are two, that take a lot of processing power to play back smoothly

                   

                  Good luck, and hope that helps.

                   

                  Hunt

                  1 person found this helpful
                  • 6. Re: Rendering clips
                    rtk1958 Level 1

                    Hi John,

                     

                    There appears to be a fundamental ignorance at play here and it's all mine.   Now that I understand that AVI (like MOV, WMV, MPEG2, etc.) are just media packaging strategies/technologies, each of which could contain up to 100's of differently encoded media components, your question about what CODEC was used to populate the AVI file I'm using makes things very clear.

                     

                    Back to the crux of my problem then.   I'm trying to edit 1080P footage from a GoPro Hero2 camera that apparently produces MP4 files populated with encoded media of a type relatively unknown to man , especially, PE 7.   The file I imported into PE 7 was an AVI 720P 30fps file created by GoPro's editing software, CineForm, from the original GoPro camera's output, a 1080P MP4 file.  According to GSpot, the CODEC used to create the AVI file is most likely a GoPro-specific variation called "CineForm 10-bit Visually Perfect HD (Wavelet)", or "CFHD" for short.   Why am I not surprised that PE 7 may have some problems with that?

                     

                    FYI: below are the PE 7 NTSC presets:

                     

                    PE 7 Presets.jpg

                     

                    FYI: Below is the GSpot info on the AVI file created by the GoPro CineForm software:

                     

                    GSpot Info on AVI Created by GoPro CineForm.jpg

                     

                    So the $50,000 question is:  what do I have to do to get my GoPro camera's 1080P MP4 files converted to a video format that PE 7 can handle?   Is there a way to add the GoPro "CFHD" AVI CODEC to PE 7?   Would there be another tool out there that could convert the GoPro content to "DV-AVI Type II" that PE likes so much?   It appears as though GSpot was "smart" enough to find and use GoPro's "GoPro-CineForm Decoder-2" to decode the AVI file.   Can we make PE 7 do that too?

                     

                    Thanks for your help,

                    Todd Killian

                    • 7. Re: Rendering clips
                      rtk1958 Level 1

                      Thanks Bill for the useful tips.   Very helpful. 

                       

                      Todd

                      • 8. Re: Rendering clips
                        the_wine_snob Level 9

                        Back before AVCHD was fully supported by either PrE, or PrPro (PrE actually got it before PrPro did), a lot of people used CineForm, and I think that it was their NeoScene. IIRC, it had the full compliment of CODEC's.

                         

                        Now, does the Go-Pro have a utility disc with it? If so, then you might have the necessry CODEC's on it, however it might not be easy to locate it/them. Camera mfgrs. will usually include necessary CODEC's, but they may be a separate install (the CODEC's go into the system), or they might install along with the driver for the camera. Most often, nowadays, they install with editing, or cataloging software, and little note is made of that.

                         

                        Also, G-Spot has the capability to tell you the CODEC's installed on your system, under Tables. I would check to see if you have the CineForm CODEC already. Note: if it gives you a bunch of errors regarding Adobe MainConcept CODEC's, you can safely ignore those - though usually they are flagged in red, so they DO catch your attention. This ARTICLE goes into more detail.

                         

                        Good luck,

                         

                        Hunt

                        1 person found this helpful
                        • 9. Re: Rendering clips
                          rtk1958 Level 1

                          Hi John

                           

                          Quick followup.   From GoPro's website, they state: "Any editing software that accepts AVI or MOV files should be able to work with the GoPro CineForm files directly."   So given that AVI is just a container that could contain video encoded in any number of different ways, how can they make a statement like that?   They are saying what most people incorrectly think:  if it's a .avi file, then anything that supports .avi will work. 

                           

                          Thanks,
                          Todd

                          • 10. Re: Rendering clips
                            nealeh Level 5

                            While having no personal experience with GoPro it does seem from frequent posts in these forums that PRE does not handle them well.

                             

                            This Tips & Tricks article may help:

                             

                            Go-Pro Helmet Cam Footage Editing Tips

                             

                            Cheers,
                            --
                            Neale
                            Insanity is hereditary, you get it from your children

                            • 11. Re: Rendering clips
                              rtk1958 Level 1

                              Bill,

                               

                              Yes, the decoder GSpot used, "GoPro-CineForm Decoder-2", to decode the AVI file created by CineForm IS on GSpot's table of installed CODECs.  Maybe this explains why PE can play the file so well.   However, does this necessarily imply that PE can edit CineForm-encoded files? 

                               

                              Thanks,

                              Todd

                              • 12. Re: Rendering clips
                                the_wine_snob Level 9

                                While I have never used it, I believe that others have had few problems with the CineForm CODEC's.

                                 

                                Usually, if a CODEC is missing, or not installed properly, one gets an error message on Import, regarding the missing CODEC. That was why I suggested looking for that CODEC on your system - you did not mention that normal CODEC error, so I assumed that you had it.

                                 

                                As for how smoothly PrE can playback certain CODEC's, that is dependent on THE CODEC. As mentioned, H.264 requires heavy-duty CPU power. Duo-Core and Pentium D CPU's will very likely never play that material back smoothly.

                                 

                                For playback of much other material, a lot will depend on one's I/O sub-system, and the speed of the HDD's, plus how they are allocated.

                                 

                                Good luck,

                                 

                                Hunt

                                 

                                PS - Guess this shows how little I know about the Go-Pro cameras, in that I thought all recent ones used AVCHD (will often show as Advanced Video CODEC), which is a specific sub-set of H.264. I always thought of CineForm as being a conversion format, for systems that could not handle H.264, or had issues with AVCHD. Learned something new here, unless you ran the Go-Pro footage through NeoScene.

                                1 person found this helpful
                                • 13. Re: Rendering clips
                                  rtk1958 Level 1

                                  Hi Bill,

                                   

                                  Well, everyone keeps directing me to your post about editing GoPro video with Premiere.   The only problem is, for the "R5" format you define, you advise users: "for R5 use AVCHD 1080p30".   Only problem is that PE 7 doesn't have an AVCHD 1080p30 preset.   Not sure if PE 10 does either, is there a way to find out?

                                   

                                  Your post talks about editing the 1080p MP4 files, after updating the header.   I've been trying to edit the AVI 720p files converted from the 1080p MP4 files using CineForm.  The thinking is primarily that 720p looks good enough on smaller screens and it would be less of a load on my PC to edit 720p content than 1080p content.   Would like to find a way to make the 720p AVI files work.

                                   

                                  Is it possible that PE is able to play the AVI files with another codec, but using that codec causes editing problems?

                                   

                                  Is it possible that PE is playing the AVI with the CineForm codec, but the CineForm codec is not conducive for editing?  This would directly contradict what GoPro says on their website, i.e., that CineForm AVI can be edited by "any editor that supports AVI".

                                   

                                  Is there a way to verify what codec PE is using to play the AVI file?

                                   

                                  Thanks,

                                  Todd

                                  • 14. Re: Rendering clips
                                    the_wine_snob Level 9

                                    Todd,

                                     

                                    I only compiled that Go-Pro article, and did not really contribute anything to it. All of the instructions, utilities, and details, all come from other users. I did try to give attribution to them, but have never used Go-Pro myself.

                                     

                                    Sorry that I cannot be of direct help.

                                     

                                    Good luck,

                                     

                                    Hunt