22 Replies Latest reply on Feb 19, 2013 2:05 PM by dzsokolino

    Dynamic linking multiple AE projects

    Sway Heavy

      I am working on premiere pro cs5.5 on a 2011 iMac i7 quad core 16gb RAM. Basically I worked on a project with another person who accidentally made a new after effects project and used dynamic link to link about 50% of the project to the wrong AE project. Since AE can only run 1 session at once I was constantly closing and opening sessions durring editing and now that I'm trying to export I'm getting slow export speeds and error messages as well as crashing. So my questions are:

       

      1. Can I export my video from premiere without having both AE projects open?

       

      2. If not, what is the best work around? I thought about exporting pieces but that won't work because in some instances the clips overlap.

       

      Any help would be appreciated.

        • 1. Re: Dynamic linking multiple AE projects
          Fuzzy Barsik Level 4

          1. Can I export my video from premiere without having both AE projects open?

          Yes.

          What is more, you don't need to open AE at all while working on PrPro project containing dynamically linked compositions, unless you want to edit them.

           

          And, yes, storing dynamically linked compositions in different AE project is not 'wrong' workflow.

          If necessary, you may even have dynamically linked AE CS5 and AE CS5.5 comps in one PrPro CS5.5 project.

          2. ...what is the best work around?

          It depends on a workaround for what you're looking for...

          If your main concern is render time for 'heavy' AE comps, render lossless intermediate out of AE instead of using Dynamic Links.

          See this thread. Pay attention to Todd's comments.

          • 2. Re: Dynamic linking multiple AE projects
            Sway Heavy Level 1

            Thanks for your help Fuzzy, I was able to learn a few things from that thread but I'm still having a bit of trouble.  What I gathered from the thread is that I can Render out seperate instances of each of my linked comps and then replace them in the timeline in premiere. The way I tried doing this was to open the composition in aftere effects then go Composition>Pre Render, then Render the composition out as an MPEG2 to a folder I created on my drive.  I then went into premiere and dropped the rendered file into a bin in the project, found the clip in the time line and then right clicked and selected the Replace with Clip> From Bin option to replace the linked comp with the rendered file.

             

            The new problem is that I have instances in my project where I made cuts and edits to linked compositions and when I replace the clip it assumes that the clip should start from the beginning.  Is there a way around having to go through the entire project and make all of the edits again? because that would be ridiculous...

             

             

             

            another thing I didnt understand about that other thread was the whole saving a RAM PREVIEW thing.  how can I use that to make this work because I rendered the whole project in premiere and it plays through flawlessly but when I export it just tells me its going to take 2 hours and then freezes at like 12% (or rather I assume that its frozen because it won't change for several hours). I'm new to this software so excuse me if I sound like I don't know whats going on because I really don't.

            • 3. Re: Dynamic linking multiple AE projects
              Sway Heavy Level 1

              ok so I rendered out all my comp's and I just discovered that If I open the Clip into the source monitor I can set the in point at the frame that I want and then right click the clip in the timeline and replace it with the clip from the source monitor matching the frame. I'm giong to try that. may take a bit longer than I expected but it seems promising, i'll post the results.

              • 4. Re: Dynamic linking multiple AE projects
                Fuzzy Barsik Level 4

                Well, normally the first issue shouldn't happen since the duration of a dynamically linked comp matches the duration of its lossless intermediate. I noticed similar 'magic shifting' a couple of times with Warp Stabilizer. But that was while replacing a clip with dynamically linked composition, not with a rendered DI (I could probably explain the 'magic' with a linked item, but such things in regard to totally independent footage are far beyond of my understanding...). So, if you are really facing this with rendered DIs, poor dog you are... I don't know the cure apart from using Slip Tool or searching for appropriate frame in the Source Monitor and then choosing Replace With Clip -> From Source Mionitor, Match Frame or, as you mentioned, setting the In point..

                 

                Talking about using saved RAM Preview, it is not connected to your second issue.

                You may use saved RAM preview for rendering digital intermediate out of AE. But, as far as I understand, you want to use rendered preview of your PrPro project while rendering final output (not a good idea, but if you really want to do that, tick Use Preview in export settings...).

                 

                For me things similar to what you describe with rendering time may happen when you use complex AE compositions as dynamically linked ones. This time PrPro struggles with limits of the headless AE instance. However, when you replace dynamically linked comps with DIs, there is no need to launch (and struggle with the limits of) headless AE...

                • 5. Re: Dynamic linking multiple AE projects
                  Sway Heavy Level 1

                  Thanks for all of your help so far Fuzzy, It has been very helpfull and much appreciated but I'm still having some issues. 

