17 Replies Latest reply on Aug 21, 2012 2:49 PM by [Jongware]

    Flowing Text


      In flowing in text, I'd like to force the copy to start at the top of the next column/page regardless of whether there is a return between the paragraphs. If I were creating the copy I'd make sure to use "space after" instead of a return between paragraphs (or in this case directory listings) but unfortunately I am at the mercy of what my client has provided, namely a listing with two returns between. Can anyone think of a way to do this with either formatting or editing?

        • 1. Re: Flowing Text
          Jeffrey_Smith Most Valuable Participant

          I would remove the unnecessary returns by search for ^p^p and replace with ^p. Then add the appropriate space after to the style.

          1 person found this helpful
          • 2. Re: Flowing Text
            Ambrwd Level 1

            Unfortunately in this case it's a listing, and each of 5 to 10 lines of the listing also has a return, so adding space after the return would cause more problems than it would solve. But good idea!

            • 3. Re: Flowing Text
              Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

              Can you show us a screen shot?

              • 4. Re: Flowing Text
                Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                Sorry, more...


                This is most likely something that needs to be solved using Keep Options and proper style definitions.

                • 5. Re: Flowing Text
                  Ambrwd Level 1

                  Absolutely! Here's a two page spread with invisibles showing.

                  • 6. Re: Flowing Text
                    Ambrwd Level 1

                    I'm thinking that if I can do a find/change to catch the double returns and give them a format that keeps them with the previous line(s) and then set the text boxes to justified vertical spacing that might work, just not sure I can do all of that using find/change tool.

                    • 7. Re: Flowing Text
                      Ambrwd Level 1

                      This actually sort of worked. Here's a screen shot of what I did. There's still a few columns that need to be tweeked, but at least I haven't permanently altered the spacing/copy from the client. I'm always reluctant to do that because if I change something and it reflows I have to find all those odd spacing problems I've caused myself.


                      anyone have any better/additional ideas?

                      Screen shot 2012-08-21 at 11.46.26 AM.png

                      • 8. Re: Flowing Text
                        Jeffrey_Smith Most Valuable Participant

                        You are on the right track. Change to a single return ^p and change to a paragraph style that includes the space after. Also, from your screen shot, it looks like there are extraneous tabs to cleanup.

                        • 9. Re: Flowing Text
                          Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                          That might work,  but don't look for double retruns, look for \r\r+ in the GREP dialog since many of your listing also have a blank last line and \r\r+ means at two or more paragraph returns in a row. The problem, though is that using vertical justification in the frame is going to end up spreading all of the paragraphs apart. You don't get to pick and choose.


                          But all is not lost, I think. This is going to be a little complex because it's easier to deal with a constant number of lines when using a hard return between lines in a listing, but given the formatting in your screen shot I think this might work:


                          First, work on a copy of the file for safety, then


                          Find \r\r+ and change to \r to get rid of ALL the empty paragraphs between lisitngs.


                          Next because all but the first line in each listing starts with a tab we can use what I would normally call a mistake to convert the hard returns inside the listing to forced line breaks:


                          Find \r\t and change to \n\t which will only affect returns on lines preceding a new paragraph that starts with a tab, so each lisitng will become a single paragraph with forced line breaks.


                          Now comes the fun part. Define a paragraph style that both keeps all lines together and adds space after. If you need to format some lines differently than others, you should be able to accomplish that either using nested character styles or Line Styles as part of the paragraph definition.


                          This will not justify the text frame, but now you can do that if you  like, and if you set a large values for sapcing between paragraphs in the  justification options all of the space needed to be added should be  between the lisitngs.

                          • 10. Re: Flowing Text
                            Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                            If you want to remove the completely empty (other than tabs lines) I think you can do it by finding (again, in the GREP tab) ^\t+$ and replace with nothing. You'll have to do this BEFORE you run the other changes.

                            • 11. Re: Flowing Text
                              [Jongware] Most Valuable Participant

                              Yikes. Lots of things wrong with that image! (First off, are those real names and phone numbers?)


                              As Peter notes, the lines ending with empty tabs will cause you grief. Removing them will leave three empty returns, and those in turn must be removed. Then the first line after that should get the appropriate amount of Space Before.


                              Let's not use the regular Find and Replace but turn to GREP instead.


                              1. Remove superfluous tabs: find \t+$, replace with nothing, as Peter said.

                              2. Remove three returns. Actually, that's not safe. If there are only *two* returns somewhere, the next paragraph will get tacked on to the end of the previous one. A safer way is to replace *four* returns with only one: find \r{4}, replace with \r.

                              3. But if you do that, you won't have any blank lines left and so you won't know anymore to what line to add the Space Before!


                              Try this -- typing Off-line here, so be careful to Save before attempting :-)





                              Replace with:


                              AND in the Replace With formatting field, either set your desired Space Before immediately (3 times the leading value), or -- strongly advised -- just set a new paragraph style that has this Space Before amount defined in it.

                              ... It *should* work, but better make sure to Save Before Trying. (It's worth stressing that.)


                              (Or wait a bit while I start up my system and give it a go myself.)

                              • 12. Re: Flowing Text
                                Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                                You didn't like my method to change the hard returns to soft inside the listings?

                                • 13. Re: Flowing Text
                                  Ambrwd Level 1

                                  Wow, I walked away from my desk and you all just flew with it! Thanks so much. No, as far as you know these are not real listings (it was foolish of me to put it up and now I'm regretting it) please ignore my stupidity. There's a lot to absorb here but I'll give these solutions a try and see how they work.


                                  Thanks again all!

                                  • 14. Re: Flowing Text
                                    Ambrwd Level 1

                                    I don't suppose there's any way to remove the screen shot I put up is there? Crap, that was dumb.

                                    • 15. Re: Flowing Text
                                      Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                                      It's gone.

                                      • 16. Re: Flowing Text
                                        Ambrwd Level 1

                                        I just want to mention that yes, there are lots of things wrong with the copy I was provided. The point being that it was what I was provided. Learning how to work around the oddities of client copy has been one of the most challenging parts of my job as a graphic designer/production artist. And groups like this, with such a diversity of talent and experience are a great resource for odd problems. Thanks again!

                                        • 17. Re: Flowing Text
                                          [Jongware] Most Valuable Participant

                                          (Ah, re-traced this particular discussion. Off-thread Post deleted. (Gosh it's late...))


                                          I made a suggestion but was not able to verify it; now I did, and I think I found a flaw in my suggestion.


                                          So just to be sure:


                                          1. Search for this, in the GREP tab of Find




                                          2. Replace with this in the Change To text field




                                          3. .. and in the Change To formatting field, either the appropriate amount of Space Before (which, if I recall correctly, amounted to 3 times the current leading, as it appeared three pararaph returns should be removed)


                                          --or-- (and strongly advised)


                                          a paragraph style based on the plain text style in use, with the Space Before amount added to it.


                                          (The post above used "$1" in the Replace field, which is not what you want!)