27 Replies Latest reply on Sep 11, 2014 2:12 PM by petergaraway

    Lag with Blackmagic Intensity Pro

    nullsebasvideo Level 1

      I just got Adobe Prod. Premium CS6 as well as a Blackmagic Intensity Pro monitoring card and an eVGA GTX570 graphics card, and to avoid problems, I did a new Windows installation from scratch on a formatted drive. This was done today, so all the drivers and program updates are completely up to date.

       

      I know the Intensity Pro is about the cheapest card you can get to preview video correctly on a TV set, since graphics cards don't display video in the same way as a dedicated editing card does, so I'm still happy with it, but I would like to find it if I can get around this annoyance until I can get a better card, or if perhaps it's a flaw in Premiere and a more expensive card would not make a difference.

       

      The card has about 200 miliseconds of lag compared to the program monitor in the Premiere window. This is not really terrible, but it becomes distracting when watching the TV screen and the change of frame in a cut happens first in the computer monitor in a small window within Premiere, and a fraction of a second later on the TV screen. Also, it makes it difficult when I have to sync cuts to changes in the music. I guess in that type of situation it would be better to do the cuts on the computer monitor and then switch to the TV set for color correction.

       

      But this is not just in regular playback. It gets worse when scrubbing the timeline, or moving with JKL. In those cases, sometimes it takes it like a second to catch up to what I see on the program monitor.

       

      I also have a GrassValley HD Spark monitoring card for Edius that while it has a little lag, it's much shorter than this and it's not so distracting. That card was connected using the same cable to the same TV set, so that tells me the Intensity Pro has some extra lag, but it's hard to complain about it on a $190 card. However, I was wondering if anyone here has found themselves in the same problem and found a solution? I searched but so far I couldn't find anything.

       

      And as far as these type of cards, what is the least expensive one that will give me perfect preview with no lag?

        • 1. Re: Lag with Blackmagic Intensity Pro
          josephs51576386 Level 3

          I have the black magic decklink studio 2 in the production control area where we work. I used it to replace our DVC pro decks so I had it hooked up to our old switcher and we used to play promos for programs that we did live to tape. Anyways though to answer your question I never experinced any lag when using the card. It always was exactly in sync on both of the computer monitor and the feed running to our switcher. At least as far as I could tell.

           

          On my computer at work in my office though I have my pc hooked up to a DVC pro deck via firewire and I have a professional sony monitor hooked up off the DVC pro deck. Now while I edit in my office there has always been a noticble delay between my sony monitor and my computers monitor. Although like you mentioned I just simply use my sony monitor for color checks nothing more nothing less.

           

          One thing to think about though is that in my personal experince when I have MPE's GPU accleration turned on my monitor I have hooked up in my office doesn't always function properly, then when I turn it off it acts normal again. So you may want to try turning your MPE's gpu accleration off to see if that makes a difference or not.

           

          Although I can't say for sure if you got the BMD decklink studio 2 you'd have the same experince I have had with it as far as sync between monitors go but I can for sure say it's been a good card for $500.00.

          • 2. Re: Lag with Blackmagic Intensity Pro
            nullsebasvideo Level 1

            Thanks, I might try that one, although it's a bit over my budget at $660.25, but I'll have to if I don't have a choice.

             

            What about the Matrox MXO2 Mini, has anybody tried it?

             

            About turning off MPE GPU's acceleration, that is not an option for me. I'm used to edit in Edius, where almost everything you do is real time and you barely have to render anything ever for previewing purposes, and Edius doesn't even require an expensive Nvidia card for that, it only uses the CPU. But, it lacks several features Premiere CS6 has, especially when it comes to artistic effects. Overall I'm really hooked up on Premiere CS6, but only if I can have the same fluidness of work I always had with Edius, so I wouldn't turning off MPE. That's why I spent $280 in a new graphics card.

