30 Replies Latest reply: Nov 16, 2012 4:58 AM by johnnf RSS

    Writing metadata to some jpegs fails.

    johnnf Community Member

      I have a problem writing metadata to some of my jpegs and can't figure out why.

      I "save metadata to file" with Command-S on Mac, go away and come back to find the 3 horizontal lines and Down Arrow are back. Saving individually or as a group of pictures, makes no difference, and its always the same photos that Fail.

       

      tired of looking at this...=⬇ (except there are 3 horiz. lines)

       

      any help, anyone?

      John

        • 1. Re: Writing metadata to some jpegs fails.
          Brett N Employee Hosts

          If it is the same files over and over, it's an issue with those files. Could be a permissions issue or a corruption of the file that is preventing the metadata from being saved.

           

          Are all of these files stored in the same folder(s)? If so, is it all of the JPEGs in this location? Might try just moving them to a new folder.

          • 2. Re: Writing metadata to some jpegs fails.
            areohbee Community Member

            I had a similar problem (same symptoms) a while back - fixed it using exiftool.

             

            (jpeg's metadata block was afu)

             

            My (admittedly not too easy to grok) notes regarding that fix:

             

            To fix asdf.jpg problem: maker-notes offset error in the face of a bad interopIFD directory, do this:

             

            - exiftool -all:all= asdf.jpg -tagsfromfile @ -all:all -F (fixes maker notes despite bad interopIFD directory - removes all tags and rebuilds exif metadata from all readable tags.

            - exiftool asdf.jpg -tagsfromfile noprob.jpg -interopIFD:InteropIndex (copy desired interopIFD tag or any other unreadable tag from a non-problematic image - beware to copy only compatible values, otherwise set manually if you can figure out what to set them to).

            - exiftool asdf.jpg -tagsfromfile noprob.jpg -interopIFD:InteropVersion (ditto, etc...)

             

            FWIW, I submitted an 'Idea' to Adobe to re-write jpeg metadata when such errors occur (subject to user approval) - don't hold breath...

             

            R

            • 3. Re: Writing metadata to some jpegs fails.
              johnnf Community Member

              Thanks a lot Brett & Rob, will try those ideas out and get back!

              J

              • 4. Re: Writing metadata to some jpegs fails.
                areohbee Community Member

                Brett N wrote:

                 

                Could be a permissions issue or a corruption of the file that is preventing the metadata from being saved.

                 

                I think Adobe should consider making a distinction between such stuff, and notify user of problem area.

                 

                e.g. there is a big difference between "file is read-only", and "file is corrupt", and it's easy enough for software to check, but inexperienced users: not so much.

                 

                R

                • 5. Re: Writing metadata to some jpegs fails.
                  Geoff the kiwi CommunityMVP

                  Not being nitpicky Rob but tell me why "Adobe" should do this?? Adobe is a huge corporation with many. many business areas. There is a big difference between Adobe and Adobe Photoshop Lightroom.

                  I think the way to phrase it is: "It would be great for Lightroom to give more accurate error messages that inform the user of what a problem is." and "As Lightroom is a DAM tool it would make sense for it to include a file integrity checking process."

                  • 6. Re: Writing metadata to some jpegs fails.
                    johnnf Community Member

                    Seems kind-of nitpicky. Adobe has been beholding to apple users since the days of Pshop v1, if the file is corrupt, seconds after I sent it from my camera to my mac, and did nothing but try to "keyword" it in LR, its likely Lightroom's fault; but this only rarely happend with prev versions of LR. And never with iPhoto, though I haven't use that in years.

                     

                    thanks for your help ,

                    J

                    • 7. Re: Writing metadata to some jpegs fails.
                      johnnf Community Member

                      Hi, I tried putting the whole folders contents in another folder and checking permissions of individual files (jpegs), no luck.

                       

                      looking for any other suggestions.

                      Is ther a way to actually get Adobe to answser this?

                       

                      Geoff, still thinks Adobe shouldn't have to fix this?

                       

                       

                      thanks again,

                      John

                      • 8. Re: Writing metadata to some jpegs fails.
                        johnnf Community Member

                        Rob,

                        is there a version of exiftool, or another bit of software that does not require me going into terminal?

