24 Replies Latest reply on Jul 20, 2013 2:51 PM by GraeMagruder

    Spot inks not represented correctly problem

    CML326

      Hello,

       

      I am a major novice with using indesign and I am fumbling my way through editing a manual, but I am having problems with some spot inks with pictures and I haven't a clue what it is talking about.

       

      the message says:

      " Spot inks 'PANTONE Process Cyan C' and 'PROCESS Process Black C' cannot be represented correctly within InDesign.  The inks will color separate correctly, but will appear gray on screen and in composite output."

       

      The images are also really blurry and just not right, and hoping that by fixing these spot ink things that will sort itself out.

       

      PLEASE HELP ME!!

      Thank you

      Louise

        • 1. Re: Spot inks not represented correctly problem
          rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

          Why are you specing a process color as a spot? You can make a cyan or black swatch and not use a spot color at all:

           

          Screen shot 2012-07-18 at 7.36.00 AM.png

          • 2. Re: Spot inks not represented correctly problem
            CML326 Level 1

            The manual was already put together by professional graphic designers, and this is a second edition, and so I have been asked to do edits, which text edits I worked out how to do. but the pictures were pixilated from the start, and now I am trying to sort it, and it comes up with that message which I don't know how to fix.

            I tried going into the swatch options, and changed it from spot to process earlier, but it didn't make any difference and still came up with th message.

            • 3. Re: Spot inks not represented correctly problem
              Eugene Tyson Adobe Community Professional & MVP

              As Rob says, you don't need to have these as Spot colours - just add a new swatch and make sure it's set to Process. Then you can have 100% Cyan, Magenta, Yellow, or Black - no need for spots here.

               

              Pictures appear blurry as InDesign is NOT an image viewer, it's a page layout tool. When you place or view an image in InDesign you are viewing a lo-res raster proxy version, for simulation of the layout. The image is linked to the original file, which you can see in the Links Panel - Window>Links.

               

              You can also use the Info Panel - Window>Info - to inspect the quality of the image in terms of resolution.

               

              There are two things that stand out when the image is selected - Actual PPI and Effective PPI

               

              Actuall PPI refers to the amount of PPI (Pixels Per Inch) that are within the image when represented at 100% size.

               

              Effective PPI refers to the amount of PPI that are in the image when scaled. That is, if a n image is scaled up (made bigger) then naturally there are less pixels per inch. And when scaled down (made smaller) there are more pixels per inch.

               

              The higher the amount of pixels the better.

               

              For most printing people say that 300 ppi is necessary, but this is a myth which I'm not going to dispel right now.

               

               

              Basically you want the images to be in around the 300 PPI area.

               

               

              To view the actual image you can open the Link in photoshop or other image viewer.

               

               

              To view a higher resolution proxy of the image go to the View>Display Performance and choose High Quality

              • 4. Re: Spot inks not represented correctly problem
                Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                THere are two possible reasons for the preview to appear pixelated in ID, and neither has to do with spot colors.

                 

                The first is the Display Quality setting Eugene mentioned. The deafult is the "typical" low res proxy. The other possibility is the links are missing or modified, and until you corect that, by either findin ghte links or updating, you cannot fix the preview, nor can you print.

                • 5. Re: Spot inks not represented correctly problem
                  rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                  Are the images linked to the layout (they show up in the Links panel)? Are the images using the spot colors (they are in duotone mode or have a spot channel)? When you select the spot color in the swatches panel do you have the option to delete it—the trash can is not grayed out?

                  • 6. Re: Spot inks not represented correctly problem
                    rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                    " Spot inks 'PANTONE Process Cyan C' and 'PROCESS Process Black C' cannot be represented correctly within InDesign.  The inks will color separate correctly, but will appear gray on screen and in composite output."

                     

                    You'll get this message if you try to place an image (duotone, or spot channel) that uses any of the Pantone Solid colors with process or hexachrome in its name, i.e. PANTONE Hexachrome Orange C or PANTONE Process Cyan C.

