13 Replies Latest reply on Aug 16, 2012 12:20 AM by Dvico

    Monitor advice2

    Dvico Level 1

      Dear All!

      Im also thinking about to replace my Samsung syncmaster T240 to a dual IPS monitor.Mostly I use for PP and AE , one for preview window (+ web browsing) other for editing interface. I looked around and found this choises,

      What do you think which is better ??

       

      - Asus PA238Q  ( 190Euro/pc without VAT ) or

      - Dell U2312HM (  144Euro/pc without VAT ).

       

      Im not so experienced in calibration.Thanks for your advice!

        • 1. Re: Monitor advice2
          VHC-CO-IT Level 1

          No matter who you get, almost all screens in all monitors are made by Samsung or LG so brand only matters if they put cheap buttons and a cheap frame around it Samsung does sell some budget line screens that they'd never, ever use in their own monitors though so you do have to watch out for typical users of them like AOC.  Dell monitors are real hit or miss so I'd go with the ASUS if those are the only choices.

           

          The good news is, with HDMI there's very little calibration.  I'd turn on enhanced black if the monitor has that available feature and the colors are typically perfect from the get go.  I do think that price is a little nuts.  If you don't need it to swivel and stuff, there are cheaper 23" monitors out there.  These days, HDMI and LED backlit and 1920x1080 or larger, and viewing angle are the big 4 features you want to look for.  Response time is sort of important but mostly if you're a super picky gamer and if you get a 120Hz-capable refresh monitor but run it at 60Hz, it will in most cases get rid of the old frames from the screen faster, resulting in practically zero blur or ghosting under any circumstances.  Modern monitors tend to not have huge problems with that regardless though.  One I was previously looking at for a customer is the #1 highest rated ASUS monitor on all of newegg (in the $100-200 category), winner of the customer choice award, and 23.6" with all the right specs for a mere $159.

          http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236052

           

          It has a bit worse contrast ratio on paper but they BS those anyway.  For that first one you mentioned to get that high of a contrast ratio, it'd have to have pixels made out of black holes, lol.

          • 2. Re: Monitor advice2
            Dvico Level 1

            Thanks!But base ony your opinion, means I can buy a same picture quality panel with almost half price?In that case why IPS panels?

            • 3. Re: Monitor advice2
              dan_public2 Level 1

              Dvico,

               

              Those monitors VHC-CO-IT is promoting have TN panels. OK for kids playing games, but NOT suitable for photo or video editing.

               

              Regards,

               

              Dan.

               

              [Personal comments deleted]

              • 4. Re: Monitor advice2
                Harm Millaard Level 7

                The good news is, with HDMI there's very little calibration.

                 

                Incorrect. The connection has nothing to do with the need for calibration.

                • 5. Re: Monitor advice2
                  RjL190365 Level 4

                  Dan is correct. TN panels are seriously limited: They can display only 6 bits of color information (or 64 colors maximum) while video editing generally requires a minimum of 8-bit color (256 colors). The color limitations of TN panels make them suitable only for cuts-only editing if used in a video editing system.

                   

                  That said, all of my LCD panels so far have been TN panels. But then again, I don't do any color balancing or color corrections whatsoever in my work.

                  • 6. Re: Monitor advice2
                    Dvico Level 1

                    Thanks for all.So back to my post, What would you chose from this to type?

                    Heres a comparison table :

                    http://computer-monitors.findthebest.com/compare/645-740/Dell-UltraSharp-U2312HM-vs-ASUS-P A238Q

                    Im persuadable.Im not stick with hdmi, or design.I would chose Dell, cause the price, if there is no big difference.Or if you can offer a 3rd choise please let me know.

                    Thanks.

                    • 7. Re: Monitor advice2
                      dan_public2 Level 1

                      RjL,

                       

                      It sounds like you've made a wise choice based on a solid understanding of available monitors, the benefits and costs of each, and how they fit your needs and workflow.   That's the best that anyone can do.

                       

                      For my photo/video work, I chose an NEC PA271BW with color calibration puck: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/689880-REG/NEC_PA271W_BK_SV_MultiSync_PA271W_BK_SV_2 7_Widescreen.html.  It's pricey, but fits my needs.   Not counting my laptops, I also have one smaller IPS panel monitor and four TN paneled monitors.   Again, this overall combo fits my needs.  It's the best cost/benefit balance I can come up with.

                       

                      Best regards,

                       

                      Dan.

                      • 8. Re: Monitor advice2
                        dan_public2 Level 1

                        Dvico,

                         

                        I looked at that comparison of monitors.  There's one significant disconnect - it shows the Asus as having a TN panel.  According to the Asus site, it uses an IPS panel.  

                         

                        The problem is that it's difficult to buy monitors based on specs.  The image quality you see can differ greatly from the marketing hyperbole.   For example...  A few years ago, I bought a $600 HP monitor.  Great specs and reviews, but mediocre image quality and very fuzzy text.