                        This is so key to the proper function of LR I am amazed Adobe hasn't tried to help on this.

                         

                        thanks for your help,

                        John

                        • 9. Re: Writing metadata to some jpegs fails.
                          Geoff the kiwi CommunityMVP

                          John, Lightroom doesn't have internal methods for moving files on disk, it uses the OS tools I don't think there is anything to fix at this stage.

                          If you want to have further staff responses I recommend you post here which is the site for bug reporting. This forum is a user to user forum for users to help users, staff visit here but do not moitor it to the same degree as Photoshop.com.

                          You are more than welcome to post a link or provide one by PM to one or more of the files so others can check it for you. I would be happy to see if I can see what is up with your files.

                          • 10. Re: Writing metadata to some jpegs fails.
                            areohbee Community Member

                            Hi John,

                             

                            There is a GUI for exiftool, but I've never used it. Note: fixing jpegs with exifTool (and preserving existing metadata) is a *very* advanced task, whether GUI or command-line. You may want to consider simpler alternatives, e.g.

                             

                            Export the jpeg as an 8-bit tiff (or jpeg) and add-to-catalog, then stack the original under it in case you learn a better way to correct it in the future, or just delete original...

                            (Lightroom creates all new metadata block upon export, so metadata corruption is fixed that way)

                             

                            There may be other tools that can simply correct bad jpegs - I haven't researched. (you may lose some hopefully-not-too-critical metadata).

                             

                            Or maybe Geoff will fix them for you.

                             

                            Rob

                            • 11. Re: Writing metadata to some jpegs fails.
                              johnnf Community Member

                              Rob,

                              I exported as jpeg and then imported as you suggested, the problem is gone, all data and adjustments were there in the new copy. I found that the image exported as Adobe 98 was a little "brighter" whereas if I exported as PhotoPro the new copy was indistinguishable.

                               

                              Is there a reason I would not want to export as PhotoPro.

                               

                              again, thanks for your help, learned a lot fom this issue.

                              John

                              • 12. Re: Writing metadata to some jpegs fails.
                                areohbee Community Member

                                johnnf wrote:

                                 

                                I found that the image exported as Adobe 98 was a little "brighter" whereas if I exported as PhotoPro the new copy was indistinguishable.

                                 

                                I assume you mean in the develop module. In library module it should look exactly the same when exported as AdobeRGB, no?

                                 

                                 

                                johnnf wrote:

                                 

                                Is there a reason I would not want to export as PhotoPro.

                                 

                                Usually it's best, I think, to export 8-bit jpegs to be used as Lr masters, in AdobeRGB. ProPhoto is designed for primary use as a 16-bit edit space, not an 8-bit output space.

                                 

                                But, I'm not so much of an expert in this area as some who may comment... - there are things I don't understand like how monitor profiles factor in to what you see...

                                 

                                 

                                R

                                • 13. Re: Writing metadata to some jpegs fails.
                                  johnnf Community Member

                                  Rob,

                                  Yes it was in the develop module.

                                  But the big problem of saving metadata is solved, though why it happens is another question for another day.

                                  Went through the entire catalog of 20,000+ images and just under 2,000 are affected. Slowly, as time permits I will export and re-import those bad boys.

                                   

                                  Thanks for all the help,

                                  John

                                  • 14. Re: Writing metadata to some jpegs fails.
                                    areohbee Community Member

                                    In my case, jpeg metadata block was corrupted by ACDSee, and it was always the same problem, so the fix was the same for all of them.

                                     

                                    Can you see what "Software" last wrote metadata block?

                                     

                                    If you're done dealing with this for now, then just forget it - I will understand...

                                     

                                    R

                                    • 15. Re: Writing metadata to some jpegs fails.
                                      johnnf Community Member

                                      sorry for the delay, I've been away.

                                       

                                      In the metadata panel, "software" is ver. 2.00. Is that what you wanted?

