7 Replies Latest reply on Jul 22, 2012 12:53 AM by Liam Dilley

    Is Muse a front end for BC, or BC a back-end for MU?


      Having watched the excellent Adobe TV video “Muse as a CMS with Business Catalyst”. I now understand how the two work together, but I/m still not sure which way to approach them to build, host and fulfil a new online business from scratch.


      I want to build an online advertising directory, with a web database of ads/listings. Business Catalyst looks terrific, because of its Web Apps which would allow me to connect to a database, (plus email, analytics, CRM, etc.)  But now I have found out about Muse, which looks like a great visual editor for a non-coding, print designer like me.


      I know I need to use both programs, but there seems to be some feature overlap, especially with Pages and Page templates. I don’t know whether I should start by laying out the site in BC (because of web apps, and listings being editable by users)—or to plan and create in Muse, and then get beautiful designed, styled listings into BC template pages (but then the listings won’t user-editable.)

        • 1. Re: Is Muse a front end for BC, or BC a back-end for MU?
          Liam Dilley Adobe Community Professional & MVP

          Hey there
          Muse does not have all the features to utlise everyting Business Catalyst is capable of.

          Muse is not the only software to interact with BC in terms of building a website, You have course got Dreamweaver and features that work with BC but you can also develop in any coding software such as Coda 2 for mac, sublime 2 and so on.

          I will be to the point on this so I do not blabbery on so please do not take any of my words to heart personally, not intended...


          Web Design is very different from Print design, a lot to learn and there is a lot of aspects of web design, UI design, considerations of multiple display devices, multiple operating systems, browsers, the development to build sites, understanding the web, the CMS your using to the actual desgin elements such as UX design.


          It is great to step into this world from print/graphic design but you need to go into it not expecting to be a genius at it. Muse is a tool to help people like yourself get into this and produce website using it. Websites built with Muse in BC wont be the best sites BC can produce. You need a lot of understanding of javascript, frameworks like jQuery and of course all the elements of BC from Modules and Tags to the layouts and all the niggles and workarounds etc.

          To truely get to that level you need to get your hands dirty, know code etc.

          A good web design job will require you to know how to design in say Photoshop or Fireworks and then convert that into modern HTML (HTM5), Know your CSS and know your javascript at the very least.


          You do not need to Use Muse is the point and Muse is a stop gap tool to get you something but it wont be the best that BC or a website design can be.


          So it is down to you and how far you want to go, if it is a one off project and you want to get something as you want to achieve you can get something. If your looking to go into web design, use it as a learning tool for yourself but explore the true web design approaches though, avoid developing bad habbits etc

          You should live and breave phrases like Web Standards for example


          So in terms of Muse and BC - As I first started with - its a tool that works with BC, not fully but it interacts with BC. It is not the front end nor it is the back end of BC.
          Are you sure the Video was Muse as a CMS? BC is the CMS, Muse is a tool.

          • 2. Re: Is Muse a front end for BC, or BC a back-end for MU?
            sfguido Level 1

            Thank you for the advice and suggestions. Meanwhile,I found this video of a developer session for early Muse and BC, showing data coming in via BC for the "Monkeybar" site Adobe built as one of the online tutorials for Muse. The Muse site has a blog, ad rotators, and various sign-up forms, plus a calendar. These are all BC modules that were inserted into Muse from BC and then automatically styled in Muse. This suggests that a BC web app of listings can be inserted and styled in a Muse-based site


            http://tv.adobe.com/watch/max-2011-design/advanced-integration-techniques-for-muse-codenam e/

            • 3. Re: Is Muse a front end for BC, or BC a back-end for MU?
              Liam Dilley Adobe Community Professional & MVP

              Kind of, little, not everything.

              Trust me, Using BC for long time and I think and hope I know it very very well. Heck I got BC guys saying I cant do things then show them a bit later it working.

              Muse does things but not everything, if you want to really go to town on sites with BC you need to know it well and get your hands dirty.

              Top developers on BC use API as well to build more functionality. You need a lot of jQuery to really make a BC site sing too.

              • 4. Re: Is Muse a front end for BC, or BC a back-end for MU?
                sfguido Level 1

                My problem is that I want to believe the marketing that implies that someone like me can build a complicated, interactive website in five minutes, with no code, or previous experience. However, Adobe’s Monkeybar sample website does have an impressive amount of features for a website built in Muse…and the tutorial makes it look easy.


                • 5. Re: Is Muse a front end for BC, or BC a back-end for MU?
                  Liam Dilley Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                  Not bad but horrible code and it's quite basic really.


                  http://ecommerce-template-2.fueldesign.co.nz/ manually done in BC, this is just a framework to have sites on.

                  Laidlaw.ac.nz : lots going on here, web standards, secure staff area, dynamic staff filtering, eCommerce... Lots of web apps


                  http://www.younggrasshopper.com/ audio samples, podcasts, questions to pay for....


                  Just quick ones as well.

                  You can build nice basic sites that look all right but not nice code and not much more.

                  Responsive web design, css3, if I said to you Ajax and jQuery, if I mentioned Liquid Markup to you, Limited BC layouts and workarounds for those, Email client comparable newsletters, HTML5...


                  Hoenstly will. It learn anything through MUSE. Use it to learn and get into things but don't expect it to build the best websites. It lacks certain features and teachers nothing about the web done properly. True web designers hate it with a passion :)

                  • 6. Re: Is Muse a front end for BC, or BC a back-end for MU?
                    sfguido Level 1

                    Last question for now:  I have read that the Muse code is bloated, therefore search engine unfriendly...while a BC-developed site generates much cleaner code, and will rank higher than a site built in Muse. I need to recreate a long-existing site whose product pages are already ranking well. I don't want to lose any SEO juice. What do you think?

                    • 7. Re: Is Muse a front end for BC, or BC a back-end for MU?
                      Liam Dilley Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                      That is correct, yes. You wont be able to create a eCommerce site properly in Muse without coding, does not have the features.

                      You wont have a well optimised, fast loading and SEO friendly site built in Muse.