17 Replies Latest reply on Aug 20, 2012 8:41 PM by acrbo

    I need advice on a new PC to run my CS5

    MP5434 Level 1

      I would be grateful for your thoughts on the wisdom of this new build? I am limited in my knowledge. I only have one previous build. Thank you ahead of time for your thoughts.


      I hope to order the parts for a new dedicated video editing PC. While I want pretty good speed for the editing process, it does not need to be a ferrari. I wanted to stay below $1000, but alas, I have arrived at over $500 above my planned budget, so any savings that would not significantly hurt speed would be very welcome. Also, any compatability issues. The system will be used exclusively for CS5 Premiere, After Effects, and a few other milder prorams. Our family has a hobby of filmmaking, but we have begun to tackle larger projects and our old platform is SLOW. The video card has to be an NVIDIA that has CUDA technology to support Mercury Playback.





      Tower: $50 Rosewill CHALLENGER Black Gaming ATX Mid Tower
      http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6811147153


      PSU: $100 OCZ ZT Series 650W Fully-Modular 80PLUS Bronze High Performance Power Supply compatible with Intel Sandy Bridge Core i3 i5 i7
      http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6817341051



      CPU: $340 Intel Core i7-3770K Ivy Bridge 3.5GHz (3.9GHz Turbo) LGA 1155 77W Quad-Core Desktop Processor Intel HD Graphics 4000 BX80637I73770K


      Cooling Fan: $35 COOLER MASTER Hyper 212 EVO RR-212E-20PK-R2 Continuous Direct Contact 120mm Sleeve CPU Cooler Compatible with latest Intel 2011/1366/1155
      http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6835103099



      MB: $170 Gigabyte  Intel Z77 LGA 1155 AMD CrossFireX/NVIDIA SLI Dual LAN Dual UEFI BIOS ATX Motherboard GA-Z77X-UD5H
      http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B [...] PDKIKX0DER



      Memory: $130 G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 16GB (4 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 2133 (PC3 17000) Desktop Memory Model F3-17000CL9Q-16GBXM
      http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6820231563



      Video Card: $220 EVGA 015-P3-1480-KR GeForce GTX 480 (Fermi) 1536MB 384-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card
      http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6814130759



      HDD: $135 Hitachi GST Deskstar 7K3000 HDS723020BLA642 (0f12115) 2TB 7200 RPM 64MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive
      http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6822145473



      Additional HDDs. I have one more Iternal 1TB Samsun F3 from last yers build tha I will transfer to the new build. Additionally, I have multiple ruged external HDD for storage of data. I will put in a RAID or? in the coming months,as I can't spend the money right now.



      SSD for OS and Applications: $180 SanDisk Extreme SSD 240 GB SATA 6.0 Gb-s 2.5-Inch Solid State Drive SDSSDX-240G-G25
      http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B [...] D0A8YQ4I2J



      DVD: $20 SAMSUNG 22X DVD Burner 22X DVD+R 8X DVD+

      http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6827151244



      Card Reader: $8 Rosewill RCR-IC001 40-in-1 USB 2.0 3.5" Internal Card Reader w/ USB Port / Extra Silver Face Plate
      http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6820223103



      OS: $140 Microsoft Windows 7 Professional SP1 64-bit - OEM


      Mouse: $7 BTC M810PU Stylish USB Optical Desktop Mouse - Black
      http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B [...] Z5QIK4VMW2



      Keyboard: $12 Ultra Slim Design BTC 6311U USB Chiclet-style Keyboard -Polished Finish -Black
      http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B [...] Z5QIK4VMW2



      Monitor: I will recycle the monitor from the SLOW system.



      Cables: Do I need to order any kind of cables or tools to build?


      Thank You




        • 1. Re: I need advice on a new PC to run my CS5
          John T Smith Adobe Community Professional & MVP

          Allowing for the 2.5 year difference in technology, that is "somewhat" similar to what I built - link in http://forums.adobe.com/thread/652694


          Use the Power supply calculator http://extreme.outervision.com/index.jsp (the PRO version) to verify the size of your power supply... I have an 850 watt, and my personal opinion is that a 650 watt unit provides little or no margin for future growth (you did mention adding more drives in the future)


          I also have a mid-tower case... and now wish I had bought a full tower to make drive cabling easier


          If that case has a vented/drilled side, do consider adding a fan to blow cool air directly onto the motherboard and nVidia card... I have 2 side fans


          Your motherboard SHOULD have all the cables you need... but check to be sure, so you will be able to order SATA cables if needed

          • 2. Re: I need advice on a new PC to run my CS5
            MP5434 Level 1

            Thank you John Smith! You are very kind to respond to my inquiry. I will certainly modify the system and get the full tower and the larger PSU.