             

            I really hope that this is just a matter of the BM Intensity being a cheap card and not Premiere, because this past couple of days I've been editing almost all day and while I enjoyed the editing process in Premiere, it's very frustrating to start playback and sometimes it will be fine but other times the audio and video will be out of sync, so I have to position the playhead back and start playing again. When that happens half the times you play something, it's really annoying. This is regardless of real time areas or not. To make sure of this, I forced render of an area that had no effects on it and it still has the sync problem. I had to disable auto playback after rendering because that would cause the problem every time, while if I position the playhead manually and then hit play, sometimes it happens, sometimes it doesn't.

            • 3. Re: Lag with Blackmagic Intensity Pro
              Jon-M-Spear Level 4

              I am having the same issue in CS6 and coincidentally, posted to the BM forum on the Creative Cow site only this morning.

               

              http://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/124/881531

               

              No response as yet.

               

              I'm finding that dropped frames can be initiated by a simple 4-second caption burnt over a single layer of XDCAM EX footage.  When I stop and restart playback, it continues correctly until it hits some fast cuts.

               

              My machine is not underspec'd.

               

              I am also having problems with juddering shuttle when the reference monitor is active and displaying the vectorscope/RGB parade.  Are you experiencing that too?

              • 4. Re: Lag with Blackmagic Intensity Pro
                grandpooba2 Level 1

                I have a question to add to this conversation.

                I have a sony dvmc-da2 media converter hooked up to a panasonic studio monitor that I used to view files on in vegas pro.

                When I hook this up via firewire to our pc and look in premeier pro cs6 for this device to output to it is not there.

                Nor thru nvidia menu. Is this even possible to do anymore or is this abit outdated.

                I also have an intensity pro that doesn't seem to like to play nice with the nvidia card.

                Any thoughts and also where do find external choices in PPcs6.

                Thanx

                • 5. Re: Lag with Blackmagic Intensity Pro
                  Zac Lam Adobe Employee

                  Hi Jon-M-Spear, for your dropped frame issue, have you tried comparing between Mercury Hardware and Mercury Software modes?

                  • 6. Re: Lag with Blackmagic Intensity Pro
                    Jon-M-Spear Level 4

                    I'm not at my PC now, but I seem to recall that it makes no difference.

                    • 7. Re: Lag with Blackmagic Intensity Pro
                      rexpost Level 1

                      I'm getting a lag as well on playback with a Decklink Studio.

                       

                      hit play. it's a few frames off.

                       

                      stop

                       

                      hit play again...its in synch.

                       

                      had this issue with cs 5 as well if i recall, even on rendered sequences.

                      • 8. Re: Lag with Blackmagic Intensity Pro
                        nullsebasvideo Level 1

                        rexpost wrote:

                         

                        I'm getting a lag as well on playback with a Decklink Studio.

                         

                        hit play. it's a few frames off.

                         

                        stop

                         

                        hit play again...its in synch.

                         

                        It looks like Blackmagic is a brand to avoid completely. I just got a Matrox MXO2 Mini Max, no lag issues, no crashes, and it encodes to h.264 in real time with good picture quality. They are running a promo until July I think, I got mine from B&H for $600. Totally worth the money.

                        • 9. Re: Lag with Blackmagic Intensity Pro
                          DrewD_1111

                          Same thing is happening to me with the Intensity Extreme Thunderbolt...

                          • 10. Re: Lag with Blackmagic Intensity Pro
                            SAFEHARBOR11 Most Valuable Participant

                            Check out this Adobe demo video and you will see a slight lag between the Premiere preview and external display - http://youtu.be/G4X5ZDzos1I

                             

                            I think it is inevitable, as Adobe has to hand off the video data to the third-party card, which is going to have some processing going on internally that could introduce a tiny bit of lag, but also consider that the video DISPLAY may introduce some lag with its own internal processing of the incoming HDMI signal. I can have multiple TVs turned on in my house and all set to the same football game, yet I hear echoes from one room the other because there are timing offsets!