                                       

                                      John

                                      • 16. Re: Writing metadata to some jpegs fails.
                                        areohbee Community Member

                                        Hi John,

                                         

                                        I'm not sure if that's it or not. I was trying to ascertain which software before Lightroom last updated the metadata block, since it is probably the culprit.

                                         

                                        You can use exiftool to find out. Unfortunately I don't remember the tag name. Anyway, *if* you want to investigate further, the object is to "Sherlock Holmes" the common denominator amongst the problem files.

                                         

                                        Rob

                                        • 17. Re: Writing metadata to some jpegs fails.
                                          johnnf Community Member

                                          well its camera to LR, I'm only using Photoshop rarely, and i know the majority of these "problem" images were never in Photoshop.

                                           

                                          But I will pursue this as I export and import the 2,088 images are screwed up.

                                           

                                          Have a great fourth and thanks for your help.

                                          J

                                          • 18. Re: Writing metadata to some jpegs fails.
                                            areohbee Community Member

                                            johnnf wrote:

                                             

                                            well its camera to LR, ..., the majority of these "problem" images were never in Photoshop.

                                             

                                            Then presumably the metadata was corrupted by Lightroom itself.

                                             

                                            You can at least try to read all the tags using exiftool - sometimes there's a clue.

                                            Also, try updating a tag, since that can be even more revealing.

                                             

                                            Happy independence day to you too.

                                             

                                            Rob

                                            • 19. Re: Writing metadata to some jpegs fails.
                                              johnnf Community Member

                                              Rob,

                                              An update.

                                              A photo that will not save the updated metadata has "software" as Ver. 1.00, no actual software name, just 1.00. When I export it and re-import the "software" now reads as Adobe Photoshop Lightroom 4.1 (Macintosh).

                                              After exhaustive review I find that is only the difference. Needless to say these are photos that have been been worked on in LR and nothing else.

                                               

                                              Now I have a labeled the over 2,000 photos I have exported and re-imported, so far none of those have had the problem recur.

                                              I think that somehow the "software" label is getting corrupted and then the next time I try to update LR it doesn't recognize the file as its own?

                                               

                                              what do you think it means?

                                               

                                              many, many thanks for the help,

                                              John

                                              • 20. Re: Writing metadata to some jpegs fails.
                                                ElliR Community Member

                                                John, I don't know how this relates to your initial problem but I'll think you'll find that the 'software' version 1.00 being referred to is the Firmware version of the camera. I've just checked a few recently taken images with a new compact and both the camera Firmware version and the 'software' field in Lightrooms metadata are both showing version 1.00

                                                • 21. Re: Writing metadata to some jpegs fails.
                                                  areohbee Community Member

                                                  John,

                                                   

                                                  I doubt your speculation is spot on, but then I don't really have a better theory.

                                                   

                                                  Metadata is wonky, and if Lr is only editor, then it's the likely culprit, although it may be worth updating the camera firmware if there is an update available.

                                                   

                                                  Ciao for now,

                                                  Rob

                                                  • 22. Re: Writing metadata to some jpegs fails.
                                                    johnnf Community Member

                                                    ElliR & Rob,

                                                    Appreciate your thoughts, I have no problem being wrong just as long as I know eventually what's right.

                                                    I will see if my D90 has an upgrade available. The odd thing is that these photos have been assigned metadata in LR before without a problem, wonder if its a LR4.0 or 4.1 issue, its really gotten ridiculous since the 4.1 upgrade, whereas before I had maybe 20 pics doing tis, now its over 2000.

                                                     

                                                    many thanks, and a grateful ciao from me as well,

                                                    John

                                                    • 23. Re: Writing metadata to some jpegs fails.
                                                      areohbee Community Member

                                                      johnnf wrote:

                                                       

                                                      The odd thing is that these photos have been assigned metadata in LR before without a problem, wonder if its a LR4.0 or 4.1 issue, its really gotten ridiculous since the 4.1 upgrade, whereas before I had maybe 20 pics doing tis, now its over 2000.

                                                      It's possible. There were substantial changes to the metadata updating code in v4. I've been mostly editing raws with sidecars and haven't noticed this problem on any file yet. This is one of the reasons I'd prefer the option for Lr to not overwrite originals when updating metadata. If your metadata was being written to an xmp sidecar instead of the original jpeg, the jpegs would never have become corrupted. This is one of the smaller of many reasons..., still...