            • 3. Re: I need advice on a new PC to run my CS5
              Harm Millaard Level 7

              Nothing wrong with these specs, apart from the choice of the case, as John mentioned. Go for a full tower. There are two minor considerations:


              The Corsair Performance Pro SSD came out as best in a recent test of 37 SSD's and has a reasonable price of around € 235. The only drawback of this SSD is its high power consumption during writes. The main advantage of this SSD is that it is based on the Marvell controller, in contrast to for instance the Intel 520 and Crucial M4, which are based on the SandForce controller.


              Why is that important? Well, SandForce measures their rated speeds on compressible data, so a 50 K Word document can be written in X time, but the controller compresses it to say 10 K before actually writing it. So they claim 50 K writes instead of 10 K effective writes. Video material is not compressible, it has already been heavily compressed, so all the claimed write speeds with SandForce controllers are extremely inflated when working with video material. In practice the write speeds of SandForce based SSD's with video material do no better than half the claimed speed at best. Marvell OTOH measures the real write speeds, using uncompressible material.


              A second issue in choosing a SSD is the 'stable state' performance degradation. A new SSD performs quite good, but after having been written to, performance degrades over time, until it reaches its 'stable state' when performance does no longer degrade. The Corsair Performance Pro shows much less performance degradation over time than the Intel 520 or Crucial M4.


              But there is interesting news coming up. Later this month Plextor will introduce a new series of SSD's called the M5 Pro, based on the latest Marvell controller and using 19nm toggle-mode-nand flash with nice performance results on paper. It may be an attractive alternative to the Corsair Performance Pro, also because it uses a 1 GB cache. Well, wait for the first benchmarks to appear.


              For the PSU I would look at Corsair or Seasonic, but only at Gold+ label units and with 850+ W, for instance the Corsair AX series. The GTX 480 is very power hungry and noisy. You may want to consider alternatives like the GTX 570 or even the GTX 670.

              • 4. Re: I need advice on a new PC to run my CS5
                MP5434 Level 1

                Harm Millaard, thank you!! Great addendum. I just wrote all these notes down. I am off to shop and see what I can do with this information. I am so very grateful for your kindness in responding. You have spent much time learning all of this information, then you are willing to share it with less knowledgable people like myself. Good evening!

                • 5. Re: I need advice on a new PC to run my CS5
                  RjL190365 Level 4



                  The Crucial M4 is not based on a Sandforce controller (in fact, Crucial/Micron has never used Sandforce controllers in any of its SSDs). It is based on a Marvell controller. However, it is slower overall than the Corsair Performance Pro because it uses synchronous NAND flash chips as opposed to the toggle NAND flash chips used in the Performance Pro. (SSDs that use asynchronous NAND flash chips are even slower than those that use synchronous NAND flash chips.)

                  • 6. Re: I need advice on a new PC to run my CS5
                    Harm Millaard Level 7

                    Thanks for the correction, Randall.

                    • 7. Re: I need advice on a new PC to run my CS5

                      I wouldn't even touch that Hitachi hard drive.  They're soooo terrible at failure rates.  For a secondary that's high speed with low heat and has long term wear leveling and good reviews, go with a high capacity Western Digital Intellipower drive.  They spin down to 5200 RPM when not in use but at full speed (7200) they get 120MB/s or more in real world read speed tests.


                      That SSD is pretty scary too.  Their failure rate and performance degradation are frightening.  That manufacturer uses typically 1000-4000 write cycle before dying chips and the implementation of the controller was rushed and glitchy.  For ultra long term stability without the flash chips failing, I'd go with an Agility 4 or Vertex 4.  The agilities are a bit pokey at like mid-200Mbps speeds in reality and the Vertex ones aren't very much more $.  The only problem is, they arrive super glitchy until you flash the firmware and since some are destructive, you may need another PC to do it prior to installing Windows.  They definitely last 9000+ writes though and have an internal inter-flash-chip RAID system inside the hard drive itself!  So if one chip fails, you can still get your data!  FREAKING AMAZING!  Also, automatic garbage collection and low voltage, less destructive writes.  Otherwise for just plain high grade chips, go with an Intel SSD, preferably a 520 or 330 series.  They don't have any stupid firmware glitches or problems I've build Kingston HyperX ones that allegedly just use nice chips but nothing special for preventing them from failing.  They're just crazy fast.