                             

                            I've used Matrox products for years, currently MXO2 Mini, and yes there is a small lag, but I don't look at both screens at once, am looking at one or the other at any given moment. I can understand that the lag may be a critical issue for cutting a music video, but probably not an issue for most users. I never notice it myself really unless specifically looking for it.

                             

                            Jeff Pulera

                            Safe Harbor Computers

                            • 11. Re: Lag with Blackmagic Intensity Pro
                              rexpost Level 1

                              well, its happening on all the aja cards too, so it's not just a black magic problem.

                               

                              There's no good excuse why there would be any lag.

                               

                              there should be absolutely none at all. 

                              There's no lag with final cut pro on that same hardware.

                               

                              The Mercury Transmit needs some refinement.

                              • 12. Re: Lag with Blackmagic Intensity Pro
                                Qengineering Level 3

                                Final Cut allowed adjustment under System Settings > Playback Control to adjust any delay/offset.

                                 

                                I believe Final cut would delay the desktop display if the 3rd party card was behind and it would delay the feed to the 3rd party card if the desktop was behind. I was always able to get them in sync.

                                 

                                All done within the FCP application.

                                • 13. Re: Lag with Blackmagic Intensity Pro
                                  ReubenFink Level 1

                                  This thread is almost a year old so hope somebody is listening. I'm having these same lag issues between Premiere Pro and my intensity card. I'm working in CC and had a client in the suite today they kept asking why my footage was out of sync. Pretty embarrassing.  I lost track of how many times I had to hit the space bar to correct the drift in audio. I come from an Avid and FCP workflow and I never had a problem using the BM Intesity card with those edit suites.  Murcury Playback is on and I'm running a gtx 570. When I go frame by frame it's fine but in playback I've had it go form half a second lag to a full second. After a while I just shut the plasma display off. Has anyone come up with a fix for this?

                                  • 14. Re: Lag with Blackmagic Intensity Pro
                                    shooternz Level 6

                                    Synch....Audio or video lag?

                                     

                                    THere are Delay Controls in the Display Preferences which I have had no need to use.

                                     

                                    Video display  match across all my monitors and therefore the audio is also in synch

                                    • 15. Re: Lag with Blackmagic Intensity Pro
                                      ReubenFink Level 1

                                      It's my Audio that's out of synch. It's about half a second late and sometimes worse. When it gets really bad I have to hit spacebar to stop playback then I restart but then it reverts back to a slight delay though somewhat better. I've tried adjusting the delay controls but it has not remedied the problem.

                                      • 16. Re: Lag with Blackmagic Intensity Pro
                                        shooternz Level 6

                                        So you are saying audio is out of synch on the BM Monitor and I assume its correct on the Desktop Monitors.?

                                         

                                        Which Audio is set in Audio Preferences?  Where is it Mapped to?

                                         

                                        FYI. 

                                         

                                        Mine is Premiere Pro WDM Sound .  Mapped to Adobe Desktop Audio.  (ie no sound card involved)

                                        The audio is out put to an external amplifier and speaker system.

                                         

                                        All monitors run video in synch with each other  and audio is in synch no matter which monitor is viewed.

                                         

                                        No drift over time.

                                        • 17. Re: Lag with Blackmagic Intensity Pro
                                          ReubenFink Level 1

                                          Everything is in synch on my two desktop monitors until I select Blackmagic as my video device output to the plasma then there's a delay on all monitors. So I double checked settings as you mentioned and the only way I can get rid of the synch problem is to change the audio device playback settings to run through the Blackmagic Intensity card. It is a fix for now but if I prefer to have my actual audio card to process the sound since I think it's a bit cleaner then the BM. So I pretty much have to let the BM card handle both audio and sound at the same time for there not to be an issue.

                                           

                                          I'll take it.

                                          • 18. Re: Lag with Blackmagic Intensity Pro
                                            shooternz Level 6

                                            Just a question?

                                             

                                            Why did you need BM card for a Plasma screen?  Is it SDI ?