                         

                        If it's possible where you're located, I'd suggest buying both of them, comparing them side by side, and returning the one you like least.

                         

                        Regards,

                         

                        Dan.

                        • 9. Re: Monitor advice2
                          VHC-CO-IT Level 1

                          I've actually seen in person both styles.  I saw extremely expensive, high end, top-rated TN panel monitor next to a very low end IPS panel monitor with a specific monitor test pattern of all colors generated via DirectX, not an image file,  over a high end HDMI splitter for fairness at a booth at a trade show.  There was very little difference between the color accuracy and overall image quality.  You can get a cheap TN screen for $90 from AOC and it's scary.  You can get a super cheap IPS monitor just because it has "IPS" on it and it's just as scary so unless you want to spend A LOT of money on an IPS monitor that's actually good, I stick with high end TNs. It seems Dan Clark understands exactly what I'm talking about given his example.

                           

                          The point of the booth at that show was you don't necessarily need an IPS monitor to get accurate colors.  Another major point that everyone seems to overlook is what exactly is the end user viewing the video going to be watching it on?  A DVD player?  Is it even HDMI?  Their home computer with a crappy $100 Dells creen?  No matter what, it's probably not an IPS monitor lol   Point thoroughly proven.

                           

                          P.S. I don't know how you can say HDMI doesn't have anything to do with calibration and color matching and general configuration when that's what some of the pins in the HDMI cable are specifically for.  They identify the device, read its ideal settings digitially, and tell your computer to match them.

                           

                          "They can display only 6 bits of color information (or 64 colors maximum)" <-- whaaaaaaaaaaat?  On what planet does that occur on? Rofl.  My TN monitor at home can display more than 64 colors, just FYI.  I've seen it do it!  Really, I have!

                          • 10. Re: Monitor advice2
                            dan_public2 Level 1

                            I OWN both kinds of monitors - four large TN monitors and two IPS monitors.   The IPS monitors have better color. 

                             

                            The NEC and Viewsonic IPS monitors have great color.  The calibrated NEC is especially nice. The three TN Samsungs have good to very good color and the TN Dell is mediocre.

                             

                            Dan.

                            • 11. Re: Monitor advice2
                              Jeff Bellune Level 6

                              Just a reminder to everyone participating in this thread to refrain from making disparaging personal comments about other users, especially if not responding directly to them.  Even then, keep the sarcasm and veiled insults out of it.

                               

                              I've cleaned up this thread a bit; if I have to do any more housekeeping, I'll lock it.

                               

                              Jeff

                              • 12. Re: Monitor advice2
                                ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

                                The specifications on monitors when looking for a Preview monitor that are important to most editors revolve around color range. When looking at the specifications at the manufacturer's site, the main ones to look for are as follows.

                                 

                                Examples below;

                                1. Color Saturation : 100%(sRGB) or  98%(Adobe RGB), 100%(sRGB), 102%(NTSC)

                                2. Color Adjustment : 6-axis adjustment(R,G,B,C,M,Y)

                                3. Video Preset Modes :Adobe RGB Mode/sRGB Mode

                                4. Display Colors : 1073.7M (10bit)

                                5. Brightness(Max) : 400 cd/㎡

                                6. Color Gamut: 100%

                                7. Processing: 12-bit Look-up Table

                                 

                                These core specifications decide the overall color range capability of the Panel with the monitor. What often confuses many looking to buy a Preview monitor are the reviews which really are deficiencies in factory calibration. This really does not mean the monitor cannot be used for color correction or editing work in general. It just means the client will have calibrate it out of the box for accurate use. To often clients wont buy a panel that actually has good color range because of comments on factory settings. Often the only real Technical differences between the Broadcast Pro Monitors and the better IPS monitors are factory firmware programming. Broadcast Monitors have features like built in Scopes, Multiview, and Factory calibrated color profile presets specific to the media content creation market. If the applications the editor uses have scopes or a hardware that does that then a editor can manually calibrate good IPS panels to have the same profiles. Those features however are why the Broadcast monitors are usually so much more than the standard IPS monitors and what you are paying for besides a connectivity option difference.

                                A workspace monitor is really based around what the editor is comfortable with real estate and esthetics to the eye. Often editors do not like the workspace monitor having different dimensions or color than the preview monitor so that is why they get the same IPS screens for both. Does not mean they need it. Just makes it easier for the editor to get the accurate color they want with their media.

                                 

                                BTW differences between 8 to 12 bit processing versus 6 to 8 bit addressing between TN and IPS panels is documented all over the web. You can reference article to start with here.

                                 

                                http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/articles/6bit_8bit.htm

                                 

                                Eric

                                ADK

                                • 13. Re: Monitor advice2
                                  Dvico Level 1

                                  Thanks for all for your helpfulness and your time to shared techn. info about monitors.

                                  Dan given a good idea, I'm trying to find a shop where I can test both type.Originally I dont wanted to goes deeper about monitors, but now maybe I spend some time to study the links what you recommended.

                                  Thanks again!