14 Replies Latest reply on Jul 21, 2012 3:16 AM by Jon-M-Spear

    Real-time video capture

    Jon-M-Spear Level 4

      Can anyone point me in the right direction as to how to injest real-time 1080p feeds to a Win 7 laptop and to subsequently edit in PP CS6.

       

      On occasions, I sit backstage at live events/conferences and, through OnLocation, take a firewire feed from the Production Unit to capture the output.  I simultaneously monitor and annotate the material  - adding markers and comments - so that I can do an immediate edit and post to the web.

       

      The two limitations:

       

      1.  OnLocation/firewire appears not to handle full raster 1080p.

      2.. OnLocation is discontinued - although I could continue with CS5 (but not 1080p).

       

      I am posting this question here, rather than the OnLocation forum as I wonder whether there is a 3rd party hardware solution to this.  Maximum recordings are in the region of 60-90 minutes.

       

      Thanks.

        • 1. Re: Real-time video capture
          John T Smith Adobe Community Professional & MVP

          I thought OnLocation was replaced by http://forums.adobe.com/community/prelude

          • 2. Re: Real-time video capture
            Harm Millaard Level 7

            For real time ingest of HD material you will need - at least AFAIK - a HD-SDI camera and a BlackMagic or similar HD-SDI card. Since that is not possible on a laptop, due to lacking bandwidth on a laptop, I think it just is not possible.

            • 3. Re: Real-time video capture
              Jon-M-Spear Level 4

              Prelude is not a replacement for onLocation, John.  It is designed for logging, but not live capture.

               

              Harm, on many occasions the gig is a multi-camera rig from which I am fed the TX output from the vision mixer.  I have been succesfully capturing SD on a laptop since onLocation CS4 (or was it CS3?).

               

              My client is now wanting to up the ante and output @ 1080p.  The immediacy of the work means that I need to log and capture in real-time - making a paper edit on the fly. 

               

              My laptop is able to handle XDCAM bandwidth (about 35 MB/s).   Are you saying that I need an SDI interface to achieve this?

              • 4. Re: Real-time video capture
                Bill Gehrke Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                Since I was not familiar with the term "Vision Mixer" I found this in Wikipedia.

                 

                "The terms vision mixer and video mixer that describes both the equipment and the device operator are used outside the USA. In the United States, the equipment is called a video production switcher and the device operator is known as a technical director (TD) that is part of a television crew."

                 

                I then found this:

                 

                "Most vision mixers are targeted at the professional market, with newer analog models having component video connections and digital ones using Serial Digital Interface (SDI)."

                 

                SDI for 1080p;

                 

                "An emerging interface, commonly known in the industry as dual link HD-SDI and consisting essentially of a pair of SMPTE 292M links, is standardized in SMPTE 372M; this provides a nominal 2.970 Gbit/s interface used in applications (such as digital cinema or HDTV 1080P) that require greater fidelity and resolution than standard HDTV can provide. A more recent interface, 3G-SDI, consisting of a single 2.970 Gbit/s serial link, is standardized in SMPTE 424M that will replace the dual link HD-SDI."

                 

                First of all you better find out what signal you will be fed from your "Vision Mixer", as you can see without that specification and assuming that there is no compression codec inside the mixer you have a major bandwidth problem.  There is no way that firewire could handle 1080p without some form of compression.  You might get a third party HD-SDI to Firewire compressor but I do not know how that then would affect your workflow.  Also Firewire is on its way out

                • 5. Re: Real-time video capture
                  Harm Millaard Level 7

                  For HD-SDI you need at least 288 MB/s or even 1.44 GB/s bandwidth in 444 colorspace, that means that 35 MB/s is not nearly enough. Not only is HD-SDI lacking in a laptop, but the disk setup is far too slow to handle that data stream. That also raises the question whether the camera('s) you will be using have HD-SDI output?

                  • 6. Re: Real-time video capture
                    ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

                    Does your laptop have USB3 or an Express card slot? Does your camera have HDMI or SDI?

                     

                    Eric

                    ADK

                    • 7. Re: Real-time video capture
                      Jon-M-Spear Level 4

                      I have a Precision M6600 which has HDMI, USB3 and and express slot.

