13 Replies Latest reply on Jun 19, 2012 8:18 PM by tbarnesfilms2012

    What is the BEST WAY TO ARCHIVE OLD PROJECTS and related media?

    tbarnesfilms2012

      Hi,

       

       

      I've been running a Wedding Film-making business for the last 12 months full-time. In that time I've acquired about 4TB of Hard Drive space, but as I get more work coming in the door I'm starting to need to get rid of old Weddings and Corporates I've shot.

       

       

      In the past - ie. at my old employers - I've archived the tapes in a storage room, and deleted all the captured footage. Then I'd burn the project file to a DVD or BLU-RAY depending on the job.

       

       

      Now that everything is Digital, is there a good way to archive the footage without buying a million TB's of Hard Drive space (then considering keeping multiple copies for safety)???

       

       

      I'm not concerned about needing to return to make changes to the projects at a later stage - these Weddings are locked and will never be changed.

       

       

      Any help, suggestions, or an example of what you do would be greatly appreciated!

       

       

      Thanks,

      Thomas

        • 1. Re: What is the BEST WAY TO ARCHIVE OLD PROJECTS and related media?
          ExactImage Level 3

          We backup / archive weddings to LTO4 tapes.   HDDs are totally unsuitable for archiving and Optical Media does not have a high enough capacity (or reliability) - even 50GB Blu-ray - for archiving.   Our typical wedding archive is between 200GB and 700GB depending on whether we are having to transcode the AVCHD (CS6 bug!). 

          • 2. Re: What is the BEST WAY TO ARCHIVE OLD PROJECTS and related media?
            Jim Curtis Level 3

            +1 to LTO and the above post.  It's really the only viable option for large backup/archives.  I was hoping that HVD would be around by now, but it's been mostly MIA in the marketplace.

             

            LTO5 is out now, and has the advantage of LTFS.  But, I have no experience with that.  I use LTO4 also, and it's working reliably.

             

            I suggest you buy a bundle from a VAR.  Learing about LTO can be a confusing and time-consuming endeavor.  It was for me.  Expect to pay over two or three thousand dollars to get you started.

            • 3. Re: What is the BEST WAY TO ARCHIVE OLD PROJECTS and related media?
              josephs51576386 Level 3

              If I'm understanding correctly are you saying that you've used up 4TB worth of HDD space over the last year? Or are you saying you've purchased that much space? The reason I'm asking is because if you think you'll only need to store around 5TB of stuff a year, it might just be cheaper for you to buy a 220NAS that is running in RAID 1 so your data is safe. Because at 5TB a year you would only spend around 1,000USD for you storage. (Thats with the NAS devices using raid 1 for data security)

               

              However to buy a LTO tape deck you'd have to spend at least 4-5k just for the deck. It really only makes since to get those if you know you are going to be using tons of storage say around over 15-25TB a year. The other thing to keep in mind is that HDD storage cost has dropped tons over the last 3 years. But like I said it all comes down to how much you are going to need to archive over time. Now if you know you're going to be using large amounts of data then LTO is simply the only way to go. But if you think you'll be using around 5TB a year it may be cheaper to just use HDD's for now, until your business picks up more.

              • 4. Re: What is the BEST WAY TO ARCHIVE OLD PROJECTS and related media?
                ExactImage Level 3

                LTO4 drives are around £1200 (not sure in US$).  Add a SAS card for another couple of hundred plus some software.  Done.

                 

                Tapes are currently still a little cheaper than HDDs on a GB / GB basis but are much more reliable.

                 

                A RAID (take your pick, 5, 10, 50 , 60 etc) is still only as reliable as the base HDDs you are using, and HDDs are backup devices, not archive devices.  We just trashed > 60 HDDs that have been sat on the shelf for 4-6 years because not one of them worked any more.

                 

                It's easy to generate 10TB - 20TB a year from weddings alone.  Weddings tend to generate 6-10 hours of footage each, somre being more, some being less.  I suppose it depends on how many cameras you are using .

                 

                If you need to archive the source footage then you need something more reliable than HDDs.  If all you need is the end product (e.g. ISO files and graphics for the case / label) then perhaps you can consider the 100 year archive Blu-ray media.  Of course, it's only going to last 100 years if you store it correctly!

                • 5. Re: What is the BEST WAY TO ARCHIVE OLD PROJECTS and related media?
                  Jason Britski Level 1

                  We just bought a LTO-4 deck at work.

                  Bought an HP deck used + a SAS card & cable, 20 cartridges, and the BRU software.

                  Total cost was $3,500 to backup approx 17 TBs of HD Pro Res (HQ) video.

                   

                  If we had went the hard drive route it would have cost us just as much, and more down the road.

                  Now all we need to buy in the future for BUs are more cartridges @ $44 each, which will hold 800 GB of video & 1.6TB of data.

                   

                  The other option to offset the cost is to offer the backup service in your community to others for a fee, or as part of your overall pkg if you run a post facilty.

                  • 6. Re: What is the BEST WAY TO ARCHIVE OLD PROJECTS and related media?
                    josephs51576386 Level 3

                    Could you guys please let me know where to buy a LTO deck for these prices you mention? Because I'm sure I could talk my boss into buying us a second one if I could get it for around the prices you all are describing. It would sure

                    be nice to have a second one in our facility. The one we bought around a year or so ago cost about 5kUSD.