                      By the way, you may want to take a look at the Rosewill FUTURE case on newegg.  It's like $55 marked down from $90 or so and quite a bit nicer than the Challenger. I have one in stock at my store and I think it's nicer quality overall than the $140 MSI Nighthawk sitting next to it.


                      The mouse and keyboard look a bit generic and thus risky.  A very high rated set is the Logitech MK120 for around $16. They're very nice but not incredible but they're also not $40.


                      I also don't think the i7s are worth it for much of anything these days.  If you're using CUDA, the CPU is barely used in video editing so I'd drop it to a high end ivy bridge i5.  I have an i5 at home (sandy bridge) and it blazes through Premiere Elements 10, which I don't believe uses CUDA at all actually.  So yeah, they're FAST.  Speaking of graphics cards, I'm not at all an expert on which are best for Adobe software Oh and my i5 at home is a sandy so it's 90W and the new Ivy ones are 77W so you might be able to dump the custom cooler but mine does run pretty darn hot and 13W isn't a huge difference.  Speaking of cooling, put one of these in whatever case you get: COOLER MASTER R4-C2R-20AC-GP.  They're silent and very high CFM.  I have 3 of them in my system is it seems excessive.  According to my math, it swaps out 100% of the air every 2.1 seconds lol.


                      For the RAM, that speed will definitely make your system run unstably.  The memory controllers in i7's and new i5's run at 1600.  If you go too far past that, you'll blue screen or damage your board.  What you really want is to run at the recommended, non-OC speed with lower timing RAM.  That means it takes less cycles to perform the action.  In other words, just faster, not hotter or higher voltage.  What's the the performance difference between that and high speed, high timing ram?  NOTHING!  It's basically the same RAM with different XMP profiles except it doesn't overheat your board or melt your processor, lol.  One of the highest rated RAM sets of all time is the G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 1600 (PC3 12800) D F3-12800CL8D-8GBXM set.  That's 8-8-8-24 timing! Speaking of that, I've ran Starcraft II while watching an HD movie on Netflix with a 600DPI 8.5 x 11" photoshop file with 70 layers open and my system was using 5.1 GB of RAM.  So I don't think anything but a web server needs more than 8GB.  I never encoded a blu-ray though but I doubt it'd hit 8.  You could always just get 2 sets of these or the 4-pack (F3-1600C8Q-16GAB) which is unfortunately out of stock on newegg   or the 2x8 set, which is Sniper memory, F3-1600C9D-16GSR (also out of stock!).


                      If you're going to drop a bunch of money on a board, why go with Gigabyte?  ASUS and MSI are the best and Gigabyte is sort of 2nd place.  The MSI Z77A-G45 is a fantastic board for like $5 more.  if you read the advanced features and specs, it's quite nice and I've built around 40 computers with MSI boards without a single problem ever.  They're also the most heat resistant by far (as in not breaking when operating in a hot environment)


                      Samsung burners break a lot, especially burning lots of DVDs.  I needed to do around 200 two different times and broke my lite-on the first time and my samsung the 2nd time.  Now I have an ASUS and it's burned over 1000 total.  It's also several seconds faster at burning the same image. The highest rated drive on all of Newegg is this one: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827135204 It's the 16 time customer award winner That's like 4 years straight against like 500 other models and it's $18.99 lol.


                      That PSU is nice but I think you could get away with a cheaper one and also you only need like a 450W supply.  The higher they get to the top rating, the more efficient they get (to a certain point) so you wouldn't want to purposely use 50% of the available power at max load for example.  The CORSAIR Builder Series CX500 V2 500W is very nice but to reduce failure rate (and room overheating) I'd go with at least a Bronze certified one, if not silver or gold but of course those cost A LOT.  Considering price vs watts vs efficiency, the best bang for your buck might be the: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371031.


                      Oh and to answer your Q, almost all motherboards come with all necessary cabling like 2x SATA III cables for example and the case should come with all mounting equipment and I've never needed fan power cable extenders or anything.  The PSU shouldn't need head type adapters either.

