17 Replies Latest reply: Aug 21, 2012 3:05 PM by Stan Jones RSS

    Reduced DVD image size with HD to SD footage in Encore

    Dan 101 Community Member

      Using CS5, when I encode an SD sequence from Premiere to Encore, all works well.  When I downconvert an HD project through AME it looks fine and shows full screen in Encore, but when I burn a DVD and play it, I get a reduced size image in the center of the screen.

       

      I'm shooting 1080 24p with a Panasonic HPX170 camcorder.  I create Microsoft AVI files using On Location.

       

      I use a Matrox MXO2 Mini with Max display unit, so I'm using  these Premiere project settings: 

      Matrox HD

      1990x1080

      1080p@23.98fps

       

      I'm exporting the Premiere timeline using the recommended settings in the Jeff Bellune CS4 tutorial for converting Premiere HD footage to SD for DVD burning

       

      FORMAT: MPEG2-DVD

      PRESET NTSC 23.976p Widescreen High Quality

      VBR 2 PASS

      Maximum Render Quality

      Min bit rate 2.8 

      Target bit rate 7

      Max bit rate 8

      GOP SETTINGS  M frames 3  N frames12

      Audio 48 kh PCM 16 bits

      Multiplexer NONE

       

      When I render files and build a project with Encore, the timeline and menu image appears full screen in the Encore monitor.

       

      When I burn the project to DVD, it displays properly in letterbox on a standard def tv.

       

      But, when I play the DVD on an HDTV, I get a great looking picture in proper aspect ratio, but it displays at about 3/4 size in the center of the screen with black surrounding it.  I can change the display setting on the HDTV to 'Zoom" and fill the screen with the picture without distortion.

       

      I have the same issue creating footage at 1080i 60 fps and 1080p 30 fps and building projects with appropriate settings in Premiere and Encore.

       

      I'm wondering if I'm missing a setting in AME or Encore. I thought I'd followed Jeff Bellune's excellent instructions on HD to SD settings in AME to the letter.

       

      I'd like to create DVDs that will play full screen on HDTVs and in letterbox on standard def TVs without viewers having to change the settings on their HDTVs.

       

      FYI, I'm shooting in HD, partially to get really clean keys during the edit, using the Ultra keyer in Premiere. This works great.

       

      Thanks for any assistance.

        • 1. Re: Reduced DVD image size with HD to SD footage in Encore
          Jeff Bellune ACP

          It sounds like you have a 4:3 frame into which the 16:9 video has been placed.  So the letterboxing is part of the full-frame 4:3 image.  If you display this letterboxed 4:3 frame on a 16:9 TV, you'll get a display that is both letterboxed and pillarboxed -- which is what you're seeing.

           

          Go through the interpret footage dialog in Pr and in En, go though all of your sequence settings and your export settings in Pr, and make sure that the correct PAR is in use in all places.

           

          Also, set the Program Monitor in Pr, as well as the Monitor panel in En, to 100% instead of the default "Fit".  That may give you a hint as to where the PAR is getting set incorrectly.

           

          Jeff

          • 2. Re: Reduced DVD image size with HD to SD footage in Encore
            Dan 101 Community Member

            Thanks Jeff! I'll go through the settings you listed and check this out.

            • 3. Re: Reduced DVD image size with HD to SD footage in Encore
              Dan 101 Community Member

              Jeff,

               

              I went back and checked all the PAR settings and looked at the monitors in 100% mode.  Didn’t solve the problem, but here’s what I found.

               

              I’m using an avi film clip shot at 1080 24p on the Panasonic HPX170P.

               

              In CS5 Premiere, I checked the interpret footage setting on the clip.

              It read: Pixel Aspect Ratio: DVCPROHD(1.5)

              I right clicked the timeline to see its properties and saw: PAR 1.5.

              When I checked the monitor at 100% it zoomed in to a close-up of the middle of the image, compared to a full-screen image in “fit.”

               

              In AME, I used the settings from your Scaling HD to SD using CS4 tutorial and the 1080 24p option.

              When I changed the monitor view to 100% and switched back and forth between SOURCE and OUTPUT views, the SOURCE view was tightly zoomed into the center of the frame, and the OUTPUT view was slightly zoomed in, only losing a bit of the sides of the frame.  Unchecking "Aspect Ratio Correction" squeezed both source and output monitor images horizontally. I rechecked "Aspect Ratio Correction."

