25 Replies Latest reply on Jul 21, 2012 6:26 AM by station_two

    Printing effects techniques

    jorgebraque

      Hello all,

       

      Let's say you got a picture and you start editing it:

      • Desaturate
      • Add some noise
      • Add some random dust
      • Add some vintage colors

      So you end up with a picture (let's say 1000x800px, 72dpi) that looks fine on your screen with 100% zoom. But you don't want to use this picture for a blog or something, you just want to print it. If you print it with 300dpi then most of the effects (noise, dust...) won't show on paper because the picture is printed around 25% of what you see on the screen.

       

      Question:

      Is there a technique so you can control whatever effects you add to your picture when the picture is going to be printed? I could resize the 72dpi picture after all effects applied around 400% and then print it but is resizing the best solution?

       

      Thanks!

        • 1. Re: Printing effects techniques
          conroy Level 5

          Why not create the artwork so it measures correctly at the highest required pixel density?

           

          For example, create at 4167 x 3333 px @ 300 ppi for print. Downsample it to 1000 x 800 px @ 72 ppi for screen.

          • 2. Re: Printing effects techniques
            jorgebraque Level 1

            You want to print. You can't downsample the image...

            Ok let's say you got a 4167x3333px stock photo. You add some noise. How can you control the printed result as it will be around 25% as i said?

            • 3. Re: Printing effects techniques
              conroy Level 5

              You want to print. You can't downsample the image...

               

              Of course, I did not say you should downsample for print.

               

              I said create at highest density for print. Downsample for screen.

              • 4. Re: Printing effects techniques
                jorgebraque Level 1

                To monitor the result? A little painful... What if you just change the zoom level to 25%?

                • 5. Re: Printing effects techniques
                  conroy Level 5

                  No, not to monitor the result. I meant in general you should create artwork for print with the required number of pixels for print, then if you want a version for screen use (like the Web, although you don't want that in this instance), downsample to 72 ppi. That's in preferance to your initial talk of upsampling from 72 ppi to 300 ppi for print.

                  • 6. Re: Printing effects techniques
                    jorgebraque Level 1

                    No the upsampling i said was a technique to have control of the final print result! How can you create a print result like this having full control of what will get printed?

                    m.png

                    • 7. Re: Printing effects techniques
                      conroy Level 5

                      There's a communication breakdown between us. I think I've misunderstood your requirements from the beginning so I'll quit before becoming more confused. Good luck.

                      • 8. Re: Printing effects techniques
                        Trevor.Dennis Adobe Community Professional

                        The OP appears to have no idea of how image size, PPI and printing work.  So I wish you luck conroy2009

                        • 9. Re: Printing effects techniques
                          conroy Level 5

                          Trevor.Dennis wrote:

                           

                          The OP appears to have no idea of how image size, PPI and printing work.  So I wish you luck conroy2009

                           

                          I've quit to preserve my remaining sanity, thanks.

                          • 10. Re: Printing effects techniques
                            jorgebraque Level 1

                            Ok tell me what am i asking that is wrong. Also i know about printing. I just ask for a specific technique for printings like the image i posted.

                            • 11. Re: Printing effects techniques
                              Brett N Adobe Employee

                              You have to remember that the printed medium is more blurred that what you will see on screen. You'll have to sharpen the image to make any noise appear in the print.

                              • 12. Re: Printing effects techniques
                                jorgebraque Level 1

                                Yep i know what you mean. At least you understand what i'm talking about. Otherwise you could be just ironic.

                                @Trevor: Usually i refer to dpi meaning ppi (big mistake).

                                • 13. Re: Printing effects techniques
                                  Level 5

                                  This extensive site has a very lucid explanation of PPI, DPI, Image printing Size, and Image pixel Dimensions:

                                   

                                  http://www.scantips.com/basics01.html

                                  1 person found this helpful
                                  • 14. Re: Printing effects techniques
                                    jorgebraque Level 1

                                    Thanks station_two but again this is not what i'm talking about. The title has two keywords: "effects" and "printing". All i'm trying to say is that some effects (eg. "noise",...) won't be visible when an image is printed. So i'm asking for techniques "controling" the final (printed) result. One technique as i mentioned is working with lower resolution, then upsampling, then printing. Any other ideas?

                                    • 15. Re: Printing effects techniques
                                      Level 5

                                      I directed you to that site because it became clear to me in reading your post that you are confused.

                                       

                                      Now I see you are even more confused in other areas: noise is not an "effect", it's a filter you can apply to an image.

                                       

                                       

                                      jorgebraque wrote:

                                       

                                      …One technique as i mentioned is working with lower resolution, then upsampling, then printing…

                                       

                                       

                                      That simply boggles the mind because of its absurdity. 

                                       

                                       

                                      jorgebraque wrote:

                                       

                                      …a picture (let's say 1000x800px, 72dpi)…

                                       

                                      That "picture" would not be worth printing at any size beyond that of a small card, say 3.3 x 2.7 inches, no matter what "technique" you plan to apply.  Period.

                                       

                                      You are approaching this from the wrong end.  What you do first is determine what size the final print is going to be, then go create or obtain an image with enough resolution that will allow you to achieve your goal.

                                       

                                      Later you can grapple with fine tuning it by applying first capture sharpening, then output sharpening after adjusting it with an appropriate adjustment curve when you soft-proof it in Photoshop.

                                       

                                      As an example, the image of Marilyn Monroe you embedded in your post is way too small and too blurry to be printed even at minuscule 2" by 1.75" on a decent quality Epson inkjet printer like the Stylus Photo 2200 or better, or in a continuous tone printer like a Fuji. 

                                      It might begin to look acceptable at this size:  ====>>Picture 22.png  

                                       

                                      No one can force you to learn if you don't want to.  I gave you a link to a site that will give you a decent start.  That's all I can do.

