15 Replies Latest reply on Aug 30, 2012 7:57 AM by varidoc.admin

    Installing on Eclipse 4.2

    David R

      Has anyone successfully installed CF Builder 2.0.1 plugin on Eclipse 4.2 (Juno)?

        • 1. Re: Installing on Eclipse 4.2
          Pepe.FxUG Level 1

          No.

          It completely doesn't work

          • 2. Re: Installing on Eclipse 4.2
            David R Level 1

            Unfortunately that has been my experience as well.   I wonder if Adobe will make any effort to put out an update that supports running as a plugin to Eclipse 4.2?

            • 3. Re: Installing on Eclipse 4.2
              charlie@carehart.org Adobe Community Professional & MVP

              I don’t (wonder, that is, whether “Adobe will make any effort to put out an update that supports running as a plugin to Eclipse 4.2”). Are you under an impression that CFBuilder is dead, David? That Adobe is no longer updating it? What would give you that impression? They just came out with 2.0.1 in May.

               

              Further, for those who maybe hadn’t seen it, Adobe came out just yesterday with a roadmap for CFBuilder (and CF), covering the next 2 releases. http://blogs.coldfusion.com/post.cfm/product-roadmap-for-coldfusion

               

              Certainly we can expect that each upgrade will move to successively higher Eclipse versions. But as a commercial product (also integrating other commercial and open source plugins), they simply can’t just jump whenever there’s a new Eclipse release, even a major one. We can maybe be frustrated if it’s not updated more often, but no, we should not assert they will “make no effort” to support updated Eclipse platforms.

               

              /charlie

              • 4. Re: Installing on Eclipse 4.2
                David R Level 1

                Charlie,

                    

                >> we should not assert that they will "make no effort" to support updated Eclipse platforms"

                 

                I did not assert any such thing, nor did I imply that Adobe is no longer updating CF Builder.  So maybe you could back off on the offended attitude a little.

                 

                Clearly Adobe is planning on upgrading Builder along with each major release of Server, and hopefully we can expect that such upgrades will support then current or near-current releases of Eclipse.

                 

                Perhaps I should have added "before CF Server 11 comes out" to my musing about a Builder update.  My comment was coming more from the standpoint of getting updates to CF Builder that are not tied to major releases of CF Server.   Since Builder is sold as a separate product, which must be licensed and paid for separately from CF Server,  I think we should be able to expect updates to CF Builder independent of Server releases, at minimum to fix known reported bugs in functionality.   Adobe's track record since Builder 1.0 on providing maintenance releases of this kind has been, well, non-existent. 

                 

                Also, since Builder is built on Eclipse, I don't think it's outrageous to suggest that Adobe make some effort to support major new releases of Eclipse that occur outside the CF Server release schedule.  Given the track record, I don't really expect them to.  It would be a nice surprise just to get a maintenance bug-fix upgrade at some point in the next 6 months.  For any product pretending to be a modern IDE, commercial or otherwise, that's not an unreasonable expectation at all.

                • 5. Re: Installing on Eclipse 4.2
                  charlie@carehart.org Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                  Oh but you did assert it, David. But yes, if you’d added the clarification “before CF11” I would have worded things differently.

                   

                  As for my offended tone, it comes from way too many (especially recent) snarky comments about CF/CFB and Adobe’e support of them. I’m really growing weary of them. I had no information on which to base my conclusion of your note as being any different than the others. Apologies if you may have contributed many things here that should have shown me you had a different perspective than your wording presented. I don’t tend to look into past notes from folks before responding, and just go on what’s written if I don’t recognize the person.

                   

                  As for the wish that CFB updates would not be tied to CF itself, I don’t think they always are. I seem to recall a 1.0.1 release that was independent of a new CF release, but I could be wrong. But even if so, certainly 2.0 and 2.0.1 have been, so you have a reasonable argument there that it could be more frequent.

                   

                  Indeed, I agreed in my final sentence that we can lament there are not more frequent updates.

                   

                   

                   

                  /charlie

                  • 6. Re: Installing on Eclipse 4.2
                    David R Level 1

                    Charlie,

                     

                    If the phrase "I wonder if Adobe will make any effort" translates to you as an assertion that "they will make no effort", then we have a different understanding of the English language.

                    • 7. Re: Installing on Eclipse 4.2
                      Adam Cameron. Level 5

                      I did not assert any such thing, nor did I imply that Adobe is no longer updating CF Builder.  So maybe you could back off on the offended attitude a little.

                       

                      [...]

                       

                      If the phrase "I wonder if Adobe will make any effort" translates to you as an assertion that "they will make no effort", then we have a different understanding of the English language.