                      • 8. Re: I need advice on a new PC to run my CS5
                        VHC-CO-IT Level 1

                        oops, I may be wrong about anticipated RAM usage in Premiere at least, as someone running a very particular test on another site said: When exporting to MPEG-2, the more ram you have the faster the exporting time will be.  I did a quick test on the AMD system.  I upgraded the memory from 8 gigs to 12 gigs and the render times improved by 20% when exporting to MPEG-2 using all of the video cards above. When I upgraded the system memory to 16 gigs of RAM, the rendering times where approximately 40% faster than when I only had 8 gigs of memory.  By adding more system memory, you can actually speed up the time it takes to export to MPEG-2 DVD with what ever NVidia video card you are using.


                        Also, apparently unlike other software, Adobe Premiere doesn't use the GPU at all for encoding or decoding, that's 100% the CPU.  But l still wouldn't go with the i7 Plus, the one you have is basically an i5 with a different name.  It has 4 cores instead of 6, 2 memory controllers instead of 3, etc.  I can't tell from the specs if it's hyperthreaded (seems odd, huh?) but if it is, that's actually detrimental to video encoding.  There are some examples of turning HT off causing i3's to encode videos faster so I'd assuming it's the same for all chips.  Something about sharing cache memory or how it handle memory control operations.  So yeah, I'd definitely lean towards a $210-ish i5.

                        • 9. Re: I need advice on a new PC to run my CS5
                          Harm Millaard Level 7

                          You have a PM. I suggest you read it quickly.

                          • 10. Re: I need advice on a new PC to run my CS5
                            RjL190365 Level 4

                            Actually, in my own personal testing you are incorrect about several items:


                            1) None of the current WD Intellipower hard drives spin anywhere close to 7200 RPM. In fact, all hard drives (Intellipower included) have fixed-speed spindles. What the Intellipower feature does is that it spins down the platters to a complete stop (0 RPM) when at idle but only spin back up to its fixed spindle speed during access (in this case, 5405 RPM). The spin-down-to-a-complete-stop-during-idle feature makes the Intellipower drives unsuitable for use in a video editing system except for backups.


                            2) I have both an i5-2400 and an i7-2600K (both Sandy Bridge CPUs). In my testing with PPBM5, clock for clock the i5 is actually 15 to 20 percent slower overall than an equivalently-clocked i7. This is because Premiere and AME do take good advantage of additional threads and Hyperthreading. Thus, although the i5 seems to be a better value than the i7 based on only the cost of the CPU, the i5 is actually penny-wise and pound-foolish when it comes to the total cost of the entire PC.


                            3) Your statement that encoding is done entirely on the CPU is true - but only if the source and output resolution are exactly equal to one another and you are not using any GPU-accelerated effects whatsoever in your Premiere projects.


                            4) The GTX 480 is power-hungry - enough that even a good 450W PSU is marginal at best even with a very-low-end, very sluggish CPU. In fact, NVidia specifically states that the GTX 480 requires at least a 600W PSU.

                            • 11. Re: I need advice on a new PC to run my CS5
                              Harm Millaard Level 7

                              I suggest you first start reading what works for PR and what does not, before posting such a collection of ill-thought and outright wrong remarks that can mislead many.

                              • 12. Re: I need advice on a new PC to run my CS5
                                Bill Gehrke Most Valuable Participant

                                Thank you Harm for cooling off and educating this newby!

                                • 13. Re: I need advice on a new PC to run my CS5
                                  VHC-CO-IT Level 1

                                  Coming from the guy who said striped RAID arrays of 2 drives are a great idea and suggested using a 3570K instead of 3570 because it's faster (it's the same speed with unlocked multipliers).  Judging by your PM, you obviously have series problems.  I build customer computers for a living and I'm a high ranking members of the Association of Computer Repair Business Owners.  What do you do again?


                                  P.S. "clock for clock the i5 is actually 15 to 20 percent slower overall than an equivalently-clocked i7" And it's around 55% more expensive, thus my suggestion.

                                  • 14. Re: I need advice on a new PC to run my CS5
                                    RjL190365 Level 4

                                    VHC-CO-IT wrote:


                                    P.S. "clock for clock the i5 is actually 15 to 20 percent slower overall than an equivalently-clocked i7" And it's around 55% more expensive, thus my suggestion.


