24 Replies Latest reply on Jul 6, 2012 5:31 PM by conleec

    MXO2 vs Decklink for monitoring

    preditorj40153117 Level 1

      Master suite cs5

       

      I am looking for something that will improve my external monitoring. (dell ultra sharp)

       

      I am not really concerned with its encoding capabilities and i only use avchd, prores and dvcpro. Compressor (fcs2) is fine for h264 encoding. My capture is normally from an sd card.

       

      I am not even sure if a Flanders and a Kona3 is necessary as the internet slowly takes over traditional TV broadcasting and high quality h264 begins to be a standard.

       

      What i am trying to get is a better way to monitor the color as i am creating looks with PP, AE and magic bullet.

       

      so could i go for a cheaper alternative and get better monitoring than my current BM intensity via hdmi?

       

      cheaper than mxo2

        • 1. Re: MXO2 vs Decklink for monitoring
          shooternz Level 6

          I will tell you later today.

           

          I am just about to install a BM SDI Decklink card.

           

          I am doing this mainly for external monitoring of my Resolve application...but will be curious to see how well it works in Premiere CS6 (Mercury Transmit)

           

           

          FWIW: I have not heard anything positively conclusive about how well PPRO CS6 works with 3rd party cards...and I did ask the other day.  No replies.

           

          Just asking.. but do you have an issue with monitoring quality via  BM Intensity Pro ( hdmi) ?

          • 2. Re: MXO2 vs Decklink for monitoring
            Jim_Simon Level 8

            Compressor (fcs2) is fine for h264 encoding.

             

            You may want to rethink that.

             

            "...you’ll be happy to know that Adobe Media Encoder is much easier to use than Compressor, encodes faster, and produces much higher quality [H.264] output..."

             

            http://www.eventdv.net/Articles/News/Feature/Tutorial-Encoding-H.264-Video-in-Adobe-Media- Encoder-CS5.5-and-Apple-Compressor-4-80446.htm

            • 3. Re: MXO2 vs Decklink for monitoring
              shooternz Level 6

              Win 7 CS6

               

              O.K ..first impressions..just installed and quickly set up BM SDI Decklink Card.

               

              Works exactly as I intended for Da Vinci Resolve.  No issues..easy...pleased.

               

              CS6 Premiere...this will need some work to get it functioning to what I would consider perfect NLE external monitoring...and (surprisingly) it seems one is still required to use the 3rd party BM Sequence Preset.ie. It wont monitor any other Sequence .(Maybe someone can correct me on this?)

               

              I am still fiddling with it but as I do not particularly require this monitoring solution in PPRO..will not waste a lot of time on it.

               

              Suggestion to OP.  If you have got the Intensity Pro Card working well...stick with it. Doubt there is anything much to gain in video quality.

              • 4. Re: MXO2 vs Decklink for monitoring
                SimonHy Level 2

                I use a BM SDI Decklink card, and it works pretty well in Premiere. I say pretty well because there is a very slight lag to it. As the Transmit technology is new in CS6 I'm fairly forgiving of this, hopefully new updates from Black Magic and Adobe fix this over time.

                 

                It works fine from any sequence preset for me, not just the Black Magic ones.

                 

                If you want better monitoring, I would definitely be looking at upgrading your monitor, not your output card.

                 

                Jim Simon wrote:

                 

                Compressor (fcs2) is fine for h264 encoding.

                 

                You may want to rethink that.

                 

                "...you’ll be happy to know that Adobe Media Encoder is much easier to use than Compressor, encodes faster, and produces much higher quality [H.264] output..."

                 

                http://www.eventdv.net/Articles/News/Feature/Tutorial-Encoding-H.264-V ideo-in-Adobe-Media-Encoder-CS5.5-and-Apple-Compressor-4-80446.htm

                 

                I'd be interested in more details about that, like what settings they used in Compressor and what the relative file sizes were between the two outputs. I've done a lot of h264 outputs from Compressor and I've never seen anything like the obvious levels of data loss they're showing. That said, I use Compressor 3, they're using Compressor 4. Maybe someone who's familiar with Compressor 4 can confirm whether things have changed and they no longer have a high quality output mode or something?

                • 5. Re: MXO2 vs Decklink for monitoring
                  shooternz Level 6

                  It works fine from any sequence preset for me, not just the Black Magic ones.

                   

                  That interests me.  I will fiddle more sometime.

                   

                  Lag..is there not a setting in BM Desktop Video Control Panel that adjusts that?

                  • 6. Re: MXO2 vs Decklink for monitoring
                    SimonHy Level 2

                    shooternz wrote:

                     

                     

                    Lag..is there not a setting in BM Desktop Video Control Panel that adjusts that?

                     

                    Nope. In FCP it was adjusted within the app. Premiere doesn't seem to have that functionality.

                     

                    It sounds like people are experiencing lag regardless what card they're using at the moment, so hopefully it's something they're working on.

                    • 7. Re: MXO2 vs Decklink for monitoring
                      Pijetro Level 1

                      I'm just wondering..

