25 Replies Latest reply on Nov 27, 2012 6:07 AM by Kurt Lang

    Capture stops no matter what settings I try.

    Kurt Lang Level 1

      It doesn't seem to be possible to tell Premiere Pro to capture a video until you tell it to stop. To save others from taking a trip around the web for a help page, I've already found and read this topic. We're trying to capture VHS video. Typical VHS player attached to a Datavideo DAC-100 converter. Output from the converter via FireWire.

       

      First I'll cover the steps we tried. This to save time asking if we've tried x,y,z.

       

      1) Turned off Scene Detect and Abort capture on dropped frames (actually, never had them on for any attempt).

       

      2) Under Device Control, we've tried both selecting Datavideo (which is the type of converter we have) and Generic. Also tried all three of the Timecode Format options with both device options.

       

      3) Tried it with the Device Control set to None (which produced the best run we could get with a manual start).

       

      4) This is on mid 2010 Westmere Mac Pro, 6-Core Intel Xeon with 16 GB of RAM.

       

      5) Have tried both in Snow Leopard, 10.6.8 with Premiere Pro CS 5.5 and under Lion 10.7.4 with Premiere Pro CS 6.

       

      6) Tried clicking Tape to start the recording (the worst results no matter what the other settings) and a manual start (the best).

       

      After going round and round, we finally determined what's happening. Premiere Pro is stopping the capture anytime it thinks it detects a time code difference. This no matter where we have the settings.

       

      If you click on Tape to start, it's the worst. Any change (the video camera was turned off, then turned back on even just 5 seconds later), the capture stops. Very annoying since the tape is still running but you have to dismiss the naming box and then click record again. In that time you've lost the part of the video that was still going while you scramble to start it again. No, you can't back up because it keeps stopping at the same change in the playback.

       

      What worked best was to set the Device Control to None, so the capture wouldn't be getting any type of timecode info from the Datavideo device, and clicking the manual record button.

       

      Still a problem, though. The recording will run through short changes in the timecodes without stopping, but will still halt on a major change. Such as family videos a few months apart. They're right next to each other on the tape, like a cut scene, but the capture stops! And again, you cannot back up to get those missed 5-10 seconds because Premiere Pro will keep stopping on the switch.

       

      So, how in the world do you tell Premiere Pro to continue capturing until YOU tell it to stop?

        • 1. Re: Capture stops no matter what settings I try.
          Jim_Simon Level 8

          On Windows, it just works.

          • 2. Re: Capture stops no matter what settings I try.
            Kurt Lang Level 1

            Now perhaps you could supply a useful comment?

            • 3. Re: Capture stops no matter what settings I try.
              Jim_Simon Level 8

              Sorry.  Like I said, that issue has just never cropped up on my Windows rig.

              • 4. Re: Capture stops no matter what settings I try.
                Kurt Lang Level 1

                First, apologies. As someone with 20K+ posts, I shouldn't have read your comment as the tired Mac vs. PC type of response. Anyone who does that regularly will usually get the boot by the hosts long before a person reaches your level.

                 

                In actuality, you've brought up a point I can use. To get past this particular project, I can download the Windows Premiere Pro trial, install it on my Win 7 Boot Camp partition and do the captures from there.

                 

                I certainly am not going to buy a Windows copy when I already own the Mac Master Collection. But this will do until Adobe, or another member can come up with a possible solution, or a fix if it's an actual bug.

                • 5. Re: Capture stops no matter what settings I try.
                  Harm Millaard Level 7

                  The problem is, that there are more PC users than MC users and AFAIK no PC user has a problem capturing, unless they have faulty cables or something similar. But you may have another problem using bootcamp and that is the wrapper. Using bootcamp will result in AVI files and though I know MAC users do not always have problems with AVI files, the normal capture on a MAC would result in a MOV wrapper. But you can try if that works.