                      Well: quite.  I didn't really see how Charlie got to where he did on this one.  You certainly neither said nor even vaguely implied what he's suggesting.

                       

                      I think we should be able to expect updates to CF Builder independent of Server releases, at minimum to fix known reported bugs in functionality.   Adobe's track record since Builder 1.0 on providing maintenance releases of this kind has been, well, non-existent.

                       

                      Also, since Builder is built on Eclipse, I don't think it's outrageous to suggest that Adobe make some effort to support major new releases of Eclipse that occur outside the CF Server release schedule.  Given the track record, I don't really expect them to.  It would be a nice surprise just to get a maintenance bug-fix upgrade at some point in the next 6 months.  For any product pretending to be a modern IDE, commercial or otherwise, that's not an unreasonable expectation at all.

                       

                      Agreed.  In chosing the Eclipse platform, Adobe have also implicitly bought into the Eclipse release and update model.  Well they ought to have, but haven't.  There's an update mechanism built into CFB (over and above the standard Eclipse one, I mean), but - in its entire lifetime - I don't recall a single update being availed that way (I could be wrong, but I don't recall it).

                       

                      Adobe need to get their patch cycle sorted out for both CF and CFB - both are pretty stagnant for the update/release cycle the IT industry has become familiar with and come to expect over recent years - and neither should be tied to the other in this area.  Obviously there needs to be a language-support patch that comes out with CFB in lock-step with CF's releases, but they really need to be dripping out bugfixes etc constantly too.  And, obviously, keep up to date with Eclispe releases too.  I think if they only released the free-standing CFB install they could get away with only supporting the one embedded Eclipse version between major CFB releases, but given they also provide it as a plug-in, it needs to be able to be plugged-in to the current release of Eclipse.  This is not a wild expectation: this is pretty much a minimum baseline, I think.

                       

                      --

                      Adam

                      • 8. Re: Installing on Eclipse 4.2
                        charlie@carehart.org Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                        It did (to me, your originally worded “I wonder if Adobe will make any effort to put out an update that supports running as a plugin to Eclipse 4.2?”). But look, we’ve made our respective points clear. And yes I saw Adam’s reply to you, and I see he agrees with you. Fair enough. Can we move on from that part of the debate?

                         

                        To his added points, though, I’ll say again (lest anyone misinterpret my own stance in all this) that I did agree in my first reply that we can lament that there aren’t more frequent updates, and especially with respect to permitting folks to install the plugin version on newer Eclipse bases. I’m not arguing with you guys there.

                         

                        I was just standing up for CFB and Adobe, against a perceived (and in many cases from others, a real) slight on their interest in “updating CFB” at all. Great to hear that’s not what you meant, but in that others do, I’d think that this of all places would be a safe place for me to offer a defense for it, whether necessary in that particular case or not. You’re asking me to understand your point of view. Can you please consider mine, too? (I’m hoping that can rest as a rhetorical question.)

                         

                        /charlie

                        • 9. Re: Installing on Eclipse 4.2
                          David R Level 1

                          Charlie,

                           

                          I have no issue with your point of view.   I don't even mind that you felt a general defense of Adobe was necessary in reply to my post.   My problem is that in doing so you first insulted my intelligence:

                          Are you under an impression that CFBuilder is dead, David? That Adobe is no longer updating it? What would give you that impression? They just came out with 2.0.1 in May.

                          and then ended by misquoting me:

                          we should not assert they will “make no effort” to support updated Eclipse platforms.

                          That was rude and unwarranted.

                          • 10. Re: Installing on Eclipse 4.2
                            charlie@carehart.org Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                            Please stop it. You said what you said in your first note and I stand by what I said based on that, and in all my notes since then. I said I had no knowledge of your stance on things (or your intelligence) beyond what you wrote. I’m sorry that you felt offended by my reply, but pressing the point is not getting us anywhere.

                             

                            /charlie

                            • 11. Re: Installing on Eclipse 4.2
                              David R Level 1

                              Why don't you stop it?   Have to get the last word in?   "I'm sorry that you felt offended by my reply", well, I'm sorry you can't understand why your reply was offensive.  I'm standing up for all new posters who get slammed by a self-righteous "MVP", so in that sense it's getting me somewhere.  

                               

                              By the way, which of the two quotes below do you stand by?   You seem to have as much trouble interpreting your own English as you do mine.

                               

                              But as a commercial product (also integrating other commercial and open source plugins), they simply can’t just jump whenever there’s a new Eclipse release, even a major one.  We can maybe be frustrated if it’s not updated more often....

                               

                              I’ll say again (lest anyone misinterpret my own stance in all this) that I did agree in my first reply that we can lament that there aren’t more frequent updates, and especially with respect to permitting folks to install the plugin version on newer Eclipse bases.  I’m not arguing with you guys there.