                     

                    I'm guessing the original designer spec'd a duotone with PANTONE Process Cyan C and PANTONE Process Black C as the inks instead of Cyan and Black, which would have been better. Are the images duotones?

                    • 7. Re: Spot inks not represented correctly problem
                      CML326 Level 1

                      Thank you for all your replies...they are all very helpful and it is much appreciated.

                       

                      So, I tried to link the images as they are all broken links at the moment, and it is when I do this that message comes up.

                      Yes - I believe they are duotone images.  What does this mean in terms of getting them the right colour again?  If i ignore the image, the link is fixed, but then they are in grayscale basically.


                      Please excuse my ignorance on this - I really am out of my depth using this programme!

                      • 8. Re: Spot inks not represented correctly problem
                        Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                        Unless you are responsible for how the images appear in print, or if the destination of the document is on-screen viewing or low-res digital printing, this probably is not a real problem.

                         

                        Here's another thought, though. Can you open the Ink Manager from the Swatches panel flyout menu, then select the two spot colors and alias them to their process counterparts?

                        • 9. Re: Spot inks not represented correctly problem
                          CML326 Level 1

                          In answer to Rob,

                          "When you select the spot color in the swatches panel do you have the option to delete it—the trash can is not grayed out?"

                          I can't delete the swatch, the trash can is faded out, and when i hover over it, it has a red stop sign over it.

                          I also can't edit it on the swatch options, other than to change it from process to spot and back again - which appears to do nothing...

                          • 10. Re: Spot inks not represented correctly problem
                            Eugene Tyson Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                            Then it would appear that the images are duotone created in Photoshop.

                             

                            I'd leave them set as were.

                             

                            Do you have access to the images that were used in the brochure?

                             

                            You can use the Link panel to Relink all the images to the folder where the images are located. Check the flyout menu on the Links Panel (top right corner)

                            • 11. Re: Spot inks not represented correctly problem
                              CML326 Level 1

                              I have all the original files of the pictures, and so I can link them again easily enough.  However, if i open the picture on it's own, it doesn't appear to be in the same duotone colours as in InDesign, so I am worried that something has gone wrong somewhere, as when I link it up it turns the image in InDesign back to grayscale.  But maybe it will be ok when it is printed as the printers will be able to get the right colour plate for it?

                               

                              So as you say, maybe I should just leave it be and let the printers work it out??!

                              • 12. Re: Spot inks not represented correctly problem
                                rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                If you open all of the duotones and change their ink names to Cyan and Black (the names are case sensitive), you will then be able to trash the two spot colors and replace them with any process swatch. So the sequence would be this (backup your project first):

                                 

                                 

                                A duotone image spec'd with Pantone Process Black and Cyan

                                 

                                Screen shot 2012-07-18 at 11.01.00 AM.png

                                 

                                The duotone in Photoshop

                                 

                                Screen shot 2012-07-18 at 11.01.25 AM.png

                                 

                                Change the ink names to Cyan and Black and save

                                 

                                Screen shot 2012-07-18 at 11.01.46 AM.png

                                Update the links and you'll still get the message, but you can now trash the two spots

                                 

                                Screen shot 2012-07-18 at 11.02.32 AM.png

                                 

                                Replace the pantone cyan with a process cyan swatch

                                 

                                Screen shot 2012-07-18 at 11.03.38 AM.png

                                 

                                Replace pantone black with [Black]

                                 

                                Screen shot 2012-07-18 at 11.03.54 AM.png

                                 

                                Screen shot 2012-07-18 at 11.18.50 AM.png

                                You'll need to change every placed object using the two pantone colors, or the trash icon will remain grayed out:

                                • 13. Re: Spot inks not represented correctly problem
                                  CML326 Level 1

                                  Great, thank you.  I will try this and let you know.....!  could take a while as there about about 120 images...

                                  • 14. Re: Spot inks not represented correctly problem
                                    Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                                    Did you try the ink manager?