                  • 6. Re: Capture stops no matter what settings I try.
                    John T Smith Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                    >stopping the capture anytime it thinks it detects a time code difference

                     

                    Over in the Windows side of things, there are 3rd party programs to work with Firewire video which are "smarter" than PPro's rather limited Firewire module

                     

                    Even without installing a PPro trial in your virtual Win setup, you might see if one of these programs works for you... or Google to fine a Mac alternative

                     

                    Use OnLocation http://forums.adobe.com/thread/968911 or...
                    I have NOT used either, but many say to try these for SD capture

                    http://windv.mourek.cz/ or http://www.exsate.com/products/dvcapture/
                    .
                    I have NOT used it, but many say to try this for HDV capture

                    http://strony.aster.pl/paviko/hdvsplit.htm
                    -Regular interrupt due to card http://forums.adobe.com/thread/978014

                    • 7. Re: Capture stops no matter what settings I try.
                      Kurt Lang Level 1

                      Thanks for the info, Harm. Looking at an older PDF manual for CS5, the Mac version can import .avi files, so that shouldn't be a problem.

                       

                      There's no doubt Windows users have a big head start with the production suite. The last Apple software I was using was Final Cut Studio 3 (grudgingly). For two versions I was waiting for Apple to do something, anything, to bring that suite into the 21st century. Our main issue was Blu-ray disks. We create a fair number of those. You could burn them straight out of Final Cut Studio 7, but you had zero control over how it presented on screen. DVD Studio Pro could assemble a Blu-ray authored setup with all of menus and other things you would expect for a decent presentation, but it couldn't burn a Blu-ray disk, or even output a BDMV folder, which I could then write to a Blu-ray disk with Toast Titanium. In other words, it was useless.

                       

                      The final straw was the totally revamped Final Cut Pro X (what a joke!), with only a modest change to Compressor and Motion. But the real kick in the teeth was not only did Apple not do anything to upgrade DVD Studio Pro, they just plain dropped it!

                       

                      Adobe, thank goodness, saw an opportunity and offered a cross-upgrade to the Production Suite. I tried a trial version of it and Avid. Avid was just plain weird, and looked and acted like the 15 year old interface it was. Adobe's software on the other hand, was essentially just like stepping out of Final Cut Studio and into almost the identical workflow and interface. It was so easy to use, I almost couldn't believe it.

                       

                      The more I use it, the more I realize Adobe's software just kicks the tar out of any version of Final Cut Studio Apple ever had. Honest to goodness accurate NTSC and HD profiles you can convert your still images to. I can work on my computer's monitor in a standard prepress 5000K, 1.8 gamma monitor profile (Photoshop set to the monitor profile as the working color space), convert the final sized stills to the appropriate video standard and I know the color will look exactly like that on the completed disk; without even having a reference monitor!

                       

                      Adobe's compression also hands downs kicks Compressor around the room. Much sharper, accurate results (can you tell I love this suite? ) There's no way I will ever go back to Apple's video suite no matter what they do to it, and they've lost a lot of people, mostly to Adobe's suite.

                      • 8. Re: Capture stops no matter what settings I try.
                        Kurt Lang Level 1

                        Thank you very much for the links, John. I just finished installing the Premiere Pro trial in Win 7. Haven't started trying to capture anything yet. If I still do have problems, I can give those a try. I might even spring the $29 for FInal Cut Pro X and use it strictly, and only for captures. That would save the nuisance of jumping back and forth between platforms to do one function.

                        • 9. Re: Capture stops no matter what settings I try.
                          John T Smith Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                          I hope you find a solution that is both low cost, and WORKS for you

                           

                          My first computer was an Apple IIe (about a million years ago, in computer clock terms) which worked very well for what I wanted at that time

                           

                          I switched to an IBM clone to be able to use dBase (and the Clipper compiler) to create standalone database applications

                           

                          My computer is a tool, and each person needs to pick the tool that works best for them... so I don't get into the Mac-vs-PC discussions

                           

                          If you can't find a free software tool for your Mac, $29 is a low price to pay for staying on the same platform

                          • 10. Re: Capture stops no matter what settings I try.
                            Kurt Lang Level 1

                            I hope you find a solution that is both low cost, and WORKS for you

                            So far, so good. Started with one of the tapes that kept halting about every 2 minutes in the Mac version, and it's going non-stop in the Windows version of Premiere Pro. All settings exactly as I had them in OS X. So it sure looks like a bug to me. Seeing the transitions as end-of-tape? Who knows, but it sure shouldn't be stopping on a manual capture. I'll file a bug report, along with a link to this thread. Now I just need to find where to file a report on Adobe's site.

