8 Replies Latest reply on Jul 23, 2012 1:27 AM by Eugene Tyson

    rich black spot colour

    inquestflash Level 1

      hello indesigners.

       

      can a rich black become a spot colour if i choose from process to spot colour?

      and can a white or black become a spot colours or are those 2 colours considered just simple shades?

       

      thank you.

        • 1. Re: rich black spot colour
          Michael Gianino Level 4

          inquestflash wrote:

           

          can a rich black become a spot colour if i choose from process to spot colour?

          I'm not totally clear about that question, but then I'm probably not the best person to answer color questions. Yes, you can make a new color swatch and build it from the CMYK model as a rich black, and yes, you can make that either a process color or a spot color. As a process color, it will be present on the CMY and K plates to the extent that it has CMY and K (for example, a C25-M10-K100 rich black won't have any image on the Y plate). If it's a spot color, it will only be on the spot plate.

          inquestflash wrote:

           

          …and can a white or black become a spot colours or are those 2 colours considered just simple shades?

           

          thank you.

          If you designate a swatch as a spot color, it can appear black or white on the page, and will appear on the spot plate.

           

          Does that help, or did I miss your meaning?

          1 person found this helpful
          • 2. Re: rich black spot colour
            inquestflash Level 1

            Hello Micheal.

             

            ill try be more specific.i have used black cmyk for my text colour.and it is a process colour.becuase black and white is not considered colours.

            i was wandering if they can be converted into a spot colour by using the dialogue box.i have made a black spot colour with 95% k pallete.

            the rest are 0%.So is that considered a spot colour?

             

            u2a.jpg

            • 3. Re: rich black spot colour
              Eugene Tyson Adobe Community Professional & MVP

              All that will do is give the press guy an extra plate - which is a complete waste of time and money.

               

              In printing the colours are separated to CMYK plates, this is known as process printing.

               

              For colours that fall outside the CMYK gamut (colour range as only so many colours can be achieved by mixing these 4 inks) there are Spot colours, which produce an extra plate, so you'd end up with CMYK + 1 Spot plates.

               

              There is no need for choosing Spot here.

               

               

              If you're using a new black colour and changing that to a Spot - then you'l end up with 2 Black plates for printing - which is unnecessary.

               

              You don't even need to make a new Swatch - just choose 95% Black for the colour of things if that is what you want.

               

               

              If you don't understand this I suggest you talk to your printers and the press guy about the best way to setup your swatches for the print run.

               

               

              For the record - 95% Black is NOT rich black. Rich Black is a combination of a Cyan or Magenta or Yellow with 100% Black - e.g., 50% Cyan and 100% Black.

               

              And this does not need to be a Spot Colour - if you make it a Spot Colour then the press will have to mix an ink with 50% Cyan and 100% Black - produce an extra plate, run an extra plate - and all this costs money. Where it's completely unnecessary. As they are already using CMYK plates - so you can produce the Rich Black using the CMYK plates.

               

              Again, if you don't understand this then I highly suggest you talk to your printers, go visit them and get a clearer picture of how the prinitng process works.

              • 4. Re: rich black spot colour
                Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                @ inquestflash,

                 

                Do you understand what process and spot colors ARE and how they work on press (and how spot colors are useless for most digital output)?

                • 5. Re: rich black spot colour
                  inquestflash Level 1

                  Hello Peter

                   

                  Yes i know about the process of spot colours,i just needed to know if a black was able to be accepted on a seperate plate as a spot colour.

                  Simply because black isnt considered a colour rather than a shade,so because im working on an assignment from college to apply a spot colour

                  to our text,i chose the colour(shade) black.And wanted to be sure before showing my lecturer that black can be on a seperate plate.

                   

                  ps:im going with a rich black for my text,which will be a spot colour.

                  • 6. Re: rich black spot colour
                    rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                    im going with a rich black for my text,which will be a spot colour.

                     

                    "Rich Black" by definition is a process color—process black plus some combination of process CMY, i.e. 60|50|50|100. A CMYK black on press will produce a darker value black than black with no CMY.

                     

                    Any color swatch you create can be spec'd as Spot and will output as a separate plate, but there's not much point in running a second spot black in addition to the default [Black] unless it's for something like a text translation where a text change could be made by changing one plate. There would be no visual difference between process and spot black on press.

                    • 7. Re: rich black spot colour
                      Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                      Your answer makes me think you really don't understand process and spot colors.

                       

                      First black is most certainly a color, but more importantly it is, in fact, already always on its own plate, just as Cyan, Magenta and Yellow inkls also have their own plates when building a process color.

                       

                      Process inks (the regular CMYand K) are translucent and when mixed on the paper blend together to fool your eye into seeing thousands of other colors, but you cannot mix them together in a pot to make a single color to run on a separate plate. Spot color inks are opaque, and are a lot like paint. They get mixed from a set of basic color pigments and are laid down on a single plate. If you pick a page at random from a Pantone Formula Guide swatch book (the kind with 7 swatches on a page and the ink mix formula listed), you'll probably see that the center swatch is the baseline color, and the ones above it have white added, while the ones below have black added to the mix.

                       

                      As has already been mentioned, Rich Black, at least using the tradtional meaning of a mix of Black and some amounts of CM and Y, is not a spot color, and you would not typically use it for type. There ARE spot black inks, but you are much more likely to want to use a spot ink for gray type or for some other color like red or green, especailly if the color does not have a good process equivalent. Light colors, especially, will print crisper as spots than as simulations, too, because they will be laid down solid instead of as screened dots.

                       

                      There are cases where it makes sense to have TWO black plates. One of them is with documents that will be translated into multiple languages. In that case a second black plate can be defined as a spot color and all of the text will be assigned to that color. This allow the creation of 1 set of CMYK plates for the illustrative content, and the changing of the spot plate to change languages. This can reduce the setup time during language changeovers since the registration for text is not as critical in most cases and the CMYK plates will already have been registered on the first run. There is no advantage, though, to adding a fifth plate for black if there will not be a change in mid-run.

                      • 8. Re: rich black spot colour
                        Eugene Tyson Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                        ps:im going with a rich black for my text,which will be a spot colour.

                         

                        Using a rich black for text is a really bad idea. For type under 12pt there are real concerns of registration issues.

                         

                        I think you should talk to your lecturer about what you are trying to achieve and how to go about it, I don't think you fully grasp the issues. But hey we all had to learn some how.