7 Replies Latest reply on Aug 31, 2012 11:59 AM by Peter Spier

    Keeping Paragraph Styles Separate

    Larry Spiegl

      Hi, I'm trying to format sub-headings to be included in my Table of

      Contents separately from the bullets that precede them in my document.

      That is, I want the sub-headings to have a different paragraph style than

      the bullets, so the bullets aren't included in the TOC. I can't use a hard

      return, as they belong on the same line in the document, but separate in

      the TOC.

      Will InDesign let me? I've tried inserting Discretionary Line Breaks,

      Ending Nested Styles, the Keep Option - trying to Keep the bullet with the

      previous paragraph, single-line composer, InCopy assignments, etc. and

      nothing works. Whatever paragraph style I make the subheading becomes the

      same with + to the bullet, or vice versa.This can't be that

      unusual/impossible, separating paragraph styles on the same line is it?

      Shouldn't be.

      Larry

       

        • 1. Re: Keeping Paragraph Styles Separate
          TerriStone Adobe Employee

          Larry, I'm going to move this question to one of the InDesign  forums so you're more likely to get answers.

          • 2. Re: Keeping Paragraph Styles Separate
            [Jongware] Most Valuable Participant

            Larry Spiegl wrote:

            [..] This can't be that unusual/impossible, separating paragraph styles on the same line is it?

             

             

            It is. The TOC works by gathering the paragraphs with the paragraph styles you specify, nothing in there looking for character styles or single line composer or any of the other things you tried. It's as straightforward as you can get (All Limitations Intended™).

             

            Three fairly often mentioned solutions are:

             

            1. Endure it. Generate your TOC and edit as desired. You need to do this every time you re-generate the TOC, of course.

             

            2. Fake it. Create a new paragraph style, but this time using a tiny font (0.1 pt, or something nearby), a 0 pt leading, and [None] Fill Color. Insert your TOC-to-be text as close to the original text you wanted to pick up (but you must make sure it cannot end up a page earlier) and apply this paragraph style.

             

            3. Post a Feature Request at https://www.adobe.com/cfusion/mmform/index.cfm?name=wishform and wait for Adobe to implement this in an easier way.

             

            I usually circumvent having to edit the TOC again and again by only generating it once, and replacing the "typed" page numbers with live cross references to the actual pages. A b**** bother to set up, but afterwards I can move text around at will and remove or add pages without having to generate the TOC, as the cross references are live.

            • 3. Re: Keeping Paragraph Styles Separate
              Larry Spiegl Level 1

              Hi Jongware,

              Thanks for such a fast and thorough reply.

              I do use your first suggestion, editting my TOCs, but thought there must

              be a better way. I can stop looking now, thanks.

              Larry

              • 4. Re: Keeping Paragraph Styles Separate
                peter minneapolis Level 4

                Hi, Larry:

                 

                I'm not clear on what you're asking, though it seems that other responders are quite clear.

                 

                Without a screen shot, I'm guessing, that your source document has bulleted main heading paragraphs followed by bulleted sub-heading paragraphs, and that you want to keep the bullets in the main heading TOC entries, and drop the bullets from the sub-heading TOC entries.

                 

                If this is indeed what you want to do, you can drop the bullet from a bulleted TOC entry for a bulleted source paragraph, by creating and specifying a non-bulleted paragraph style for the TOC process to apply to the generated sub-heading's TOC entry.

                 

                However, I'm a FrameMaker user, so I'm wondering if you're thinking of FrameMaker's "run-in" paragraph format property (AKA paragraph style in InDesign) that allows a paragraph to be followed by another paragraph on the same line; this permits a generated TOC to capture the desired source paragraph separately from others on the same line, which appears as if the TOC is grabbing part of a paragraph's line. ID lacks this run-in paragraph property. It's something you can request in the feature request form, mentioned elsewhere in this thread.

                 

                 

                HTH

                 

                 

                Regards,

                 

                 

                Peter

                _______________________

                Peter Gold

                KnowHow ProServices

                 

                 

                Larry Spiegl wrote:

                 

                Hi, I'm trying to format sub-headings to be included in my Table of

                Contents separately from the bullets that precede them in my document.

                That is, I want the sub-headings to have a different paragraph style than

                the bullets, so the bullets aren't included in the TOC. I can't use a hard

                return, as they belong on the same line in the document, but separate in

                the TOC.

                Will InDesign let me? I've tried inserting Discretionary Line Breaks,

                Ending Nested Styles, the Keep Option - trying to Keep the bullet with the

                previous paragraph, single-line composer, InCopy assignments, etc. and

                nothing works. Whatever paragraph style I make the subheading becomes the

                same with + to the bullet, or vice versa.This can't be that

                unusual/impossible, separating paragraph styles on the same line is it?

                Shouldn't be.

                Larry

                 

                • 5. Re: Keeping Paragraph Styles Separate
                  ArwenBecca

                  Hi Larry,

                   

                  I've had to do similar in the past. I was able to do this in Word and it's called a Style-Separator, and the shortcut keys are ALT+CTRL+ENTER (MS Word). However, I have yet to be able to do this easily in ID. However, I have found that I can sometimes "cheat" by applying a style in one paragraph, then the other style in the second paragraph, then go to the beginning of the 2nd style and do a backspace. For some reason, ID seems to hold the style and add a "+" for the override to the 2nd style, but not always. It definitely doesn't seem to work in the Edit screen, only in layout view. It's really manual, but seems to be possible.

                   

                  I'd side with Jongware that this would be a handy feature. While not often used, it would be beneficial for those who are heavy style users (I never use manual formatting in Word or ID).

                   

                  Good luck!

                  • 6. Re: Keeping Paragraph Styles Separate
                    Larry Spiegl Level 1

                    Hi Arwen,

                    Thanks for helping. I'll try that - formatting on different lines and

                    backspacing.

                    I find the simplest things in ID so frustratingly overcomplicated - or

                    impossible. Like it was designed by people who never wrote a thing in

                    their lives. But code.

                    Hey, maybe that's it!

                    Anyway, thanks again, and best of luck on your projects.

                    Larry

                    • 7. Re: Keeping Paragraph Styles Separate
                      Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                      TOC doesn't look for or operate on character styles, but it does preserve them, as long as they are not applied as a nested style of some sort. This is a common complaint, but one that might work in your favor. I normally have to tell users to figure out a way to use a nested style in their heading paragraph styles so the applied cahracter style is not preserved when a new paragraph style is assigned inside the TOC.