20 Replies Latest reply on Aug 15, 2012 8:41 AM by VHC-CO-IT

    Mac or PC?

    scottzock

      I am going to be editing 1080p video from my Canon Rebel T2i using premiere pro and after effects. Which direction do I go? PC or Mac? And why?

        • 1. Re: Mac or PC?
          Harm Millaard Level 7

          MAC's are like hookers, they look sexy and are expensive. After you have spent your money, you will wonder if it was worth it.

           

          I can't think of more than two advantages of MAC's and that is the build quality and it runs, once connected to a wall outlet. It is great. For the rest I can think of a lot of cons in comparison to PC:

           

          • High price
          • No BluRay support
          • No eSATA support
          • More problems with Premiere Pro
          • Outdated technology
          • Very limited choice of components
          • Very limited and costly expansion options (Thunderbolt)
          • Limited support on this forum
          • Slower than equally equipped PC
          • Limited choice of auxiliary programs

           

          What speaks for the PC in comparison to MAC?

           

          • Better value for money, better bang-for-the-buck
          • BR and eSATA support
          • Less problems with Premiere Pro
          • Latest technology
          • Vast choice of components at lower prices
          • Vast choice of expansion options at better prices
          • Extensive support on all fora. (more than 90% of computers are PC)
          • Significantly faster than an equally equipped MAC
          • Vast choice of auxiliary programs

           

          I hope some of the recent converts from MAC to PC (like Lasvideo) can give their hands on comparison views as well.

          • 2. Re: Mac or PC?
            Mansoor Mughal

            I will completely support Harm on this, as I am stuck with mac pro since i have invested so much i will take some time to shift video editing back to PC, but for now i am good with a macpro 4.1, quadro 4000 and 24gb ram, which serves the purpose for DSLR Video editing

             

            But if you are going for a new machine  NO MAC At all, mac has become more consumer based machine, you can look into new HP Z1 workstation comes with pretty decent specs and 100% better than stupid iMac

            • 3. Re: Mac or PC?
              Jim_Simon Level 8

              PC or Mac? And why?

               

              PC, just because Macs suck.

               

              Seriously though, over 90% of the planet's computers are Windows-based.  Macs do things differently, not better mind you, just different.  And those differences often cause compatibility issues.  QuickTime instead of AVI for video.  AIFF instead of WAV for audio.  HFS+ instead of NTFS for file systems.  DisplayPort instead of VGA or DVI for monitors.  Etc, etc.

               

              So anyone using a Mac is actually creating problems, not solving them.

               

              As a bonus for using a highly compatible Windows system, you also get better performance for less money.  A further benefit is that Windows 7 actually seems more stable than Mac OSX.  So you just win on every front when you choose Windows.

              • 4. Re: Mac or PC?
                Ankush DigiVid

                It all depends upon the Kind of editing you wish to do and the budget you have for the same.

                 

                As per the work you have mentioned here and if you have already not purchased a MAC, then I would recommend to go in for the Windows Workstation. Though you dont need super powerfull processor or a video card here, however this is more suitable for future expandability as well.

                 

                As mentioned above in the posts, Windows workstation has far more advantages right now than over MAC. Looking from the future perspective as well, Windows has following major advantages:

                 

                1. Maximus configuration support for heavy editing in future

                2. More robust support for more powerfull video cards

                3. You will get much better configuration in Windows for same money as in MAC

                4. Full support for Blu-Ray and Esata

                5. Very good platform for future upgrades and expansion

                 

                PM me if you want me to help you design a systems for you. I have designed this for lot of Pro Editors.

                • 5. Re: Mac or PC?
                  Harm Millaard Level 7

                  For your information about Maximus:

                   

                   

                  1. Maximus configuration support for heavy editing in future

                   

                   

                  Video card

                  The much touted Maximus solution, at least by Adobe, is an utter waste of money, because it requires a very expensive Quadro card plus a Tesla C2075 card, that is even slower than a simple two generations old GTX 470, for the simple reason that it lacks CUDA cores and memory bandwidth to make it faster. We have several Maximus solutions in the current PPBM5 benchmark and despite prices up to € 6000 for the Quadro 6000 plus a Tesla C2075, these solutions are easily outperformed by many GTX 470/480/570/580/670 and 680 cards, that cost only a fraction. The only thing impressive about Maximus is its price. The only reason to opt for a Maximus solution, despite the cost, is if you absolutely need 10 bit output to your very expensive 10 bit monitors, and then you only get quality, not performance.