                       

                      The equipment varies from place to place, so I need to establish a general modus operandi. 

                       

                      When recording SD, the vision mixer (PPU) Output passes via a Sony DSR or similar which supplies the FireWire feed to the laptop.

                       

                      I am able to request any interface between the PPU and Precision to compress the signal. I just don't know what to ask for, or what the connection would be, or what application would allow me to do a paper edit on the fly.

                       

                      Would something like a Ki-pro in line, or a Blackmagic box help in any way?

                      • 8. Re: Real-time video capture
                        ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

                        The Blackmagic Intensity Shuttle would be fine for the I/O device if you can go HDMI from the Mixer or via a converter in between. However keep in mind Component will only carry Interlaced. You don't want to convert component unless the converter also De-interlaces. If HDMI is not an option then you will need SDI and a different Blackmagic device. Since you are delivering to Web you may want to consider the Matrox MXO2 series instead of the Blackmagic since you have the express card slot. Which ever one you decide on, you can use their utility to capture the material into the Blackmagic or Matrox codecs and then import it into any editor to quickly cut and upload. You may also want to look at Wirecast Pro by Telestream. They have capture options and work with the Blackmagic hardware. Wirecast Pro will also allow you to broadcast live via Web and gives you some further mix/key options.

                         

                        Eric

                        ADK

                        • 9. Re: Real-time video capture
                          Martin Douglas Level 2

                          Or look at recording to a separate recorder and then edit directly from those drives

                          eg.

                          Aja Kipro or

                          Blackmagic Hyperdeck

                           

                          Martin

                          • 10. Re: Real-time video capture
                            Jon-M-Spear Level 4

                            The data is always output from the PPU to independent drives as backup as a matter of course, although this aspect is not part of my domain. However I could ask for access to the drives. 

                             

                            The Blackmagic Hyperdeck becomes very expensive when you factor in that I would have to record two-day conferences to SSD before I would be able to re-record over the drives.

                             

                            My equal issue is with the logging and editing on the fly.  In the bad old days of Beta SP, I would sit backstage with a production monitor displaying time code.  I would make notes and return to the edit suite with my notes and a box of SP tapes and start the edit.  it was extremely long-winded.

                             

                            OnLocation introduced a smooth integrated logging and markering process. I'd hate to have to return to the bad old pre-OnLocation days!

                             

                            Eric, are you saying that an MMO2 or Blackmagic (with Wirecast Pro) between the PPU and laptop would provide integrated logging as well as data capture?  I'm a bit out of my depth when it comes to this aspect of production.  Would any other piece of kit need to part of the workflow between the PPU output and the MMO2?

                            • 11. Re: Real-time video capture
                              ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

                              The Blackmagic utility will allow basic logging. Wirecast Pro will allow naming but I dont remember the Metadata options. You can obviously adjust the metadata further if you import the files into Premiere or Onlocation/Prelude. I am not sure what you are asking with the MXO2 question. Could you clarify?

                               

                              Eric

                              ADK

                              • 12. Re: Real-time video capture
                                Jon-M-Spear Level 4

                                To recap, when recording conferences, a multi-camera rig is controlled by the PPU, from which I am given the TX feed.   In SD, the only interface between the PPU and my M6600 laptop (running OnLocation) has been a Sony DSR recorder, or equivalent.  The DSR is placed in record and I take the firewire feed out to the M6600.  Nothing else is needed

                                 

                                So, bassically, my MMO2 question is...

                                 

                                Is the MXO2, or Blackmagic equivalent, the only interface I would need between the PPU and the M6600 in order to compress the 1080p signal to a suitable bandwidth and make it recordable by the M6600, and does its software enable real-time monitoring and logging?

                                 

                                Thanks

                                Jon

                                • 13. Re: Real-time video capture
                                  ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

                                  You need to bring HDMI into the Blackmagic Intensity Shuttle or MXO2 Mini from your source. As long as the PPU has HDMI out then you are fine. If not then see if you have SDI out of the Mixer which will require more expensive versions of the Blackmagic or MXO2.

                                   

                                  Eric

                                  ADK

                                  • 14. Re: Real-time video capture
                                    Jon-M-Spear Level 4

                                    Many thanks for your help on this.

                                     

                                    Jon.