                                    Again, you completely ignored the fact that I was comparing the total cost of the entire build, not just the cost of the CPU. The motherboard, the GPU, the disks, the PSU, the RAM, the case and the CPU and case cooling - all add up. Sure, the i7 may cost 55 percent more than the i5 - but that's only if you're comparing the cost of only the CPU, completely ignoring the cost of the rest of the components of the PC build. With the typical multi-disk setup, 16GB or more RAM and a GTX 560 Ti or better, that "55 percent" higher cost of the i7 translates into a less than 10 percent increase in the total cost of the entire build. And that's what I was trying to get at.

                                    • 15. Re: I need advice on a new PC to run my CS5
                                      ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

                                      A 15 or 20% increase in the videoediting environment is huge. This is not the same as gaming systems where you simply drop from 90 FPS to 60FPS. With videoediting, the application has millisecond intervals to decode, frame scale and adjust, resample, interpolate, and then encode for draw out on the screen. Combine this with layers of other media, different codecs, text layers, audio sample rate differences. The difference in overall performance may be 15 to 20% in raw Floating point benchmarks or generic benchmarks, however the difference in Cores/threads often decide whether a sequence or section of a sequence can be played back real time or not. Along with this the I5 system will hit a performance ceiling far quicker than the I7 which means the editor will have to change their workflow to continue working on that project. That in itself can cause some delays and overall frustration as the editor try's to get use to a new system of work. Since that is often why new editing systems are purchased, that is something you want to avoid if possible.


                                      There are perfectly fine reasons to use a 2 drive raid 0 if you are aware of the possible failures and have a solid backup strategy. This is the same as there are perfectly fine reasons, not to use parity raids such as Raid 5 or 6 on the onboard controller with desktop drives. These reasons include the raid controller prematurely dropping the drive out of the raid because it was repairing a bad block and did not have the timeout feature that Enterprise drives have. Also onboard raid controllers take days 36 to 48+ hours to rebuild a 3 to 4 drive raid when a SAS controller can do that in 2 hours or less. An 8 drive raid would take well over that if you found the board that could handle that many drives. Another reason has to do with the Raid management software options along with parity integrity verification ability of the controller. The better SAS raid controller cards allow you to import a foreign raid configuration incase a raid controller no longer recognizes the raid volume such as from a bios update that includes an Oprom update for the onboard controller. I don't think anyone likes explaining to a client that their entire raid array they thought included data protection is gone along with all of their data. However if this happens with the raid 0 and 2 drives, you can redo the raid 0 array and use a Utility like paragon to recover the lost volume table and data as long as the client does not initialize the drives before the recovery. So with this in mind, The raid 0 is often the only solution for many clients who cannot budget for a large redundant raid with an expensive raid controller and several enterprise drives. That raid is still not bullet proof. It just gives the editor another level of protection. Raid 10 will work on the onboard but the rebuild times are just as slow as the parity raids. However this is a cheap solution that often works for those who cant have any downtime at all during work hours and often do not have the time to backup daily.


                                      As a general recommendation to those looking at this thread. Atleast check the Power minimum requirements by the video card on Nvidia's website. What is often said as you only need does not meet manufacturers spec.



                                      • 16. Re: I need advice on a new PC to run my CS5
                                        VHC-CO-IT Level 1

                                        It should be mentioned that if you're at work doing video editing and they pay you $30/hour, you better shave off that 20% encoding time with an i7 for like $100 more one time hardware cost.  If you're at home, go check your facebook or text your friend or a make a hot pocket because 10 minutes instead of 9 minutes isn't a whole lot of your time wasted 50% more money for 20% more speed is just not a home environment decision unless you're quite rich, in which case actually just get a 3 memory channel board with the top of the line i7's that are on a different socket, get a OCZ Revodrive 960GB PCI-E SSD that runs at around 1000MB/s read speed, and one of those new $4000 Quadro 6000 cards lol.

                                        • 17. Re: I need advice on a new PC to run my CS5

                                          My name is Dan and I am the founder of the Association of Computer Repair Business Owners. I ran across this thread when I saw the statement of a member stating "I'm a high ranking member of the Association of Computer Repair Business Owners"..


                                          I'd like to point out that there are NO "high ranking members" of the Association, and if there were i'm sure I would know who they are…These kinds of statements/comments are not considered representative of the Associations members.