11 Replies Latest reply on Feb 18, 2013 9:11 AM by lasvideo

    Pulled Plug on Feature Edit: Back To Avid

    conleec Level 1

      I just had to make the heartbreaking decision after a week of work on a SyFy feature to pull the plug and go back to Avid. I desperately wanted to cut this film natively with no transcoding, and the PP CS6 workflow sounded truly exciting. Unfortunately, the reality is that PP isn't quite ready for prime time. Here's my main issues:

       

      1. Matchback is broken with Red Epic clips
      2. No way to find audio timecode from merged clips for manually matching back shots
      3. No way to automatically sort thumbnails in the bin
      4. Timeline redraw issues when using merged clips
      5. No audio rubber banding when using merged clips
      6. No asynchronous trims (yet?)
      7. My attempts at making an AAF from merged clips have failed
      8. I simply don't have faith, after using it for a week, that I'll be able to make deliverables on this feature when the time comes.

       

      Don't get me wrong, editing with PP CS6 is pretty neat. I was able to replicate many of my Avid key commands and it's FAST and FLUID! But the rough edges give me serious pause. I spent several sleepless nights wondering if I was making the right decision, sticking with PP.

       

      In the future, I will definitely revisit it. In fact, I'll be using an AAF export from Avid to PP for doing my DPX pulls when it comes to delivering my VFX plates.

       

      To Adobe, I'd recommend that you actually enlist the services of some top end Hollywood assistant editors, if you truly want to get into this field. The editors will fall in love with much of what you've done, but it's the assistants who can tell you what you haven't done that will get folks in trouble with deliverables and whatnot.

       

      For what it's worth, I came to PP because Avid wasn't cutting it with their native Red workflow either. After two days of cutting, Avid starting choking on the Epic footage and I realized that simply wasn't going to work. So I came here seeking nirvana, LOL. In the end, I'm gonna bite the bullet and do what I've always done: transcode all my dailies and cut in Avid, where I know it'll get done the way it needs to get done.

       

      I'll keep checking in, because I believe there is the potential for true greatness here. Just not quite yet.

       

      Chris Conlee

      Feature Editor

       

      Mac Pro (4,1)

      OS X 10.7.4

      24Gb RAM

      nVidia GTX 285 (CUDA 4.2.10)

      Dual Monitors

      Matrox Mini Max

      PP 6.0.1

        • 1. Re: Pulled Plug on Feature Edit: Back To Avid
          Kevin-Monahan Adobe Employee

          Sorry you are having so much trouble. I just sent the Premiere Pro team a link to this thread. I hope your issues get addressed ASAP.

           

          On a positive note, we do have asymetircal trimming. Here's the page in Help: http://helpx.adobe.com/content/help/en/premiere-pro/using/trimming-clips1.html

          The topic is about half way down.

          • 2. Re: Pulled Plug on Feature Edit: Back To Avid
            Constant Production

            I will add to this thread and saying that my experience is the same. The more I use Premiere Pro, the more I like it over Avid...

             

            ...BUT

             

            It's useless for critical feature film work. The whole point of editing in a feature film enviroment is collaboration, robust and reliable workflows and the ability to really go in and out of an edit, testing and re-doing, being creative without it never failing on the "export" or collaboration part.

             

            I have never been able to get a good workflow for collaboration with premiere pro, it truly sucks at this. Exporting a demo of a cut takes forever, I mean, literally forever. When editing a feature film we need to be able to do exports within an hour of a two hour edit. Right now I have a 30 second clip that takes 15 minutes to export

             

            And syncing audio and video is almost the case in 100% of all feature film productions, so how is it that syncing with merged clips in Premiere Pro makes it useless for AAF exports? The whole point is that whatever you do in the NLE shouldn't effect the ability to export metadata for other parties.

             

            Please Adobe, stop thinking that editing is a one man's game, it never is.

            • 3. Re: Pulled Plug on Feature Edit: Back To Avid
              Jim_Simon Level 8

              This is a good next step towards a more collaborative work flow, I think.