                                    • 15. Re: Spot inks not represented correctly problem
                                      CML326 Level 1

                                      yep - I did. (sorry, should have replied)

                                      But it's faded and I can't click on the alias part...

                                      • 16. Re: Spot inks not represented correctly problem
                                        Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                                        And the color was still defined in the swatches as spot?

                                         

                                        I'll have to make a duotone and test that...

                                        • 17. Re: Spot inks not represented correctly problem
                                          CML326 Level 1

                                          Yep - as far as I can see....however...it is possible I am doing it wrong!

                                           

                                          Also - flicking through a print out, some of the pictures have worked fine, and it is only a handful of them that are so pixilated, why would this be? All links are broken at the moment, so why would it be ok for some and not for the others?

                                           

                                          Please excuse all my questions, your patience with me is appreciated.

                                          • 18. Re: Spot inks not represented correctly problem
                                            Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                                            I just made a duytone using your color names, and it came into ID as spots (but without the warnings, so I'm not sure what the difference is). I had no trouble aliasing those spots to to the process equivalents.

                                             

                                            As far as printing, if the links are out-of-date rather than missing there's a reasonable chance the preview (which is what gets printed when the link is not current) is high quality,

                                            • 19. Re: Spot inks not represented correctly problem
                                              rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                              Peter, I tried aliasing my example and didn't think it would work because the preview didn't change, but with Separation Preview turned on it does, so with a lot of images it would be the way to go:

                                               

                                              Screen shot 2012-07-18 at 1.29.04 PM.png

                                               

                                              Screen shot 2012-07-18 at 1.29.12 PM.png

                                              • 20. Re: Spot inks not represented correctly problem
                                                rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                (but without the warnings, so I'm not sure what the difference is).

                                                Did you select the colors from the Pantone Solid Library or simply name colors—you need to do it like this to get the warning:

                                                 

                                                Screen shot 2012-07-18 at 1.36.12 PM.png

                                                • 21. Re: Spot inks not represented correctly problem
                                                  Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                                                  Tried it both ways...

                                                  • 22. Re: Spot inks not represented correctly problem
                                                    CML326 Level 1

                                                    Thank you all for your help in answering this - but I think it is beyond what I can do as I don't really know how to use and get around indesign or photoshop.  So I think I'll leave it until we get our new media guy here and let him play around with it, who will likely to a better job quicker than I will.

                                                     

                                                    Thank you.

                                                    • 23. Re: Spot inks not represented correctly problem
                                                      rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                      yep - I did. (sorry, should have replied)

                                                      But it's faded and I can't click on the alias part...

                                                       

                                                      The Ink aliasing solution will at least fix your preview problem when View>Overprint Preview is selected. You have to click and select the ink color before you can select an ink to alias:

                                                       

                                                      Screen shot 2012-07-19 at 8.02.51 AM.png

                                                       

                                                      When you click on the Pantone color Ink Alias will be available

                                                       

                                                      Screen shot 2012-07-19 at 8.03.40 AM.png

                                                      • 24. Re: Spot inks not represented correctly problem
                                                        GraeMagruder

                                                        I am a long-time Adobe and InDesign user and I sympathize with the newcomers.

                                                         

                                                        One of my long-time projects is a quarterly publication. The last issue was produced in CS5. This is the first time I’ve used Creative Cloud, and also the first time I’ve encountered “The spot ink “PANTONE Reflex Blue” cannot be represented correctly within InDesign.....”

                                                         

                                                        I believe the problem occurs when using a Pantone color selected from the “Color Libraries“ in the Duotone Options dialog box and changing the name from a name that the Pantone Color Libraries automatically generates. It didn’t matter to CS5. But now If you want to use a custom name, you need to use the “Picker” to choose the color via HSB, RGB, LAB, or CMYK and then you can name it whatever you want. Or, use the Pantone-generated name from “Picker” without alteration.

                                                         

                                                        I hope this helps someone.