               

              I imported the encoded clip into Encore and checked its PAR.

              The PAR was set to “SQUARE 1.0”

              The 100% view in the monitor was just slightly zoomed in from the “fit” view.

              I tried changing the PAR on the clip in the project window to “Conform to:SD NTSC WIDESCREEN 1.2121.”

              This did not change the 100% monitor view.

              I saved the project and burned a DVD, but saw no change in the menu or clip size. Still small image centered.

               

              Next I changed the PAR on the clip in the Encore project window to: “Conform to Anamorphic 1.333.”

              This shrank the 100% view to show a letterbox view of the clip, showing the entire clip image.

              I saved the project and burned a DVD.  On the DVD, the menu appeared unchanged, still small and centered. The clip played in full 4:3 aspect ratio, not distorted, with the edges side cropped.

               

              Any other PAR settings I missed I should access and change?

               

              Any additional things for me to try?

              • 4. Re: Reduced DVD image size with HD to SD footage in Encore
                Dan 101 Community Member

                One other thing. Just noticed that the clip in Adobe is listed as 1280 x 1080.  Matrox offers settings at 1920 x 1080 and 1440 x 1080.  I'd been told to use the highest resolution settings, so I've been using 1920 x 1080.  Just wanted to mention this in case it's a factor.

                • 5. Re: Reduced DVD image size with HD to SD footage in Encore
                  Dan 101 Community Member

                  Just found that the sequence in Premiere was set to PAR 1.0.  Will reset to 1.5 and see if that fixes problem.

                  • 6. Re: Reduced DVD image size with HD to SD footage in Encore
                    Jeff Bellune ACP

                    Hi Dan,

                     

                    All good information.  Thanks.  Let us know how the reset to 1.5 works.

                     

                    Jeff

                    • 7. Re: Reduced DVD image size with HD to SD footage in Encore
                      Dan 101 Community Member

                      I created a new sequence in Premiere using the clip attributes, including PAR 1.5, then encoded another video and audio file for Encore.  The clip in Encore appeared with a PAR of Square 1 again.  Tried burning a DVD with the Square 1 setting, and again with the PAR setting changed to “Conform to:SD NTSC WIDESCREEN 1.2121.”  Still have the issue.

                      Any additional advice appreciated.

                      Thanks.

                      • 8. Re: Reduced DVD image size with HD to SD footage in Encore
                        Jeff Bellune ACP

                        When I checked the monitor at 100% it zoomed in to a close-up of the middle of the image, compared to a full-screen image in “fit.”

                        This is expected.  Setting the monitor to 100% removes any scaling that Pr does to make the big image fit in the little monitor.  Theoretically it shouldn't matter, but I want to eliminate as many variables as possible.  So, maximize the Program Monitor (the ` or ~ key) and use the scroll bars, if necessary, to examine the image from side to side and top to bottom.  Does it appear full frame and undistorted?  If not, then either your sequence settings are incorrect or Pr is not interpreting the footage correctly.

                        Just noticed that the clip in Adobe is listed as 1280 x 1080

                        If the PAR is set to 1.5, then that is correct for DVCProHD footage.  Your sequence must match -- make sure that it does.

                         

                        On export from Pr, you can safely choose the MPEG2 DVD preset for NTSC widescreen: 720x480 with a PAR of 1.2121.  You should get a full-screen, widescreen Output image, with thin black bars on the sides.  Crop the Source image by 12 -14 pixels top and bottom to get rid of the black bars.

                         

                        Jeff

                        • 9. Re: Reduced DVD image size with HD to SD footage in Encore
                          Dan 101 Community Member

                          Jeff,

                          Thanks for the input. I tried doing everything from scratch, using the Adobe project setting for DVCPROHD 1080p instead of the Matrox project setting, in case Matrox was the problem. I noticed that the Adobe DVCPRO setting creates an Adobe sequence in PAR 1.5, while the Matrox settings created a initial sequence for PAR 1.0.  So I didn't have to change the sequence PAR setting as I did with the Matrox setting. This mean I didn't have use of the Monitor the Matrox box feeds, but it was worth a test.

                           

                          I walked through the steps, including trimming 12 frames from the top and bottom of the frame in the source window of AME.  Imported to Encore and the clip was back to PAR Square 1.0.  Changed this to PAR Widescreen 1.2121 and burned the Encore project to DVD.  Still have the same issue.  I wonder if the problem might be Encore, as everything looks fine until the DVD is burned.  Think I should try uninstalling and reinstalling Encore?  Just as well it doesn't appear to be a Matrox problem, as I don't want to work without my monitor.