                   

                  Ok so I went through and re-edited everything but I'm still getting extremely slow export speed and freezing. I read somewhere that If I clean the media cache out that it helps but I tried that and its still going extremely slow and there is no way to tell if its going to freeze or not so I"m kind of rendering on faith.

                   

                  basically what happens is when I export everything starts up fine but then it will get to about 5% and the ETR will jump up from 2 minutes to over 2 hours and it will periodically just stop updating and then start up again so there is no way to tell if its hanging.  for example, it has been sitting at 8% with 01:51:58 remaining for the last 20 minutes but then out of the blue the time and % complete will change. so unless I just sit in front of my computer and watch theres no way to know if its doing what its supposed to or not. and even If I sit there and watch it how do I know its not going to start back up again randomly 3 hours from now? I started an export at 6am this morning everything was going smoothly and it was at about 50% by 8am then out of nowhere it gets to 54% and then everything stops, I waited untill noon and still nothing had changed so I just force quit.  this can't be normal right? aren't the ETR and % complete suposed to update in realtime?  my first thought is that I just have too much processing going on and my computer can't handle it (I do have a lot of denoise and color correction plug-in's working) but when I check my activity monitor it says that PR is only using 2.5 gigs of my 16GB of ram.  What's the problem here?

                  • 6. Re: Dynamic linking multiple AE projects
                    Fuzzy Barsik Level 4

                    No, estimated time really means estimated time. It's not an obligation and it does not necessarily update in real time.

                     

                    However, since you replaced all your dynamically linked compositions with digital intermediates, headless AE is no longer a bottleneck, and it's time to check something else.

                     

                    First of all have a look at your exporting settings.

                    Then check if your system is optimised for PrPro and AE. From here you may need to restate your issue in a new thread so that e.g. Harm or some other worthies will be able to help...

                    • 7. Re: Dynamic linking multiple AE projects
                      dzsokolino Level 1

                      "And, yes, storing dynamically linked compositions in different AE project is not 'wrong' workflow.

                      If necessary, you may even have dynamically linked AE CS5 and AE CS5.5 comps in one PrPro CS5.5 project."

                       

                      How? I am looking for this answer. I have a huge multicam project (4 cams) and need to send at least 300 short clips to AE for stabilizing in CS 5.5. I am using only 1 AE project and when I hit "replace AE composition" in Premiere it takes around 5 minutes to show up in AE as AE is saving really slow (also at this time Premire is freezing for another 5 minutes). My AE project size is around 250 MB already and I am at the half of the work. I would like to make more AE projects and it then will speed up replacing the clip. How can I do that? I did it once, but it always messed up my files.

                       

                      AE still works really well/fast but saving (whic is unfortnately automatic and cannot be turned off) is terrible slow.

                       

                      Preferably I would start a new AE dynamic link project for each multicam sequence. I have around 6-8 sequences (all multicam). When I am done with each segment I would nest them into one full sequence.

                      • 8. Re: Dynamic linking multiple AE projects
                        Fuzzy Barsik Level 4

                        Not sure I properly understand, an answer for what exactly you're looking for...

                         

                        If you are wondering how to avoid mess with several dynamically linked AE projects in CS5.5, then the solution is the following: avoid incremental numbers at the end of AE projects' names. Better yet, at the end of dynamically linked comps' names within both AE and PrPro as well. Give them meaning names. If you need those incremental numbers (e.g. for sorting purposes), use them somewhere in the middle of the names.

                         

                        If you renamed existing AE projects, but still facing the mess, manually clean Media Cache Database - i.e. manually delete all files in both Media Cache and Media Cache Files folders and let PrPro rebuild them.

                         

                        By the way, why do you choose to stabilise all the footages instead of just those cuts from your resulting master sequence, which need stabilising?

                        • 9. Re: Dynamic linking multiple AE projects
                          dzsokolino Level 1

                          Thanks. I do not need those incremental numbers at all in the file name. I mean for sure it is just easy to have a number, but I can name them if it creates problems.

                           

                          I have not created a mess yet (jsut emember it always happened previously), so I need a step by step process how to open (send clips to) a second AE project (not a composition in the same AE project). Where should I name them? How should I link them? How will PrPro know which one is which (A lot of people mentioned on other sites that PrPro can only work with one AE project at a time).

                           

                          Then how can I make sure the first AE project still will be linked? I will need around 6-8 AE projects, maybe more. Currently I have one huge AE project and it has 150 stabilized (warp stabilizer) footage. You can imagine how long it takes to send another one to it.

                           

                          I hope it is clearer now what I am looking for. Also I would like to be able to open them from the PrPro timeline for further tweaking. (But I can give up on this since I can just send another one to AE in this case).