                            My first computer was an Apple IIe (about a million years ago, in computer clock terms) which worked very well for what I wanted at that time

                            Opposite for me. First computer was an IBM XT clone running DOS 3.1. Like most people, we went PC because they were much cheaper. I started digital color & retouching on Scitex Imager III workstations, roughly 7 years before there was such a thing as Photoshop 1.0. Eventually, Macs took over prepress as they became powerful enough, and Photoshop 4 could do everything (and more) than the very expensive, proprietary workstations. The more I used Macs, the more I preferred them. I still like Windows (Win 7 I think is actually very good), but rarely have the need to be in it. Made the switch entirely to Mac about 15 years ago when I started my own prepress service. Virtually all such work is still Mac based, and it was just good business sense not to try and mix platforms with your clients.

                            My computer is a tool, and each person needs to pick the tool that works best for them... so I don't get into the Mac-vs-PC discussions

                            Absolutely! I am so tired of people that put their platform devotion ahead of anything else. If what you purchased does what you need, then it was a good purchase. It's the same dumb thing as Ford owners hating Chevys, or visa versa. Who cares? You didn't buy it, or drive it, so what difference does it make to you?

                            If you can't find a free software tool for your Mac, $29 is a low price to pay for staying on the same platform

                            Yeah, I never had any problems capturing with Final Cut Pro, so if that's all I have to cough up to handle this issue until Premiere Pro is fixed (or it turns out to be some other obscure issue), at least it's a cheap solution.

                            • 11. Re: Capture stops no matter what settings I try.
                              Jim_Simon Level 8

                              I might even spring the $29 for FInal Cut Pro X and use it strictly, and only for captures.

                               

                              You sure that's possible?  One of the major complaints when that hit is that it had zero tape-based functionality, neither in nor out.  FCP X was for tapeless media only.

                              • 13. Re: Capture stops no matter what settings I try.
                                Kurt Lang Level 1

                                You sure that's possible? One of the major complaints when that hit is that it had zero tape-based functionality, neither in nor out. FCP X was for tapeless media only.

                                Oh, drat! That's right. Another reason pros were miffed at Apple with FCPX. Sure, eventually everyone will shoot digital, but an awful lot of people out there still have awfully expensive tape cameras they aren't just going to toss in the trash. So that idea is definitely out.

                                • 14. Re: Capture stops no matter what settings I try.
                                  Kurt Lang Level 1

                                  Thank you, John. Hadn't taken the time to look yet. You saved me the trouble.

                                  • 15. Re: Capture stops no matter what settings I try.
                                    Kurt Lang Level 1

                                    Just for the sake of testing further to see if it's specifically a Premiere Pro issue in OS X, I downloaded and installed Premiere Elements 10 for Mac. Same thing. It halts all on its own with the tape still running.

                                     

                                    Edit: Forgot to mention. While it does tend to halt on cut scenes in the Mac version or Premiere Pro, it does also randomly stop anywhere in the playback, and quite often. Lion was installed on an erased drive, and then the CS6 Master Collection. That's all I have on the partition so far, so it's a very clean install. No third party drivers, other than for a Logitech mouse and MS keyboard. Those same Windows versions of the drivers are installed in Win 7, where the capture works just fine. Doesn't mean they can't be causing an issue in OS X, but I doubt it.

                                    • 16. Re: Capture stops no matter what settings I try.
                                      Kurt Lang Level 1

                                      I'm almost 100% certain I've found the problem. After much dinging around (trying a different Mac Pro, creating a new user account, clearing all cache and swap files, etc.), I tried to find a third party solution for the Mac. There aren't many, and the better rated ones cost just under $100. No way, I already have very expensive software that should work.