                    • 7. Re: What is the BEST WAY TO ARCHIVE OLD PROJECTS and related media?
                      Jason Britski Level 1

                      We got lucky & bought the deck locally from another producer, but I have seen lots of similar deals on ebay.

                      Got to ebay & search for LTO decks.

                      Once in awhile you have somebody on ebay selling the deck, the card & cables - saw this a month or two ago for $1,500.

                      • 9. Re: What is the BEST WAY TO ARCHIVE OLD PROJECTS and related media?
                        josephs51576386 Level 3

                        Thanks for taking the time to post those, hopefully my boss will go for it.

                        • 10. Re: What is the BEST WAY TO ARCHIVE OLD PROJECTS and related media?
                          tbarnesfilms2012 Level 1

                          Thanks for all the advice.

                           

                          I'm thinking that for Weddings I'm going to go the 100 year blu-ray option because it's the cheapest way to archive at the moment - and easy to build into the costs for couples.

                           

                          But for all corporate and other work, I'm gonna look further into this LT04/5 option. I'm in Australia and sometimes things cost an unjustifiably large sum of money compared to US or UK prices, if I can afford it soon I'll have to do it.

                           

                          Cheers all

                          • 11. Re: What is the BEST WAY TO ARCHIVE OLD PROJECTS and related media?
                            tbarnesfilms2012 Level 1

                            Yes, you're understanding me correctly - nearly 4TB full. Think you're right, until the business growth justifies it - I'll be sticking to HDD's or Blu-Ray back up.

                             

                            I'm mainly concerned with being able to delete the nearly 150GB of data per wedding - since I lock the edit and burn a DVD, then I only really ever need to burn more DVD's if the couple calls and asks. With Adobe Dynamic Link I'm avoiding needing to export a single video file that it then transcoded - so I'm kinda stuck.

                             

                            Do I export a single file from Adobe Premiere Pro, and then delete all the 150GB of data - keeping only the files I need to build my DVD's in the future? Or is there some option in Adobe Encore that allows me to save all the transcoded files for the DVD, and then I can go and delete the 150GB of data?

                             

                            Feels like I'm missing something pretty basic, either that or I've thought of an option Adobe could add to Encore - it'd be useful for Wedding Filmmakers at least.

                             

                            Cheers

                            • 12. Re: What is the BEST WAY TO ARCHIVE OLD PROJECTS and related media?
                              josephs51576386 Level 3

                              Well that depends, if you only keep the exported copy and not the raw footage then if someone request some sort of edit change you'd be screwed if you didn't keep all the raw footage and simply kept the exported copy. However if you know that they aren't going to request some sort of change or you let them know up front they won't be able to make anymore changes after a certian point.(For exampel after you give the finished product and it's been approved by them) you can save TONS of space by simply only archiving the exported copy for them incase they need to make them another copy for some reason.

                               

                              Where I work we always backup EVERYTHING, because we have had clients call back and request raw footage (meaning un-edited footage) almost 2 years after they filmed before. So if  this happens to you will probably be happy you didn't keep only a exported edited copy and that you held on to all your source media. So really unless you're just 100 percent positive that this won't ever happen or it just hasn't happened to you as of yet then you can just export the project from premiere and keep only that.

                               

                              Blu-rays are a good backup option overall and like you mentioned for the amount of space you're currently using it won't be very expensive to just use hard disk. Just remember that you'll need to hook the HD's up at least 1 time per month. The reason is that it's good for them to spin every once in awhile. However in all honesty if you go with a RAID 1 setup or just simply buy two disk you won't run into to many occaisions where both disk fail at once... It hasn't ever happned to me at my job or in my personal business.

                               

                              One option though that in some ways would give you the best of both worlds would be to use the project mananger feature in Premiere to save everything that is in your timeline to a project folder. (It basically saves all your footage that's in your time-line. It excludes un-used things from the bin unelss you say different) Anyways it will save you space in the end while still saving the entire project to a single folder of your chosing. Then you could export your finished program from Premiere and then burn your disc from the finished file you got and only backup your finished file to say a blu-ray disc and then backup your finished file and your saved project to your hard disc you have to archive stuff on. What used to be 150GB would now probably only be like 25-40GB max. But like I said if someone requested a major change and not something minor you'd be out in the cold... I don't use encore much though so someone else would have to answer your question about backing up a encore project... But I'd assume if you had the backed up premiere exported digital file you could just import it into encore and be ready to roll so you wouldn't really need to backup the encore project unless you make a crazy cool customized menu or something. Then if someone needed only a minor change such as graphics or something you could use your backed up project folder from premiere to make the change and then send it to encore to re-export the product with the requested minor changes.

                               

                              It all really comes down to what you want to do. I'd recommend at the very least you backup your premiere project the way I described and also save the exported copy of your final project.

                              • 13. Re: What is the BEST WAY TO ARCHIVE OLD PROJECTS and related media?
                                tbarnesfilms2012 Level 1

                                Many thanks for that - I'm going to go learn about using Project Manager now. Blu-ray 50GB discs is going to be the best option, but you're right - as I move forward, I'll want to save everything. Especially for corporate clients.

                                 

                                Cheers,

                                T