                      Since you're using a BD preset to monitor the video, do you lose the Cuda capabilities for realtime CC or any of the GPU enhanced effects?

                      • 8. Re: MXO2 vs Decklink for monitoring
                        shooternz Level 6

                        I cant tell you at the moment because I do not have the card working anywhere near properly in PPRO as it seems SimonHy does.

                         

                        With Resolve it was install... select and play.  With PPRO it seems to need to be a setup that needs to be fiddled with!

                        • 9. Re: MXO2 vs Decklink for monitoring
                          SimonHy Level 2

                          I just opened up a Black Magic preset and loaded some CUDA effects into it and they seem fine; render bar stayed the same, played in realtime... but as I said, you don't actually need to use the BM presets.

                           

                          Shooter: Have you enabled the output card in Premiere's Preferences -> Playback?

                          • 10. Re: MXO2 vs Decklink for monitoring
                            Jim_Simon Level 8

                            Maybe...Compressor 4...no longer [has] a high quality output mode?

                             

                            That sure would be step backwards.  Though it may well be possible.  "...It doesnt support the high profile..."

                            • 11. Re: MXO2 vs Decklink for monitoring
                              Pijetro Level 1

                              That's great to know Simon.

                               

                              But to monitor interlaced output, or cross convert HD/SD footage to SD/HD monitors, then a BM preset would be necessary for proper calibration and playback.

                               

                              If what you're saying is true, then it's a huge step forward for PPro, to be able to have the best of both worlds.

                              Keep the correct viewing ouptut, and keep the Cuda.

                              • 12. Re: MXO2 vs Decklink for monitoring
                                SimonHy Level 2

                                Jim Simon wrote:


                                That sure would be step backwards.

                                 

                                Well.. it was packaged with FCPX, so anything's possible. Maybe they took out the high quality settings so it would better match the NLE.

                                • 13. Re: MXO2 vs Decklink for monitoring
                                  josephs51576386 Level 3

                                  Jim Simon wrote:

                                   

                                  Compressor (fcs2) is fine for h264 encoding.

                                   

                                  You may want to rethink that.

                                   

                                  "...you’ll be happy to know that Adobe Media Encoder is much easier to use than Compressor, encodes faster, and produces much higher quality [H.264] output..."

                                   

                                  http://www.eventdv.net/Articles/News/Feature/Tutorial-Encoding-H.264-V ideo-in-Adobe-Media-Encoder-CS5.5-and-Apple-Compressor-4-80446.htm

                                  Media encoder doesn't go faster, it goes a crap load faster.

                                  I watched a friend of mine using compressor the other day and it was laughable watching how slowly it ran.

                                  • 14. Re: MXO2 vs Decklink for monitoring
                                    preditorj40153117 Level 1

                                    I have been using FCP since v3. I currently run fcs2 and ppro. I probably use them equally but i can get more style out of pp w/ae backing it up.

                                     

                                    I can not say that AME is faster with h264 than compressor. I can say that compressor 2 is better than 3 and 3 is better than 4. I know...I know that sounds crazy but i have tested this.

                                    AME does well also but there seems to be more control in comp2. maybe cause its native.

                                     

                                    Mercury what?  hahahahaha

                                     

                                    I wish i could use a sexy feature like that on my 2,1 or 1,1 quad mac. It still like what pp does for me without it though.  I like the fact that there is no intermediate for avchd. Funny thing is that my 2.4ghz laptop is already nvidia with a few cuda cores, its just to small to do long or effects intensive work.

                                     

                                    i just want to get a clean signal out with the right perameters to monitor.

                                    • 15. Re: MXO2 vs Decklink for monitoring
                                      SimonHy Level 2

                                      Preditor Corbett wrote:

                                       

                                       

                                      i just want to get a clean signal out with the right perameters to monitor.

                                       

                                      What is it that makes you think you're not getting that with your current Black Magic card? Even if you change your card, you're still outputting to an LCD monitor. That's the weak link.

                                       

                                      If you really want CUDA, macvidcards on ebay does a hacked GTX285 that works on the early Mac Pros.

                                       

                                       

                                      Pijetro wrote:

                                       

                                      a BM preset would be necessary for proper calibration and playback.

                                       

                                      I'm fairly new to Premiere, so maybe I've got this wrong, but it's my understanding that this is no longer the case with the new Transmit technology in CS6.

                                      • 16. Re: MXO2 vs Decklink for monitoring
                                        shooternz Level 6

                                        @ SimonHy

                                         

                                        Shooter: Have you enabled the output card in Premiere's Preferences -> Playback?

                                         

                                         

                                        That is maybe the issue and a faulty install.

                                         

                                        In PPRO, I can see that I have an option for BM Video Player ( as well as Adobe Player) but I can not see it in the Device Box ( where I can see my 2x Monitors and Adobe DV options)

                                         

                                        Looks like the Device Plugin has not installed in PPRO CS6

                                         

                                        Can you confirm that I should see the BM SDI Card as a device please.