                                      • 16. Re: Printing effects techniques
                                        jorgebraque Level 1

                                        Well that is what exactly i want for the printed result. That blur, that texture, that noise. Can you make the same printed results with an image 30x30cm, 300ppi, 3534x3534px? Can you try?

                                        Noise is a filter. Yes i agree. A noise filter gives a noisy effect on an image.

                                        • 17. Re: Printing effects techniques
                                          Level 5

                                          He!!, no!  I'm not about to try anything for you.  I'm done here. 

                                           

                                          Besides, I have no clue as to what you mean by "Well that is what exactly i want for the printed result."

                                          • 18. Re: Printing effects techniques
                                            Level 5

                                            Sorry to be abrupt, but these are user to user forums.  No one has any obligation even to reply to a question, let alone to run errands for other forum users.

                                            • 19. Re: Printing effects techniques
                                              jorgebraque Level 1

                                              Thanks. I don't want you to try anything. That was a rhetorical question cause i know you can't do it. I can't do it. Why? I can't control it. Never mind. Few people will understand what i'm talking about, but thanks.

                                              • 20. Re: Printing effects techniques
                                                Noel Carboni Level 8

                                                jorgebraque wrote:

                                                 

                                                So you end up with a picture (let's say 1000x800px, 72dpi) that looks fine on your screen with 100% zoom. But you don't want to use this picture for a blog or something, you just want to print it. If you print it with 300dpi

                                                 

                                                You have a fundamental assumption wrong, probably by listening to too many online "rules of thumb"...  Why do you want to "print it with 300dpi"?  What do you feel that will accomplish?

                                                 

                                                If it has the right size and look on your screen, determine what ppi your screen is (get a ruler out), set your image to that ppi without resampling, and just print it.  There's nothing magic about 300.

                                                 

                                                If you want it to look more detailed on the printer than on your screen, which is most folks' goal, you're going to have to work with more pixels and prep your image to look good at print size on the screen, which means using something other than 100% zoom (e.g., 33%).

                                                 

                                                The best way is to think about the pixel count, set the size in inches or whatever units  you use in your country, and let the the ppi fall where it may.  If you want the most detailed possible print, use the most pixels.  If you want a low resolution print that looks just like what you see on the display, use a low pixel count.  That's not evil, just not typical.

                                                 

                                                -Noel

                                                • 21. Re: Printing effects techniques
                                                  jorgebraque Level 1

                                                  Yes you are right. I thought of that. Well i said 300ppi as it prints so small pixels that get unnoticed by eyes. Printing over 125ppi gives pixels smaller than 0.2mm. That is adequate for eyes.

                                                  About the zoom level you are also right. I mentioned that before. If photoshop could render "precise" at every random zoom level that could work.

                                                  Printing at lower resolutions (eg. 120, 130, 140...) gives you more control of what you see on the screen and what gets printed.

                                                  • 22. Re: Printing effects techniques
                                                    Level 5

                                                    jorgebraque wrote:

                                                     

                                                    Yes you are right. I thought of that. Well i said 300ppi as it prints so small pixels that get unnoticed by eyes. Printing over 125ppi gives pixels smaller than 0.2mm. That is adequate for eyes.

                                                    About the zoom level you are also right. I mentioned that before. If photoshop could render "precise" at every random zoom level that could work.

                                                    Printing at lower resolutions (eg. 120, 130, 140...) gives your more control of what you see on the screen and what gets printed.

                                                     

                                                     

                                                     

                                                    Now you're confusing ppi with dpi, and pixels with printer dots.  (And there's no way to make any sense out of that last sentence in your post.)

                                                     

                                                    When I send a 360ppi image to my Epson printer, the printer does not use just 360 dots per inch, but either 1440 dpi or 2880 dpi.  The image has 360 pixels per inch, not the printer.

                                                     

                                                    You would REALLY benefit from reading that web page, carefully and in its entirety.

                                                    • 23. Re: Printing effects techniques
                                                      jorgebraque Level 1

                                                      I have the link. Can you stop posting cause you don't understand what i'm talking about...?

                                                      • 24. Re: Printing effects techniques
                                                        Noel Carboni Level 8

                                                        jorgebraque wrote:

                                                         

                                                        Yes you are right. I thought of that. Well i said 300ppi as it prints so small pixels that get unnoticed by eyes. Printing over 125ppi gives pixels smaller than 0.2mm. That is adequate for eyes.

                                                         

                                                        Adequate, perhaps, in some opinions, but in others certainly not optimal.  I can easily see differences in printed images at differing resolutions up to about 600 ppi.  If the most detailed possible prints are what you want to make (and it's usually what I want), you need that high pixel count and to overkill the resolution.

                                                         

                                                        It doesn't mean you HAVE to upsample an image.  If a less detailed, somewhat fuzzy print is what you want, just print it.  Modern printer drivers generally do a good job with whatever you feed them.  Whether you feel a print is acceptable to you at 125 ppi is of course entirely up to you.

                                                         

                                                        A tacit assumption is sometimes made that the photograph is sufficiently well-captured to print at high resolution.  Sometimes they're not!  I used to print 8 x 10 images from my 1024 x 768 digital camera back in 1997.  You do what you can with what you've got.

                                                         

                                                        -Noel

                                                        • 25. Re: Printing effects techniques
                                                          Level 5

                                                          jorgebraque wrote:

                                                           

                                                          …Can you stop posting cause you don't understand what i'm talking about...?

                                                           

                                                          No, it just doesn't work that way, Jorgito.  You don't get to tell others when or what to post in these user to user forums.

                                                           

                                                          You're wrong, I do understand what you are talking about, the problem is that you do not know what you're talking about.