18 Replies Latest reply on Aug 23, 2012 2:09 PM by Peter Spier

    Confused about content across spreads ID CS5

    hawke58

      hello:

       

      I am doing a 40-page document (10 x 4 page spreads) newspaper design and I'm confused about how to handle page content splitting across spreads and numbering. (InDesign CS5)

       

      The publisher wants me to design the layout in 'pull-out' spreads - each company has one or more 4-page spreads, which seems simple enough, but when the content has to flow across spreads, or even between the 'front side' of a spread and the 'back side' of the spread - I'm confused on how to know what page number to direct the reader to - i mean, how do i layout InDesign into 4-page spreads so i can visualize how everything flows? i can see two-page spreads easily enough...it would be nice to be able to flow the content between page 1/2/3/4 of a spread, but also know what final readers' page number we are looking at (for the TOC)...

       

      I think i'm overthinking this..i mean it's almost like I have to design a hybrid readers/printers spread kind of thing and that makes my life and the printers life more difficult lol

       

      thanks for any ideas!

       

      Ed

        • 1. Re: Confused about content across spreads ID CS5
          Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

          Ouch. Yes, you are being asked to design in Printer's speads, essentially, and it's going to be a big pain.

           

          You can make yourself a little chart by writing the numbers 1-20 down the page, then 21-40 next to them going up. That will tell you which pages share a spread when the document is imposed.

          1 person found this helpful
          • 2. Re: Confused about content across spreads ID CS5
            MikeGondek Adobe Community Professional & MVP

            Are you looking to view all your spreads together at once side by side, use pages flyout menu (uncheck - allow selected spreads to shuffle).

            Screen shot 2012-08-23 at 8.54.23 AM.pngScreen shot 2012-08-23 at 8.58.01 AM.png

             

            The pages will all be right master pahes, but you can do this temporarily if this helps you.

             

            If the confuson is because of your pull out spreads/page numbering/ making printer spreads, I would make a seperate InDesign document for each 4-page spread, and you could use the book feature to put this together.

            1 person found this helpful
            • 3. Re: Confused about content across spreads ID CS5
              hawke58 Level 1

              Thank you - that helps!

              • 4. Re: Confused about content across spreads ID CS5
                hawke58 Level 1

                hi :

                 

                another question for you

                 

                how do i number the spread sections automatically? some sort of section numbering?

                 

                for example, spread #1 - page 1, 2 - continued on page 39, 40 for example - is it possible to do this without having to manually number each spread?

                 

                PS - is this normal for printers to request layouts in printer spreads? i thought most preferred single-page layouts?

                 

                thanks!

                 

                Ed

                • 5. Re: Confused about content across spreads ID CS5
                  rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                  The publisher wants me to design the layout in 'pull-out' spreads...

                   

                  PS - is this normal for printers to request layouts in printer spreads?

                   

                  No. The imposition for a 40 page document running on an offset press will likely be more complex than simply arranging printer spreads. Are you dealing with the printer or a publisher?

                  • 6. Re: Confused about content across spreads ID CS5
                    hawke58 Level 1

                    hi - no i'm dealing with the publisher, i've just got a contact name at the printer though so i can ask them directly at least!

                    • 7. Re: Confused about content across spreads ID CS5
                      rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                      If the printing is offset the impostion probably isn't 2-up, so the chances of you imposing correctly in the layout are slim. This is what a sheet for an 8-up imposition might look like:

                       

                      Screen shot 2012-08-23 at 11.17.39 AM.png

                      • 9. Re: Confused about content across spreads ID CS5
                        hawke58 Level 1

                        I guess i'm really talking about pullouts - 4-page pullouts. i have a 40-page newspaper with 10x4 page pullouts. some contents goes across pullouts and i'm having a hard time seeing how it all fits together and flowing together and page numbering across pullout pages.

                         

                        how would i lay them out in inDesignCS5 and could I number them properly - i.e. - page 1 & 2 - flip side is pages 39 & 40?  i see the "horizontal" alignment, is there a way to do a "square" alignment or have two 2-page spreads attached at the "long" edge so that it's easier to see what's on a spread?

                         

                        thank you so much!

                        • 10. Re: Confused about content across spreads ID CS5
                          rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                          i have a 40-page newspaper with 10x4 page pullouts

                           

                          You mean a newspaper that isn't bound? Then you treat it like any other bound document, as facing pages, where page one is the cover and page 40 is the back. If content crosses the gutter in the interior it will be across facing pages, i.e 2-3, 4-5, 6-7 etc.

                           

                          So you provide the printer with facing single pages and they impose your doc and put page 2 and 3 where they belong on the press sheet(s):

                           

                          Screen shot 2012-08-23 at 1.04.49 PM.png

                          • 11. Re: Confused about content across spreads ID CS5
                            hawke58 Level 1

                            yes it's an unbound newspaper. so page 2-3 spread would continue the content to page 38-39, and i would leave the pages in that 'natural' order if you will, correct?