               

              http://tv.adobe.com/watch/adobe-anywhere/introducing-adobe-anywhere-for-video/

              • 4. Re: Pulled Plug on Feature Edit: Back To Avid
                Constant Production Level 1

                In some ways, but for feature films, no. Look at post production houses, look at how real post production is done. Why do you think Avid is still in the game? Because it's robust, because it's reliable. The only reason I use Avid now instead of Premiere Pro is because Avid delivers reliability. I know that there isn't going to be any problems with my edit when working for two months on a project, I know that everything will work when the edit is locked.

                 

                Collaborating is easy to fix, make AAF work whatever you do, merged clips etc. Have a real EDL manager for output, not just CMX3600 as an option.

                Metadata should not disappear anywhere. If I nest a sequence I can't get it to work with EDL's or XML's etc.

                 

                There are tons of useful features in Premiere Pro that I cannot use because it screws up the export/collaboration side of editing.

                • 5. Re: Pulled Plug on Feature Edit: Back To Avid
                  Jim_Simon Level 8

                  Give it time.  Avid has been the de facto Hollywood NLE for a loooong time.  Adobe is just recently stepping up it's game to that level, and those features won't appear overnight.

                   

                  You can help by continually submitting the necessary feature requests to make PP more compatible to those kinds of work flows.  The more people that want and request those features, the faster they'll show up.

                   


                  https://www.adobe.com/cfusion/mmform/index.cfm?name=wishform

                  • 6. Re: Pulled Plug on Feature Edit: Back To Avid
                    Constant Production Level 1

                    But those features are the most basic needs for any editor. If Adobe made Premiere Pro reliable, robust and foolproof in it's workflow (non-destructive to material or metadata workflow) then there would be no need for Avid. As of now, Avid sucks when it comes to editing, it has such a sluggish performance and clumsy timeline editing, but it's always working as it should, I know how the entire workflow will be before I even start.

                     

                    I don't want to see an update for Premiere Pro where features like warp stabilizer and such are included before these essentials are put in there.

                    It makes no sense to add hundreds of features and not focus on the basics for editing. The primary thing right now is I think export times...    doesn't matter if it's fast to edit directly from R3D-files and such when the export of a regular small file to mail the clients for approval is so long you might miss a lot of good working hours.

                    • 7. Re: Pulled Plug on Feature Edit: Back To Avid
                      the_wine_snob Level 9

                      Many users feel, just as you do. They want all Bugs to be fixed, and necessary functions added. Then, and only then, they want new "bells," or "whistles." However, with any corporation, Marketing has a "seat at the table," so everything might not progress in a linear fashion. Also, what might be a "bell" to you, might be a "whistle" to me. Still, robust, fully useable, and rock-steady would be the top of my wish list.

                       

                      Good luck, and sorry that things are not quite working out for you.

                       

                      Hunt

                      • 8. Re: Pulled Plug on Feature Edit: Back To Avid
                        Jim_Simon Level 8
                        But those features are the most basic needs for any editor.

                         

                        Well...apparently not, since Premiere has been around for a loooooong time, albeit not at the Hollywood level.  Were it unusable for all editors, it would not have lasted.

                        • 9. Re: Pulled Plug on Feature Edit: Back To Avid
                          Jim_Simon Level 8

                          If Adobe made Premiere Pro reliable, robust and foolproof in it's workflow

                           

                          For me and a lot of others, it is that, and has been for quite a while.  The features I was referring to are the multi-user, networking, production chain capabilities.

                          • 10. Re: Pulled Plug on Feature Edit: Back To Avid
                            Jim_Simon Level 8

                            The primary thing right now is I think export times.

                             

                            That's more of a hardware issue.

                            • 11. Re: Pulled Plug on Feature Edit: Back To Avid
                              lasvideo Level 4

                              I sent a tweet to the Premiere Pro Adobe Project Mananger to let him know of your issues. He is a very cool person who genuinely wants PrP to do what editors need it to do. The link is to this thread so he can understand the exact things you mentioned that caused you to switch from PrP to Avid for the feature project.

                               

                              Just thought you might want to know.