                   

                  What determines video card performance for PR?

                  Based on information currently available, it is not so much the number of shaders or CUDA cores. If that were the case, all Kepler cards would easily leave Fermi and older cards in the dust with about three times the number of CUDA cores, but that is not the case. The determining factor may well be memory bandwidth and that explains why the Kepler range is only slightly faster than Fermi and why Kepler is significantly faster than all Quadro or current Tesla cards.

                  • 6. Re: Mac or PC?
                    JFPhoton Level 3

                    ....be advised....I also use footage from the t2i ....which is amazing, considering the cost of the camera and lenses. However, the codec it outputs is in a MOV wrapper that triggers the  crappy 32 bit "Quirk Time Importer" process when importing these files. As PPro is now 64bit only, along with the 64 bit Windows OS, this issue has caused performance problems for some people using PPro,even with a beefy system, when trying to edit natively. Jeff Bellune, on this forum, has suggested to rename the MOV file extensions to MP4, in order to "fool" PPro into importing the footage using its 64bit importer and thus have smooth sailing.

                        As the T2i uses the same image sensor as the more expensive Canon DSLRs that are used in network television production and other professional environments, it is a shame that Canon implements the crappy " Quirk Time" format. If you have a very powerful,serious machine...this may not be an issue. However, with a moderate i7 setup, it could be a problem.

                     

                            However, Adobe has taken steps starting with PPro versions 5 and up to improve  this problem and make these Canon files easier to edit natively. I am not sure what they did....in fact some people are reporting they are doing better with PPro version 5.03,or 5.5, than they are doing with version 6. As many, many persons are using these Canon cameras due to their high quality and low cost, I believe it would "behoove" Adobe to fully address this issue and explain  to its users what has been done to deal with this.....after all, with the explosion of Youtube, vimeo, et al., "pro-sumers" are aquiring the high quality,cheap cameras and they represent a whole new market segment for them...in addition to the full professional community.

                           Some DSLRs can be connected to the Black Magic hyperdeck shuttle, that takes a direct signal from the HDMI output on the camera, and records it directly onto an SSD. The advantage is that  totally uncompressed video can go on it, thus easier on the CPU to edit,but conversely, would require a very fast and massive disk system. The hyperdeck shuttle also can record in two codecs which have a more limited, easier to edit compression...unfortunately...one is a form of DNxHD which is Avid based, and may not work with PPro. The other is a Quirk Time MOV.....I am not sure how this is working out for the users of the shuttle with PPro...I would like to hear.

                          However, the t2i is NOT a candidate for this, as it will not put out a " clean" 1920x1080 signal from the HDMI while filming....even with the Magic Lantern firmware hack.....AFAIK.

                       So, it appears that money saved by purchasing a t2i, will have to be spent on PC components in order to edit smoothly!!!

                    • 7. Re: Mac or PC?
                      coredvideo Level 1

                      Harm,

                      What do u mean by "No BluRay Support" in MAC?

                      • 8. Re: Mac or PC?
                        Harm Millaard Level 7

                        Exactly what I said. MAC's only have the option to use a 'Superdrive' DVD burner, no BR burner because Steve hated Bluray. Just checked the Apple store and no option for anything optical other than DVD. It is like the model T-Ford, which was available in all colors, as long as it was black.

                        • 9. Re: Mac or PC?
                          jasonvp Level 3

                          coredvideo wrote:

                           

                          What do u mean by "No BluRay Support" in MAC?

                          It's Mac, not MAC.  MAC is Media Access Control, aka, your Ethernet NIC's address on the wire.  Macs, on the other hand, are a computer made by Apple, Inc.

                           

                          Harm is somewhat mistaken when he says "No BluRay Support" on the Mac.  You can't buy a BluRay drive from Apple, but there's nothing stopping you from buying one aftermarket from your favorite computer parts vendor de'jour.  I have an LG BluRay in my Mac and it works just fine.

