18 Replies Latest reply on Jul 22, 2014 6:03 AM by ilykdp2

    Dragging Video/Audio tracks shifts sync

    AllThingsWestCoast

      Screen Captures.jpg

      I'm on CS6 and having serious issue impeding our workflow.

       

      Video 1/Audio 1:

      EOS 60D DSLR

       

      Audio 2/Audio 3:

      Zoom H1 audio tracks

       

      All of the audio is 48000 Hz/16 bit as is the sequence.

       

      The problem:

       

      When I click all 4 tracks (1 video + 3 audio) and drag to new location the audio sync is shifted. In other words the original position of the tracks is not maintained. Same result with cut & paste.

       

      Nothing prevents sync from being lost, even if I use link or group.

       

      Oddly, when I use UNDO, the tracks are put back in original position also out of sync.

       

      On CS 5.5 is doesn't seem to be any issue. It also works fine on Final Cut X

       

      This is really costing us time, and we can't seem to find a solution.

       

      Help appreciated!

       

      Reference:

       

      TOP PHOTO shows top everything in perfect sync. Bottom is after clicking the four tracks and dragging to the right a few seconds. Everything out of sync!)

       

      BOTTOM PHOTO shows sequence settings

       

      Fullscreen capture 7312012 125222 PM.jpg

        • 1. Re: Dragging Video/Audio tracks shifts sync
          SAFEHARBOR11 Most Valuable Participant

          Sequences normally show timing based on the frame rate of the video, for instance 30 frames = 30 tick marks and that is as close and you can get when lining up audio tracks, 1/30th of a second increments - limited precision. If you hit the drop down menu at top right corner of Sequence window, you can change from frames by checking "Show Audio Time Units". You can then edit at the precision of the audio rate, such as 1/48000.

           

          Perhaps if you did this to sync your clips, and are then copy/pasting them to a New sequence which is NOT set to Show Audio Time Units, then it reverts to frames resolution and the clips are jumping to nearest frame? Just a guess

           

          Jeff Pulera

          Safe Harbor Computers

          • 2. Re: Dragging Video/Audio tracks shifts sync
            AllThingsWestCoast Level 1

            Jeff, thanks. Yes, exactly- I use the waveforms ("Show Audio Time Units") to line up and sync audio manually. Works well.

             

            But when I shift (click and drag) the tracks on the SAME sequence (so I assume there shouldn't be an issue wrt sequence settings), the tracks mysteriously shift.  It seems to be a bug. All I want Premiere to do is place them in new position exactly same way.

             

             

            Clint

            • 3. Re: Dragging Video/Audio tracks shifts sync
              SAFEHARBOR11 Most Valuable Participant

              Hi Clint,

               

              Reproducing that behavior here, I see what you mean! I don't have the right set of clips (same audio from multiple sources) to test this at the moment, but try this. Get the audio clips shifted so the waveforms match, using Show Audio Time Units. Then switch back to frames view. Now use Shift + Razor at ends of clips (beginning and end) and trim off a few seconds. Revert to "Show Audio Time Units" and zoom in. Are ends of video and audio clips all flush? Meaning the audio clips are now "cut" at the FRAME marks on Sequence, as they must be if ends are even with video clips.

               

              If so, copy and paste and check alignment of waveforms once more. Wondering if having the staggered clip ends, where audio is off a partial frame, causes Premiere to shift them to nearest frame when pasting? Maybe if ends are all "even" before copy/paste they will behave better?

               

              If doing the above doesn't work, then I'd call it a bug! Just thought of a workaround. Position audio so it matches up, then Export Audio to create a new audio clip. Replace audio clip on timeline with the new clip, which was rendered out at the frame level and will therefore "snap to" and match video clip always! So match up and render/replace audio at start of edit, before cutting anything up.

               

              Jeff Pulera

              Safe Harbor Computers

              • 4. Re: Dragging Video/Audio tracks shifts sync
                AllThingsWestCoast Level 1

                Jeff, thanks for the suggestions. Unfortunately I tried all those (and more) and no luck!  Export workaround works, but will slow us down. For now our best option is to rollback to CS 5.5 where cut/paste and shifting leaves tracks exactly as is (as it should!). Thanks again for the help & suggestions!

                 

                Attached another photo hopefully adding more detail for any ADBE product managers out there who can take a look...

                 

                best,

                Clint

                sync-error.png

                • 5. Re: Dragging Video/Audio tracks shifts sync
                  shooternz Level 6

                  This was touched on ..but why is your sequence in audio units?

                  • 6. Re: Dragging Video/Audio tracks shifts sync
                    AllThingsWestCoast Level 1

                    It's so I can get fine enough resolution/detail to sync up audio tracks. Regardless of whether the timeline is in time units or not, unfortunately the track shift issue in screen shot above persists. Very frustrating (especially when it works fine on CS 5.5 and FCX)!

                    • 7. Re: Dragging Video/Audio tracks shifts sync
                      shooternz Level 6

                      Is  the shift only in Audio 3?

                       

                      How much is the shift ? in frames and audio units.

                      • 8. Re: Dragging Video/Audio tracks shifts sync
                        Steven L. Gotz Level 5

                        I duplicated this as well.

                         

                        Do this shooternz (and others):

                         

                        Take a video clip and a couple of audio clips and put them on the timeline. Don't be picky, you are not going to either watch or listen. If you selected audio and video from the same clip, make sure to unlink them.

                         

                        Line them all up at the beginning of the timeline.

                        Zoom all of the way in at the beginning of the timeline

                        Change the view to Audio units

                        Select the audio on track one and using your numeric keyboard, type the + sign and 1000

                        Select the second track's audi and type +2000

                        They should all be starting at a different point in time

                        Uncheck audio units to go back to frames.