                           

                          Tis a puzzlement.

                          • 10. Re: Reduced DVD image size with HD to SD footage in Encore
                            Dan 101 Community Member

                            One last note, someone suggested I try the DVDs I've been creating in a Blu-Ray player.  I used one of the DVDs created with 1080 24p settings.  The DVD played full screen, as intended, in two different Blu-Ray players attached to HDTVs.  It played as intended in letterbox on a DVD player attached to a standard def TV.  Only DVD players attached to HDTVs display the program on the DVD in the smaller image surrounded by black. I've tried it on two different DVD players attached to HDTVs.

                            • 11. Re: Reduced DVD image size with HD to SD footage in Encore
                              Stan Jones MVP

                              I would check a) to make sure the DVD players are set to the 16:9 TV setting and b) that the TV is set correctly for the DVD output. These are unlikely to be upscaling players.

                              • 12. Re: Reduced DVD image size with HD to SD footage in Encore
                                Dan 101 Community Member

                                Good points.  I'd still like to find settings that will build a DVD that can be played by viewers who don't know how to change settings on DVD players or televisions.  I'd love my DVD disk to play the same way a commercial DVD disk plays a movie full-screen with no adjustments to the DVD player.  If that's not possible (or practical) when converting HD to SD footage and burning DVD's with Encore, the DVD with the settings Jeff supplied will be viewable on HDTVs -- and viewable full screen if the viewer knows how to use a remote to zoom the picture.   The settings I've got now produce a great picture on HDTV sets -- in a smaller image size, but still viewable.  I do wish this was a more simple process in Adobe Creative Suite.

                                • 13. Re: Reduced DVD image size with HD to SD footage in Encore
                                  Stan Jones MVP

                                  I'd still like to find settings that will build a DVD that can be played by viewers who don't know how to change settings on DVD players or televisions.  I'd love my DVD disk to play the same way a commercial DVD disk plays a movie full-screen with no adjustments to the DVD player.

                                  The commercial disk will also look wrong if the settings are wrong.

                                   

                                  That would be a test as to whether you have your disk built right: put a commercial disk (SD widescreen) into the same DVD player/HDTV combination you have and see what you get.

                                  • 14. Re: Reduced DVD image size with HD to SD footage in Encore
                                    Jeff Bellune ACP

                                    I'd still like to find settings that will build a DVD that can be played by viewers who don't know how to change settings on DVD players or televisions.  I'd love my DVD disk to play the same way a commercial DVD disk plays a movie full-screen with no adjustments to the DVD player.

                                    Not possible.  Even commercial/Hollywood discs are subject to being displayed incorrectly by users who can't or won't set up their players and televisions correctly.  For example, insert an anamorphic widescreen DVD into the DVD player and tell the DVD player that the TV is 4:3 (even though it's a 16:9 HDTV).  Then cycle the TV through all of its ratio settings; you'll see quite an array of distortions and image sizes, only one of which is the correct ratio and image size. 

                                     

                                    That said, if commercial discs display properly using whatever settings you currently have, then a properly authored widescreen DVD from En should display correctly as well.  That 2 BD players (which assume a 16:9 TV by default) displayed it correctly further indicates the settings on the DVD players are wrong.

                                     

                                    Jeff

                                    • 15. Re: Reduced DVD image size with HD to SD footage in Encore
                                      Dan 101 Community Member

                                      I went back and checked the DVD players connected to HDTV sets a commerical DVD movie.  Turns out with the converson settings I'm now using, I get the same results as the commercial movie disk.  The 4:3 letterbox setting displays them in proper aspect ratio on an HDTV, smaller in the middle of the screen.   I'd been looking for the full-screen image I've been getting from my Blu-Ray players. Viewers with DVD players will just have to use the HDTV zoom control to fill the screen, if they wish. 

                                       

                                      Thanks for helping me get the optimum settings.

                                      • 16. Re: Reduced DVD image size with HD to SD footage in Encore
                                        Dan 101 Community Member

                                        One more thing, I meant to say, they can set their DVD players and HDTVs both to 16:9, or use the zoom setting.

                                        Thanks.

                                        • 17. Re: Reduced DVD image size with HD to SD footage in Encore
                                          Stan Jones MVP

                                          Thanks for reporting on your test.