                           

                          jas

                          • 10. Re: Mac or PC?
                            Harm Millaard Level 7

                            You can't buy a BluRay drive from Apple, but there's nothing stopping you from buying one aftermarket from your favorite computer parts vendor de'jour.  I have an LG BluRay in my Mac and it works just fine.

                             

                            But then that is contrary to the nature of most Mac users. They are generally not technically educated and have a natural tendency to just plug the machine into a wall outlet and expect everything to work. Of course you can modify a Mac as you like, but in that case why not opt for a cheaper, faster and better PC with more options?

                            • 11. Re: Mac or PC?
                              VHC-CO-IT Level 1

                              Apple is basically pure evil.  To get an equivilant speed mac to a custom built PC, you're looking at about 2.5-3x the price.  My roommate's new 27" i5 mac came with an AMD graphics card in it so you can kiss any kind of significant acceleration in Adobe software goodbye.  There was a news story a while back about how pissed off Apple was when like CS2 or 3 or 4 came out (I forget which) because it now ran immensely faster on a PC with an Nvidia card.  Macs don't typically come with Nvidia cards, in fact I'm not sure any do.  I don't even know how they fit that high end Radeon series card in that thin little Mac he got but there sure as heck doesn't look like there's room for a proper cooler.

                               

                              My college had a mac and it was like 85 in that computer lab and this was 5 or so years ago when Apple didn't believe in fans so it overheated and shut off an average of 2 times per class period and they got rid of it after a week.  Hopefully they fired whoever in the IT dept thought that was a good idea.  That person was also pushing for a full lab of all Macs and that got shot down real quick after the demo units did so wonderfully, lol.

                               

                              I say save your money and get a much faster, much easier to fix, much better cooled, much more compatible PC for half the price.

                              • 12. Re: Mac or PC?
                                lasvideo Level 4

                                At this point in time I would say get a PC.

                                 

                                I have had wonderful results using my 2008 Mac Pro with Adobe Software over the last several years. Quick, reliable and a joy to use. I find its OS better concieved and  intergrated then Windows.

                                 

                                But that being said, Apple is focused on conumser devices and have made it clear that the professional video market is not their prioity (killing FCP...not releasing a new Mac Pro for a while...).

                                 

                                So, all things considered, I would suggest a PC is a smarter way to go.

                                • 13. Re: Mac or PC?
                                  jasonvp Level 3

                                  Harm Millaard wrote:

                                   

                                  Of course you can modify a Mac as you like, but in that case why not opt for a cheaper, faster and better PC with more options?

                                  Because the operating system that runs on PCs sucks?  Nah, that can't be it.

                                   

                                  Beware of slinging arrows at "most Mac users".  You might be surprised at how technically competent they are, Harm.  You're actually speaking from a tenuously ignorant perspective.

                                   

                                  jas

                                  • 14. Re: Mac or PC?
                                    ExactImage Level 3

                                    Mac are awesome.  So intuitive to use (unless all you've ever known is Microsucks), but I have to admit that Adobe software seems to run a LOT better on Windows than Mac.   Got them side by side here.... I love my Mac Pro, really I do, but alas Production Premium CS6 is simply not as stable on the Mac (SL, Lion or ML) as it is on the windows 7 computer sat next to the Mac Pro.

                                     

                                    I really don't think it's the Mac's fault, it's just that somewhere along the line Adobe may not have done as much debugging on the Mac side ofthings.   For me at least, the Mac is more stable than Windows for everything EXCEPT Adobe software.  Shame.

                                     

                                    Let's not kid ourselves, Premiere Pro, Audition, After Effects et al crash from time to time on BOTH platforms, but on the Mac side the CUDA support seems a little (LOT) more fragile!

                                     

                                    We're running with CUDA turned OFF on the Mac until it's time to export (need CUDA for resize to DVD), whereas on the PC it's on all the time.

                                    • 15. Re: Mac or PC?
                                      Harm Millaard Level 7

                                      Jason,

                                       

                                      Beware of slinging arrows at "most Mac users".  You might be surprised at how technically competent they are, Harm.  You're actually speaking from a tenuously ignorant perspective.