                             

                            is there a plugin or something that would help me to organize it for my purposes, and to put "to be continued on Page 38" at the bottom of page 3 for example, and on page 38 "continued from page 3"?

                             

                            it's just hard to see which pages are in the same 4-page spread, without going up and down the page layout panel and manually tagging it somehow.

                             

                            many thanks - very helpful information!

                            • 12. Re: Confused about content across spreads ID CS5
                              rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                              it's just hard to see which pages are in the same 4-page spread, without going up and down the page layout panel and manually tagging it somehow.

                               

                              For layout purposes it doesn't matter where a page is in the final imposition—if you want content to continue from page 3 there's no reason why it can't restart on any page.

                               

                              As a designer you work in reader spreads—you don't need to worry about the imposition or folding and gathering of the pages (printer spreads) at all. If a printer is asking you to take on imposition responsibility it's a problem.

                              1 person found this helpful
                              • 13. Re: Confused about content across spreads ID CS5
                                hawke58 Level 1

                                Thanks - i will push for answers from the printer - this is crazy lol. many thanks!

                                • 14. Re: Confused about content across spreads ID CS5
                                  Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                                  It's the "pullout" term you're using that has me confused here. I would normally think that a pullout is something like an advertising section or similar, and that you want the reader to be able to pull it out and discard the rest of the paper, so the section should be complete on a single sheet front and back. If that's the case, the easiest way to do it so that it works in both reader and printer spreads is to put it dead center inthe publication, using the center spread (in your case pages 20 and 21) and their reverses (19 and 22), if you need them, and so forth working outward from the center until you have enough pages.

                                   

                                  As Rob points out, the two column chart I suggested above presumes a single "section" in your newspaper, i.e. all of the pages are nested together in one bundle. If the paper has two sections of twenty pages each, you'd need two charts, one for 1-20 and another for 21-40.  Four sections of ten pages would be complicated since it would be using a two-page insert in each section someplace instead of a full spread, and I wouldn't attempt to guess where without talking to the printer. Also, if you are doing pullouts in the sense I mentioned above,  and your paper is built in sections, you can do one center pullout in each section (or any section, if you only need one) -- it doesn't have to be limited to the pages mentioned above which, again, are based on a single nested section.

                                  1 person found this helpful
                                  • 15. Re: Confused about content across spreads ID CS5
                                    hawke58 Level 1

                                    hi Peter:

                                     

                                    sorry yes it is an unbound paper that 'pulls out' into self-contained sections. there are 40 pages, and 8 pullouts.

                                     

                                    so essentially i have a pullout in the center of 4 pages, wrapped in another pullout of 8 pages, etc...and they are basically self-contained where possible.

                                     

                                    so it seems that i create the ID document as you suggest - essentially as it would look printed flat - and number the pages manually(?) to jump from, say, pullout Page 3, continuing onto back page 38 for example as the articles flow from pullout page to page, and sometimes across pullouts as well if necessary. its very confusing to work with and i was pulling my hair out trying to think through it.

                                     

                                    i ended up creating little scrap pieces of paper to mimic the final layout and hand-numbered them, then put the name of the section on their respective pullout pages (some have 4 pages/1 spread, some have 8 pages/2 spreads).

                                     

                                    i just wondered if there was a better way to do this with help to page number and connect "Pullout 1 spread A with continuation on Pullout 1 spread B..."

                                     

                                    sorry for the hassle! thank you

                                    • 16. Re: Confused about content across spreads ID CS5
                                      Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                                      I'm still not quite clear on how this is assembled. My daily paper arrives typically with 4 sections of about 16 pages each (world, metro, sports and magazine), but the local weekly will have one 48 page section.

                                       

                                      If stapled, the daily would be 4 booklets, stacked then folded in half; the weekly just one booklet.

                                       

                                      I don't know if it will help you, but ther are automated markers built into ID for jumplines, Next Page and Previous Page, that you'll find under Insert Special Character > Markers. The way they work is that if they are in a frame that touches a threaded story, the marker picks up the page number for the next or previous, repsectively, frame in the thread.

                                      • 17. Re: Confused about content across spreads ID CS5
                                        hawke58 Level 1

                                        Sorry for being unclear, it's 10 sections of one spread (4 pages ,front and back) inserted one inside each other.

                                         

                                        so spread 10 is the middle spread dead center.

                                        spread 9 wraps around spread 10, spread 8 wraps around spread 9, and so on until the cover page wraps around the whole thing.

                                         

                                        your idea for automated jumpline markers is an excellent one - thank you that will help!

                                        • 18. Re: Confused about content across spreads ID CS5
                                          Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                                          OK. The original 2-column chart will work, and you can use it to see which pages back up to each other, too -- they're consecutive pairs reading down the chart, so pages 1 & 40 are backed up to 2& 39, and so forth.