                                        • 17. Re: MXO2 vs Decklink for monitoring
                                          SimonHy Level 2

                                          Yep, I can  see "Blackmagic Playback" as an option to tick within Video Devices. Sounds like something hasn't installed right. Are you using the newest Black Magic Desktop Video? 9.5.2. They just put it out in the last week or so, and it's definitely improved performance over the previous version.

                                          • 18. Re: MXO2 vs Decklink for monitoring
                                            Averdahl Level 3

                                            shooternz,

                                             

                                            It sounds like you may have used the drivers on the CD shipped with the card. They are old, so make sure to use the latest: Decklink SDI Dirvers - Desktop Video 9.5.3 for Windows

                                             

                                            If you have used the latest drivers: Un-install the ones you have installed > Re-boot > Re-install the latest drivers > Re-boot.

                                             

                                            Hopefully this solves the issue for you!

                                             

                                            /Roger

                                            • 19. Re: MXO2 vs Decklink for monitoring
                                              Jeff Bellune Level 5

                                              [Moved to Hardware Forum]

                                              • 20. Re: MXO2 vs Decklink for monitoring
                                                preditorj40153117 Level 1

                                                so whats better BMDL or MXO2 for external monitoring?

                                                 

                                                I had a project mate who used an led to monitor. He got pretty good results. He also mentions that the mxo2 was helping the monitor.

                                                I have a very high quality led but its my main screenand tends to lean blue.

                                                 

                                                Basically is there any truth to mxo2 improving the monitor or adjusting the color stream to improve color accuaracy?

                                                • 21. Re: MXO2 vs Decklink for monitoring
                                                  SimonHy Level 2

                                                  Preditor Corbett wrote:

                                                   

                                                  Basically is there any truth to mxo2 improving the monitor or adjusting the color stream to improve color accuaracy?

                                                   

                                                  No. The whole point of these cards is to provide the unvarnished truth about what your media looks like. They should look identical. I haven't used a MX02, but I had a Kona card before my current Black Magic one and they certainly looked the same to me. The card shouldn't make things look better, it should give you an accurate image so you can make it look better, if that's what it needs.

                                                  • 22. Re: MXO2 vs Decklink for monitoring
                                                    preditorj40153117 Level 1

                                                    Its the great conundrum to me.

                                                     

                                                    on one hand my main monitor isn't correct. On the other hand monitoring out of my bmi isn't good enough. The FS monitor is way out of my league yet i am told that i need one. The ultra sharp has incorect color, so i am told. Apple cinema displays are discontinued and the color folks say its not right either.

                                                     

                                                    I am starting to think its a myth. If i am looking at a video on line with my main monitor and then i shoot some video and can recreate the same look on the same monitor. Its probably right. It doesn't make sence to me otherwise.

                                                     

                                                    Same video on the same screen and then i create the same look on that screen then why isn't it right? When i go to a big boy studio and use an external to create the look, then upload it . It does not give me the intended look. Its always off a bit. But with my sub par BMI and a a Ultra sharp it is very very close.

                                                     

                                                    I think the bigtimers just tell us these things to make us think we are always doing something wrong. What were they using before someone laid a 50k project in front of them.

                                                     

                                                    I have done over 60 commercials in the last 3 years and i dont get complaints or rejections from Comcast, ATT, or Direct TV. I am just a better chaser, not perfection just better. I really dont get it.

                                                     

                                                    conundrum without a justification.

                                                     

                                                    excuse the slight rantiness in this post. Its not meant to offend, its just honest thoughts.

                                                    • 23. Re: MXO2 vs Decklink for monitoring
                                                      ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

                                                      Find an IPS monitor that will meet your price and color range and get a Coloimeter to calibrate it. Then your monitor options are open. Part of the reason the Pro monitors are so expensive is the profiles they include in the firmware.


                                                      Eric

                                                      ADK

                                                      • 24. Re: MXO2 vs Decklink for monitoring
                                                        conleec Level 1

                                                        Well, I've been using an MXO2 Mini Max with Premiere Pro CS6 and it was stellar. I was cutting Red, 5k natively without a hitch. Perfect output to the client monitor from both the source and record monitors in PP. No settings necessary, outside of selecting Matrox as my playback device in both video and audio windows.

                                                         

                                                        Today I unistalled my Matrox and installed a BM Intensity Pro because it works better with Avid MC (my primary NLE). Unfortunately, while my Avid is VERY happy, my PP CS6 is decidedly LESS happy with the Intensity Pro card.

                                                         

                                                        I can only get video output to a client monitor so long as I have my sequence setting at 1080p or less. And if I'm dealing with Red footage this basically makes CS6 unusable, because I can't view my source footage on the client monitor. It won't appear until I've cut footage into a sequence. This doesn't work for me.

                                                         

                                                        Unfortunately, I'll either have to migrate back to the Matrox MXO2 Mini Max, or not have client monitoring when using PP CS6. Unless somebody can please tell me that I have this wrong?

                                                         

                                                        Chris Conlee

                                                        MacPro 4,1

                                                        24Gb RAM

                                                        Intensity Pro

                                                        GTX 285