                                       

                                      FYI, both my wife and daughter are Mac lovers (iPad, iPhone, i-whatever) and my son and I can be ranked under the 'Mac haters' category. But as it happens, both females here are not technically inclined to say the least and the males have a much more IT oriented background. The same applies to the families of my brothers and many friends. When I look at people working in advertising and art design, an area where Mac seems to be the magic word from a historical perspective, it often strikes me that they are so lacking in basic computer skills, but OTOH, in their defense, why should they? If you plug a Mac into the wall outlet, they can do their creative work and everything else is just a waste of time.

                                      • 16. Re: Mac or PC?
                                        jasonvp Level 3

                                        Harm Millaard wrote:

                                         

                                        But as it happens, both females here are not technically inclined to say the least and the males have a much more IT oriented background.

                                        FWIW, your sample size is too small.  I work with, literally, hundreds of engineers (ie, computer geeks to the extreme) whose jobs require them to know machines and operating systems inside, outside, and upside down.  To a man (and woman), they all choose to use Macs since our employer is progressive enough to offer up both.  The same applied to my previous employer and likely my next one.  They do so because Macs work better from a geek's perspective.

                                         

                                        The level of "geek" I'm talking about doesn't apply to IT people.  It's well beyond that.

                                         

                                        jas

                                        • 17. Re: Mac or PC?
                                          Jeff Bellune Level 5

                                          This thread is coming perilously close to morphing into a Mac vs. PC war, rather than remaining a relatively objective analysis of the pros and cons of the two platforms.  Should it morph completely, it will be locked.

                                           

                                          Jeff

                                          • 18. Re: Mac or PC?
                                            Harm Millaard Level 7

                                            The level of "geek" I'm talking about doesn't apply to IT people.  It's well beyond that.

                                             

                                            You mean research laboratories, or people that get invited to the Microsoft Management Summit once a year? I have never seen any research laboratory whether that is Shell, IBM, Philips, Siemens, Akzo, BNFL, Boeing, or name a few other companies, use Mac.

                                            • 19. Re: Mac or PC?
                                              jasonvp Level 3

                                              Carry on.

                                              • 20. Re: Mac or PC?
                                                VHC-CO-IT Level 1

                                                I think the decision never has to get past performance vs price vs reliability.  Macs are just to darn expensive for what you get and you can build your own PC with parts that are actually good (unlike Dell and HP for example) and have it run flawlessly for over 5 years.

                                                 

                                                The slight catch is you pretty much do have to custom build it, as anything in a store won't be good enough.  Someone brought into my shop a 1 year old Dell PC that they paid $1100 for.  The hard drive had failed completely.  I opened it up, it's a Hitachi!  For $1100 you'd think they'd put in a hard drive that's actually good but nope lol.  It also had liquid capacitors on the motherboard, looked like it may have been built by Foxconn, and had Elpida memory in it.  Scary!  For $1100 in a custom build my store, you'd get a military class III MSI board with all metal caps, a high efficiency PSU, RAM with a lifetime warranty and aluminum fin coolers, a high rated seagate drive (well probably an SSD actually) and the top rated DVD burner in the entire world.  Let's say it's an i5 ivy with 8GB of RAM and a $200 level graphics card, you're looking at well over $2000 for a Mac with similar stats.

                                                 

                                                And RE: that other dude's awesome comment, Vista was a unuseable nightmare but Windows 7 is actually good.  So the only reason to say the OS sucks is if the user isn't using it properly.  Windows 8 looks like they're going back to the 9th ring of hell but I still don't think it merits switching to a Mac.  Plus, it seems to have been my experience that the Mac OS is fantastic and super user friendly...until you try to actually do something.  Installing a wireless printer took over an hour.  Attempting to do certain maintenance tasks took 10x longer than it would in Windows.  Itunes updates kept jamming.  Safari kept freaking out and crashing while running certain webpages.  The Firefox updater service wasn't running so well in the background and kept stalling out.  Starcraft II crashed every time a certain app was left open on another "panel" or "desktop" or whatever.  I know that's 99% 3rd party vendor problems with their own software not running so well on a Mac but still, you probably do have to put in a printer and a copy of SC2 and a browser that's actually good at some point so any Mac user will run into issues like that.