                           

                           

                          By the way, why do you choose to stabilise all the footages instead of just those cuts from your resulting master sequence, which need stabilising?

                           

                          That is a really good question. I just like to stabilize it before the final colour grading (I might be wrong). I also need the option to go back and move editing point between the camera angles. Also as we know warp stabilizer cannot fix everything, so I might need to change my mind and either use the unstabilized footage or I can jsut pick another cam to cover that bas spot. I am not sure if this answered your question. Also I jsut realized that when I said short clips I wanted to say short cuts

                          • 10. Re: Dynamic linking multiple AE projects
                            Fuzzy Barsik Level 4
                            A lot of people mentioned on other sites that PrPro can only work with one AE project at a time.

                            That's generally called 'ignorance'. PrPro CAN work with as many AE projects as you want. When CS5.5 introduced the aforementioned issue with Dynamic Link, storing all dynamically linked comps in a single AE project was the first workaround found. That's all.

                            How will PrPro know which one is which... Then how can I make sure the first AE project still will be linked?

                            The Suite creates auxiliary files and indexes within Media Cache and Media Cache Files folders for every asset imported into a project, which serve for identifying those assets as well.

                            so I need a step by step process how to open (send clips to) a second AE project (not a composition in the same AE project). Where should I name them? How should I link them?

                            If you start from AE, just name an AE project(s) and all comps inside accordingly (i.e. without incremental numbers at the end of the names). Then import comps you need into PrPro project via File -> Adobe Dynamic Link -> Import After Effects Composition...

                             

                            If you start from PrPro, select a clip (or a group of clips) in the timeline, right-click and choose Replace With After Effects Composition. Give the AE project appropriate name, rename newly created dynamically linked comp in AE and corresponding asset in PrPro. When you're done, just close the AE project, and next time you replace something in PrPro timeline with AE comp, AE will create a new project for you.

                             

                            Bear in mind that in general case you may need to take care of handles. See e.g. this thread for a workaround.

                            That is a really good question. I just like to stabilize it before the final colour grading...

                            If I properly understand your suggested workflow (maybe I'm not), in which you'd want to create your multicam sequence out of pre-stabilised via Dynamic Link camera angles, it has several flaws:

                            - waste of time, 'cos you definitely stabilise all those pieces, which will never be included into your resulting movie;

                            - bigger compromise on quality loss: the longer the clip you're stabilising, the more scale you have to sacrifice;

                            - either waste of disk space (if you render digital intermediates out of AE for all those camera angles) or inability to get realtime playback in PrPro, 'cos it's impossible to render the preview for separate camera angles inside master sequence in multicam workflow (once again, I can simply misunderstand you...)

                             

                            If it were me, I'd just stabilise pieces I need, when I'm done with cutting multicam. And not with Warp Stabilizer, but rather with Mocha...

                            • 11. Re: Dynamic linking multiple AE projects
                              Jim Curtis Level 3

                              Sway Heavy wrote:

                               

                              Since AE can only run 1 session at once

                               

                              This is true, but something people forget (or didn't know in the first place) is that you can have multiple copies of Ae (or most other apps) running at one time, simply by duplicating the app in the Finder, and launching the second instance.  This is for OSX, obviously.

                               

                              I don't know if this would wreak havoc with Dynamic Link, but it might be fun to experiment.

                              • 12. Re: Dynamic linking multiple AE projects
                                dzsokolino Level 1

                                This Mocha thing is really good but for me it looks like requires mote time. For sure for a big film I would use it as it can do a really good job. (btw, did Adobe not kill Mocha since CS6?)

                                 

                                Storage place is not a big issue. When I am donewith the project, I will remove all the 300GB stuff anyway.

                                 

                                I also need an option to modify them just a little (sometimes it is 1-2 frames only). The other thing is, that I cannot give the client an unstabilized material (and they do want to see it before color correcting) and stabilizing just for them the master for me is not the best option.

                                 

                                I do not render timline just at the end when I am having a break. CS5.5 does not support my video card for Mercury acceleration. So again I check it in AE, if it looks good there (in quaerter resolution) it will look good in Premiere after rendering.

                                 

                                I  realized that for me it is a better workflow, though I totally understand your suggestion.

                                I will try this multi project idea and let you know what happened.

                                 

                                Thanks

                                • 13. Re: Dynamic linking multiple AE projects
                                  dzsokolino Level 1

                                  I also hope that in CS6 (I have not tried it) to apply Warp stabilizer is way easier. As far as I know it is built in PrPo. Any comment on that? I will buy it when 6.5 comes out.

                                  • 14. Re: Dynamic linking multiple AE projects
                                    Fuzzy Barsik Level 4
                                    did Adobe not kill Mocha since CS6?