                                       

                                      Then I thought of using QuickTime. I have a Pro key for QuickTime 7, and QuickTime X as is will both capture video. Then came the "Ah, HAH!" moment. Using just QT to capture the VHS video produces exactly the same problems you see in Premiere Pro. It halts as soon as you press the play button to start the tape. You start the recording again while the tape is running and it halts again after anywhere from a few seconds to 20 minutes. Capture in Premiere Pro must be using QuickTime underneath as the feed since the way it stops on its own is too similar to the way QT stops to be coincidental.

                                       

                                      In Lion, when QuickTime X stops, it just gives the message, "Recording stopped". In Snow Leopard, the message is more verbose with, "Recording stopped because the maximum duration for the file has been reached. Try continuing in a new file." I don't know about Apple, but I'm pretty sure a 5 MB, 10 second video file can't be the maximum duration.

                                       

                                      Something is clearly wrong with QuickTime in Snow Leopard and forward. It stops, so Premiere Pro stops. I would certainly be interested in hearing if any other Mac users are not having this issue, but I'd be somewhat surprised if you weren't.

                                       

                                      I suppose it's possible that QuickTime in OS X just doesn't like my Datavideo converter, but the same unit worked just fine in Snow Leopard when capturing in Final Cut Pro 7 when I had that software.

                                       

                                      Now to submit a bug report to Apple and see what they say (though they rarely actually respond to you on them).

                                      • 17. Re: Capture stops no matter what settings I try.
                                        josephs51576386 Level 3

                                        They can't really respond without admitting something is wrong with their programs. Which if they did admit to it I'd be suprised. They flat out denied the malware problems they where experincing until very recently when they where forced to change their wording on their website.

                                         

                                        http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=25022

                                        • 18. Re: Capture stops no matter what settings I try.
                                          Jim_Simon Level 8
                                          Something is clearly wrong with QuickTime

                                           

                                          Now there's a shocker.

                                           

                                          I guess that would explain why I never saw this issue under Windows.

                                          • 19. Re: Capture stops no matter what settings I try.
                                            John T Smith Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                            >tried to find a third party solution for the Mac. There aren't many, and the better rated ones cost just under $100

                                             

                                            That's too bad... as I said upstream, I've not used the programs I linked to, I just made note of their links after many mentions

                                             

                                            I don't know if programming for a PC is easier than for a Mac, or if it just a matter of market share, but there do seem to be a "fair number" of "free" programs that rely on donations from satisfied users to keep the programmer interested is supporting/upgrading his/her program

                                             

                                            Since you already know that the Windows version of PPro works on your computer, you might try the hdvsplit and see if it works, so you don't have to buy the Windows PPro

                                             

                                            As far as Quicktime... I don't use MOV files so do not have it installed, not even the free player

                                            • 20. Re: Capture stops no matter what settings I try.
                                              Kurt Lang Level 1

                                              That's too bad... as I said upstream, I've not used the programs I linked to, I just made note of their links after many mentions

                                              And I do appreciate the links. I was just trying to find a way to avoid booting back and forth. But the one SD app you linked to is free, so you can't beat that!

                                               

                                              I have to wonder if this is a more recent bug in QuickTime. When I used Final Cut Pro, it used QT7 for captures and it worked fine. But that was a fairly long time ago now. A change Apple has made to QT since then may have introduced the error. Problem there is, I don't know how old of a version of QT7 I can get for the Mac which will still run under Snow Leopard. I'd like to test though, if possible, to see if an older version works.

                                              • 21. Re: Capture stops no matter what settings I try.
                                                Kurt Lang Level 1

                                                Okay, I think I have a final answer on this. I did file a bug report to Apple and they said they couldn't duplicate the problem. Which is kind of hard to believe after narrowing the real problem down. I went about it much more slowly and methodically and came up with an entirely reproducible issue. The problem is the Adobe apps (partly). Specifically, the installation of.