                        Select all tracks and drag one frame.

                        Zoom back in using Audio units

                        See a problem?

                         

                        By the way, this research has crashed my Premiere Pro twice now.

                         

                        Basically, the audio must be trimmed to begin at the start of a frame. Or it will shift to accomplish that goal without your wanting it to.

                         

                        The main problem I see is that my second frame starts at 1601 audio units, the second at 3203 and the third at 4804. I guess it is OK. Just jump at 1600 units and multiples of 1600.  I figure that 48000 divided by 30 is a nice simple 1600 - but 29.97 causes a problem. It comes out to 1601.6 - so if you are really going to do this right, use 1601.6 as your number. If you are a complete lunatic or the clip is very long, use 1601.601601601602

                         

                        -- Steven

                        • 9. Re: Dragging Video/Audio tracks shifts sync
                          AllThingsWestCoast Level 1

                          I'm still having this issue, just as others above have confirmed.

                           

                          Dragging clips that are synced (dual-system audio) results in shifting of tracks. Even CTRL-Z (undo) can't restore properly aligned tracks!

                           

                          Tried on fresh CS6 PP install on another computer. Same problem.

                           

                          Note: this works fine on CS 5.5 and FCPX.

                           

                          This is killing our business.

                           

                          Anyone from Adobe?????!!!! Hello??????!!!

                          • 10. Re: Dragging Video/Audio tracks shifts sync
                            wwchem32

                            @Allthingswestcoast

                             

                            Any progress on this issue - just replicated the same thing. Hoping somebody has figured this out in the last few months!

                            • 11. Re: Dragging Video/Audio tracks shifts sync
                              shooternz Level 6

                              What happens if you Link all the relevant clips before you shift them?

                              • 12. Re: Dragging Video/Audio tracks shifts sync
                                wwchem32 Level 1

                                @shotternz

                                 

                                Doesn't help the above described issue. I did find a workaround though - saw it on another thread. Making sure the front end of the clip is snapped to frame, I then go into audio units and use the slip tool to align the audio more accurately. At that point, I create a subclip of the audio and redrag back in over the top of the original. This seems to remedy the original issue, but it sure is a few extra steps. If anyone has a better suggestion, I'm absolutely all ears.

                                • 13. Re: Dragging Video/Audio tracks shifts sync
                                  Steven L. Gotz Level 5

                                  I could have sworn I said to start the audio at the beginning of a frame to solve the problem. Snapped to frame, or starting at the beginning of a frame. Same thing for this issue.

                                  • 14. Re: Dragging Video/Audio tracks shifts sync
                                    wwchem32 Level 1

                                    @Gotz

                                    You did of course say to start the audio at the beginning of the frame. In my workflow, I did just that. Audio was snapped to frame before making any other adjustments. It was then that I went to audio units, made adjustments using the slip tool, and lined up my lav's and boom to the camera reference audio. I then switched back to frame and continued to edit. Using the track select tool and ripple edit tool with snap turned on in frame mode, I noted that after moving the audio files on the sequence to another location, the two audio tracks had moved in time. The beginnings of the audio files were visually still snapped to frame. I replicated this a number of times, but couldn't come up with a workaround until I created a subclip.

                                     

                                    I wasn't trying to question anything you said and I certainly could be missing something within my troubleshooting or problem solving process. Like I said, I'm totally open  to whatever I've missed here!:)

                                    • 15. Re: Dragging Video/Audio tracks shifts sync
                                      Steven L. Gotz Level 5

                                      Hmmm. Maybe I am missing something.

                                       

                                      Let me get this straight. You edited in audio units and verified that the clips started at the beginning of a frame. Then when you moved the clips, they slipped in time? To where? If they started at the beginning of a frame, where are they after you move them?

                                       

                                      I understand the problem if you don't start at the beginning of a frame, but not if you do.

                                       

                                      Perhaps you can take a bunch of screen shots and show us exactly what is happening?

                                      • 16. Re: Dragging Video/Audio tracks shifts sync
                                        Tertiary Green

                                        Hey Stephen,

                                         

                                        What happens is that the audio unit slips right back to where it was prior to being adjusted in audio units. Like the adjustment was never made.

                                         

                                        For me the problems occurs when syncing boom to lav mic where there were a few metres or more separating the microphones, and, as the time it takes the sound waves to reach the two mics is slightly different, it needs a very minor correction in audio units to eliminate the subtle but definitely noticable echo. However every time the corrected clips are cut and pasted, alt+click duplicated or simply dragged and dropped anywhere in the timeline, the audio tracks revert back to the timing prior to correction, exactly as AllThingsWestCoast details.

                                         

                                        This problem is really silly and still hasn't been resolved!! Adobe? Anyone out there?

                                        • 17. Re: Dragging Video/Audio tracks shifts sync
                                          Steven L. Gotz Level 5

                                          Hmm. I don't know what to tell you.

                                           

                                          Once you shift the audio, are you trimming the beginning of the clip to coincide with the beginning of a frame? In other words, if a frame is 1600 audio units and you shift it 100 units, you need to trim off another 1500 units so that the beginning of a clip lines up at the beginning of a frame - exactly. Or it will shift on you.

                                           

                                          It is a bug, yes. But has not been fixed as far as I know.

                                           

                                          This is a user to user forum. To sumbit a bug report for Adobe to work on, go to

                                           

                                          https://www.adobe.com/cfusion/mmform/index.cfm?name=wishform

                                          • 18. Re: Dragging Video/Audio tracks shifts sync
                                            ilykdp2

                                            Thank you for the subclip workaround, it was a fairly simple task and got the sync to stay put!