                               

                              Eagerly awaiting your last word on the subject.

                              • 12. Re: Installing on Eclipse 4.2
                                Adam Cameron. Level 5

                                Please stop it. You said what you said in your first note and I stand by what I said based on that, and in all my notes since then. I said I had no knowledge of your stance on things (or your intelligence) beyond what you wrote. I’m sorry that you felt offended by my reply, but pressing the point is not getting us anywhere.

                                 

                                You have a nasty habit of having a go at people, Charlie, but when the call you on it you get a bit defensive, and start playing this "just stop it" card.

                                 

                                David's got a point: you were a bit rude and patronising to him (with absolutely no basis, other than you misreading what he said, I think).

                                 

                                You need to realise that if you start having a go at people, you've got to perhaps expect them to have a go back (especially if it's you who's out of line, which I think you are here).  And don't simply get all indignant and self-righteous about it.


                                If you're after having the last word, I can't help but think a simple "hey, sorry mate" might be the best ones to have.

                                 

                                --

                                Adam

                                • 13. Re: Installing on Eclipse 4.2
                                  charlie@carehart.org Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                  David, do we know each other? Do you have previous experience with me, that you’re bringing into this conversation? Or is the self-righteous MVP slam just an accusation against many that you deem to be such? Adobe grants that designation to folks who they feel contribute a lot to the forums. I suppose it can happen sometimes that they (MVPs) could come across in a way that offends some. I can promise you that it’s never my intent, so yes, I was sorry that you felt as you did. But no, I was not going to apologize for what I said, because (for the nth time) I was responding simply to what you wrote. It’s really your issue that you’ve chosen to press this point so.

                                   

                                  As for getting the last word in, that wasn’t my intent at all. I would challenge you to consider your emotions here in all this. I know you have Adam backing up your assertions, and no one else has spoken up to back me up, but maybe no one else is really reading this thread. But if anyone wants to use this as a chance to give me some feedback, go for it. I do all I do in the community, simply out of a spirit of wanting to help. I’m not perfect, of course.

                                   

                                  It does pain me to see you feeling the need to slam me here, and failing to see my point of view (about my response being based solely on what you wrote). And now you’re trying to assert that I have “have trouble interpreting my own English”. Goodness.

                                   

                                  Yes, I do stand by my two statements below. I don’t see them as incompatible as you do.

                                   

                                  And no, I don’t “need the last word”. If you feel compelled to say something in reply, go for it. Say whatever you want and I won’t reply unless you ask me to. You could even use the chance to say something slanderous or libelous if you wanted, just to be mean, and I’ll still not speak up to argue it. I can stand behind my record of contributions here. If that pains me as self-righteous in your eyes, so be it.

                                   

                                   

                                   

                                  /charlie

                                  • 14. Re: Installing on Eclipse 4.2
                                    charlie@carehart.org Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                    I have a “nasty habit”? of “having a go at people”? No, I really do not. Feel free to review all the posts I’ve made on these forums, and show me some preponderance of “nasty” replies. Might I have an occasional one? Sure, when people get snarky, I will give it back if they press the point. I wouldn’t call it a “habit”, and it’s never “nasty”. Honestly, Adam.

                                     

                                    And I rarely “have a go at people”. I simple call things as I see them, as I did in my first reply here, based (solely) on what was said. Sure, folks may sometimes take offense at that. I’ve learned that there’s really little one can do about that. Some people just have an issue that leads them to take offense at things that most would not. The mere fact that you’re backing up David does not in my mind indicate this isn’t just another one of those cases. You both just have the same issue with this, is how I would see it. I don’t know of there being any arbiter here.

                                     

                                    Again, I stand by what I said, without qualification. I’m stunned that I’m being pressed so to do it, but there you have it.

                                     

                                    As for the “stop it card”, you know, you guys are the ones digging your hole here. This should have stopped a long time ago. I only “play that card” when it’s clear that it’s warranted—yes, “in my opinion”. What else have I to go on? We can agree to disagree on that, on when it’s warranted, on whether I should ever do it, whatever.

                                     

                                    As for the last word, again, I’ll give you the same offer as David. Hit me with your best shot, Adam. I sense you’ve had one building up for a long time. Unless you or someone else asks me to reply to it, I will indeed let you have the last word, standing on my record as my defense against whatever you may feel compelled to assert.

                                     

                                    /charlie

                                    • 15. Re: Installing on Eclipse 4.2
                                      varidoc.admin

                                      I just created a drinking game around the number of times "things in previous posts were put into quotes". Any of you guys know how I can get CF10 + CFB 2.0.1 (FlashBuilder plug-in) + MAMP PRO working on my Mac? Thx.