                                                 

                                                With Snow Leopard, Lion and Mountain Lion, I started by erasing a drive and installing the OS from scratch so it was clean. No third party drivers added, all updates applied. At that point, you could capture video with no stalling or unexpected stopping using QuickTime X or QuickTime 7.

                                                 

                                                I then installed the CS6 Master Collection. Right after that, the capture stoppages returned. Didn't matter if you were trying to do it in QT directly, or the Capture function within Premiere Pro (which uses QT to do that anyway, so it's really the same thing). I did the same test starting over on an erased drive and CS5.5. In all cases, the results were the same. Capturing video was broken after installing the Adobe suites.

                                                 

                                                The fix was to reinstall the OS after installing the Adobe software. A pain in the rear, but it fixed whatever the Adobe install broke.

                                                 

                                                The one thing that is directly a problem with QuickTime is how it captures the VCR's signal. You must start the tape first, and then the capture. If you do anything with the VCR after the capture has already started (stop, rewind, forward, play), the capture instantly stops. That I did report back as a bug to Apple. QT shouldn't be paying the least bit of attention to what the user does at the VCR. The only thing it should be doing is recording the analog output until you tell it to stop.

                                                • 22. Re: Capture stops no matter what settings I try.
                                                  the_brunerd

                                                  Did the Adobe apps put anything new in /Library/Quicktime? Is it capturing to a new codec that was installed?

                                                  I've done quite a bit of capturing of analog signals and while it's annoying that fast forwarding or doing something on the VCR will stop capture, I believe it is because the the timebase of the video signal is being broken at that point. Jitter free analog video relies on a TBC on the hardware that is sending the signal and if the timebase goes out, then the capturing hardware doesn't know where the video signal starts (analog video being geared toward CRT's that to do scan lines on the tube). So I think that's just a fundamental part of analog video being digitized.

                                                   

                                                  The only way around it, I've found is if you have a standalone DVD recorder that can take in analog video and not go to blue screen or freak out when the analog source loses sync. I have a Samsung I got a few years ago that can tolerate this, so I record in via the composite inputs, then I finalize the disc, I copy the disc in whole and because I am on a mac, just add .dvdmedia to the folder and DVD Player will play it back as if it were a disc. You can also convert the VIDEO_TS folder with MPEG Streamclip to the codec of your choosing. It's how I've captured some poor quality that lose tracking and go to static...

                                                  • 23. Re: Capture stops no matter what settings I try.
                                                    Kurt Lang Level 1

                                                    Did the Adobe apps put anything new in /Library/Quicktime?

                                                    Nothing there from Adobe.

                                                    Is it capturing to a new codec that was installed?

                                                    I doubt it. You can use QuickTime by itself to capture video exactly the same way. It appears Premiere Pro is just putting a pretty face on the function.

                                                    I've done quite a bit of capturing of analog signals and while it's annoying that fast forwarding or doing something on the VCR will stop capture, I believe it is because the the timebase of the video signal is being broken at that point.

                                                    Certainly logical sounding, but I had installed the Premiere Pro demo in Windows 7 to see if the same thing would happen there. It doesn't. You can stop the tape, rewind or anything else during a capture in the Win version, and it will just keep recording whatever is coming from the VCR. Even if it's the standard blue screen VCRs show when a tape has been stopped. I also didn't notice any problem with the video/audio sync when doing that.

                                                     

                                                    But it's okay. I know now to start the capture first and then just let the tape run. Oh, and a little addendum. The Mac (or Windows) is of course not capturing an analog signal, it's capturing a digitally converted video from the datavideo converter.

                                                    • 24. Re: Capture stops no matter what settings I try.
                                                      Brent Garden

                                                      Have you had any positive progress on this yet Kurt?  I am experiencing exactly the same issues with the added joy of continual freezing during the capture process requiring a forced quit. 

                                                      • 25. Re: Capture stops no matter what settings I try.
                                                        Kurt Lang Level 1

                                                        Hi Brent,

                                                         

                                                        Yes, as noted above, reinstalling the OS after the Adobe suite fixed the freezing problem. See the post above marked with green lines on the left and right sides.