                                                       

                                                      Rob

                                                      • 24. Re: Writing metadata to some jpegs fails.
                                                        johnnf Community Member

                                                        i may consider that switch.

                                                         

                                                        john

                                                        • 25. Re: Writing metadata to some jpegs fails.
                                                          areohbee Community Member

                                                          Unfortunately, that option does not exist in Lightroom. But you can cast a vote for it here:

                                                           

                                                          http://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/add_an_option_to_prevent_writing_bac k_into_input_files

                                                           

                                                          Rob

                                                          • 26. Re: Writing metadata to some jpegs fails.
                                                            johnnf Community Member

                                                            So here's something for follow-up. I went through the prefs for LR and under catalog setting I clicked on the "automatically write changes into xmp". I did it because now I am shooting raw, but the kicker is that it is automatically saving metadata on all my files, the instant I change something. Works on jpg as easy as NEF. I haven't seen a file corrupt in over a week and it used to happen whenever I did a large metadata save, but now nothing.

                                                             

                                                            Maybe smaller incremental metadata saves is just more reliable?

                                                             

                                                            thanks again for all your help/suggestions.

                                                            John

                                                            • 27. Re: Writing metadata to some jpegs fails.
                                                              Peter_McC Community Member

                                                              Hi John, I think that this may be the issue. Until recently I had Lightroom automatically update the metadata but I changed this setting,for performance reasons, and now do batch updates at the end of each session, using a smart collection to detect the images that need updating. It is only since making the change that I have been experiencing this problem. I only have 7 files that can't be updated. 6 of them are JPG and one is DNG.

                                                               

                                                              I'll try the export and reimport action and see if this will solve the problem.

                                                               

                                                              Peter

                                                              • 28. Re: Writing metadata to some jpegs fails.
                                                                johnnf Community Member

                                                                Peter_McC,

                                                                 

                                                                I have now been using the automatic metadata update for over 3 months and continue to have no problems.

                                                                Sometimes automatic is easier, huh?

                                                                • 29. Re: Writing metadata to some jpegs fails.
                                                                  Peter_McC Community Member

                                                                  I created a preset to export to same folder as original, same format as original, and stack with (above) original. I used this on the seven files, and it has solved the problem without losing any metadata.

                                                                   

                                                                  The jpegs had at some point been processed by Photoshop Elements as they were imported/edited using that application in 2010 but the metadata problem didn't show up until recently when I was making some adjustments in Lightroom. I somehow think this may be related to the GPS tag though I don't have sufficient evidence.

                                                                   

                                                                  The DNG file was strange in that it was straight the camera with no Lightroom adjustments, although I did add GPS info in the Map module. Anway it is now fixed as well as the jpegs.

                                                                   

                                                                  With this preset it would be possible quickly to fix a large number of image files. Just create a Smart Collection to display the problem files and run the preset on them all in one go. The only things that I am aware of that you would need to look out for are (1) if they are in a collection other than a smart collection, or have been published to a service like Flickr or to the Hard Disk the link will be broken, and (2) If you like to sort photos by date/time added, they will be out of the sequence (capture time is fine).

                                                                   

                                                                  When you are satisfied that this has worked OK then you can delete the images from the "Metadata Not Up To Date" smart collection. Select all, go to all photos, they should remain selected and press Delete. You could do a thousand in one go if you have the nerve for it

                                                                   

                                                                  Hope this helps.

                                                                   

                                                                  Peter

                                                                  • 30. Re: Writing metadata to some jpegs fails.
                                                                    johnnf Community Member

                                                                    Hi,

                                                                    the only thing I would add is that this "issue" caused me to go to shooting Raw 98% of the time, to keep the metadata clean and separate from the actual photo. ergo no chance to corrupt the photo from repeated metadata updating. whether or not that happens I avoid worrying about it.

                                                                    I like LR better than ever now, and if it ever lets you do panos without going to photoshop, that may be the end of using photoshop at all.