                                            • 19. Re: Lag with Blackmagic Intensity Pro
                                              ReubenFink Level 1

                                              The plasma is for the client to view. It's HDMI but I'm already using two displays and I'm on a Mac Pro and that's a Mac Limit even though I have HDMI ports on the gtx570 they are disabled once both DVI's are put to use.

                                              • 20. Re: Lag with Blackmagic Intensity Pro
                                                Richard M Knight Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                My picture delay going to my Plasma via decklink studio 2 using HDMI is 38ms and going via SD SDI to my Sony CRT is 51ms (extra delay is caused by the down conversion) I can adjust the delay in my audio monitoring to make the lip sync correct.

                                                • 21. Re: Lag with Blackmagic Intensity Pro
                                                  Philipp M Level 1

                                                  Hey Richard,

                                                   

                                                  where do you set these delay settings? Using Premiere CC here and adjusting the offset in settings -> playback -> video devices doesn't make any difference for me. No matter if have the offset set to 0 or 500ms the delay is always the same.

                                                   

                                                  Using the most recent (7.2.2) version on OSX 10.9.2.

                                                   

                                                  Thanks,

                                                   

                                                  philipp

                                                  • 22. Re: Lag with Blackmagic Intensity Pro
                                                    Richard M Knight Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                    I add the delay in my hardware sound interface, not in Premiere. I have never tried using the Premiere delays.

                                                    • 23. Re: Lag with Blackmagic Intensity Pro
                                                      Philipp M Level 1

                                                      Thanks Richard. Would you mind walking me through how you do this? Sounds like an interesting workaround for the time being.

                                                       

                                                      Thanks!

                                                       

                                                      Philipp

                                                      • 24. Re: Lag with Blackmagic Intensity Pro
                                                        nullsebasvideo Level 1

                                                        I was surprised to see new replies to my two year old post. The only thing I would like to add is that the out of sync audio problem was because of the Blackmagic Intensity. I'm sure because sometime after this post I returned the card and bought a Matrox MXO2 Mini Max, and it doesn't have this problem at all. I wouldn't recommend it, though, because after a year or so it started crashing when I encoded a video that is longer than twenty something minutes (can't remember exactly, but it crashes Premiere CS6 always at the same point), and even if I successfully encoded a shorter video, after a few minutes it crashes whatever program used it, either Premiere or Media Encoder. However, the timeline is always in sync no matter how many times you play or scrub.

                                                         

                                                        I know Blackmagic has some great products, but it seems to me that the Intensity is a much older and low quality product that they should discontinue.

                                                        • 25. Re: Lag with Blackmagic Intensity Pro
                                                          Richard M Knight Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                          DMA8.PNG

                                                           

                                                          Sorry for the delay in replying.

                                                          I use a Dolby DMA8 decoder and it has settings for a global delay (for all speakers) and additional settings for centre and surround channels. Most domestic AV amps have similar settings.

                                                          • 26. Re: Lag with Blackmagic Intensity Pro
                                                            filmmakersue

                                                            i have the same issue using a MAtrox MX02 mini and Premiere CC 2014.  there is a lag in the audio on the desktop and no matter what i do to change the settings, it makes no difference. the only way the timeline and the program monitor are perfectly in sync (and the timeline indicator stops exactly where it is supposed to instead of a few frames after) is when the Matrox is unchecked for playback. it is so annoying as i can't use my external monitor at all. Never had this issues with FCP.  Yes, the external monitor was off but i didn't care. The main timeline and program were always in sync. Adobe told me it is not their problem.

                                                            • 27. Re: Lag with Blackmagic Intensity Pro
                                                              petergaraway Adobe Employee

                                                              Hi Filmmakersue,

                                                               

                                                              I wanted to see if you could provide more detail about what your problem is. You said you audio lag. Can you tell me what that means exactly and what your hardware setup is? i.e. Audio in external speakers plays ahead of external video etc...

                                                               

                                                              Thanks for the help,

                                                               

                                                              Peter Garaway

                                                              Adobe

                                                              Premiere Pro