                                    No. And I don't completely understand from what such an assumption could arise.

                                    I  realized that for me it is a better workflow, though I totally understand your suggestion.

                                    It's up to you. There is no 'one & only' proper workflow.

                                    • 15. Re: Dynamic linking multiple AE projects
                                      dzsokolino Level 1

                                      This is what I have found about Mocha.

                                       

                                      "CS6 does not ship with mocha AE v3.


                                      Adobe After Effects CS6 ships with "mocha AE CS6". This is "NOT" mocha AE v3.


                                      mocha AE CS6 offers the same functionality found in CS5.5 with the added bonus of a send to mocha button to launch mocha from within AE and set proper project setting.


                                      mocha AE v3 is only available from Imagineer Systems or authorized reseller channel. mocha AE v3 contains features not found in the Adobe bundle including:


                                      new 3D camera Solver

                                      new roto tools: Transform tool & Join Layers

                                      new dopesheet keyframe editor

                                      updated layer manager, shortcuts and more


                                      mocha AE v3 also supports Apple Motion, Final Cut Pro v7 and Boris FX. "


                                      mocha AE v3 also supports AE CS4, CS5, CS5.5 & CS6 for those not ready to upgrade.

                                      • 16. Re: Dynamic linking multiple AE projects
                                        dzsokolino Level 1

                                        BTW if I send all the clips (from the same angle) to the same AE project, it also a good solution since it saves the AE project only once. Maybe this is even a better workaround?

                                        On my premiere timeline I always duplicate the cuts which need to be sent to AE in a new track. Then after sending it to AE it creates one long (pink) clip, which is way easier to effect, I do not have to paste attirbutes to each clip anymore. I cannot believe I have not really tried this. I will try to add your suggestions then it will really speed up my workflow. Thanks again. I learned something new.

                                        • 17. Re: Dynamic linking multiple AE projects
                                          dzsokolino Level 1

                                          I sent a future request to the Adobe team. When I receive back the AE project on PrPro timeline it gives me a huge pink clip. It would be nice to see stripes (or some different colour) in this huge pink clip when there is no data. I mean befoere sending it to AE it was little chunks, now I do not really know when the actual active clips starts within the pink file. I hope it makes sense... (it is an extra track on above the mulicam track)

                                          • 18. Re: Dynamic linking multiple AE projects
                                            Fuzzy Barsik Level 4
                                            Adobe After Effects CS6 ships with "mocha AE CS6". This is "NOT" mocha AE v3.

                                            And how did 'AE CS6 ships with 'Mocha AE CS6' turn into 'Adobe killed Mocha'?

                                            It would be nice to see stripes (or some different colour) in this huge pink clip when there is no data... I hope it makes sense...

                                            No, it doesn't. You're talking about special case, while generally dynamically linked AE comp can be however complex asset, consisting of dozens of layers with complex relations between them.

                                            • 19. Re: Dynamic linking multiple AE projects
                                              dzsokolino Level 1

                                              That is why I searched for it, since somebody told me that. I have not used it just once in my life so I did not follow up (my fault) since I belived him. But I am happy that it is still in CS6 then.

                                               

                                              I do not see my request too special. I just want to see that the one long pink clip to know where it has some linked clips underneat. AE does it (well in differnet tracks) but really easy to see where the active fotage is under the long pink clip (in AE it has some other colour). If it is too complex, then OK, I am fine but it would be a nice feature for sure.

                                              The other idea is for me to cut it then delete the inner parts, but again it takes alot of time and again I would end up with different chunks where I need to effect them each (I know can hold shift for sure to select all). This is all about the look, noting else.

                                              • 20. Re: Dynamic linking multiple AE projects
                                                Fuzzy Barsik Level 4

                                                As I said, you're talking about special case - i.e. about something that takes place under certain circumstances.

                                                But how this single asset should be painted in PrPro, if it consists of e.g. 40 layers, some of which are mattes, solids, cameras, lights etc.? After Effects is a compositing tool, it is intended for such sort of things!

                                                • 21. Re: Dynamic linking multiple AE projects
                                                  dzsokolino Level 1
                                                  Ok, I got it, if it is impossible then as I said I am fine with it. But I guess you see my point why it would be a good thing. I am not an engineer just a simple user. Thanks for the clear up, just was thinking out of the box.
                                                  • 22. Re: Dynamic linking multiple AE projects
                                                    dzsokolino Level 1

                                                    Thanks again, you saved me at least 4-5 hours. I used both of your suggestions, I sent the cuts to a different AE project and also I sent them together. So I just save once when I close AE. SO far everything works, even the old AE links i created previously.