24 Replies Latest reply on Feb 28, 2008 12:45 PM by witha_y-YmWRx0

    Related topics display changes w/ Language setting

    TechDoc Jeanne Level 1
      Hi All,
      I set up a small project to test this and found a new bug - in the Help compiler I believe. I am creating related topics controls to show topic titles in a pop-up, but when I switch the language to German, all the related topics show in "Topics Found" dialogs instead.
      To reproduce:
      Create a project from scratch in EN, with 3 topics.
      Add a related topics button to topic 1 that references topics 2 and 3, using a graphical button and pop-up topic display.
      Generate HTML Help.
      View Result --> Check topic 1 --> Related topics button is ok and shows topic names in a pop-up as expected.
      Click File > Project Settings
      Change Language to German (Germany)
      Regenerate Help.
      View Result --> Check topic 1 --> Related topics button shows topic names in a "Topic found" dialog, which is not what was specified.
      I also moved this chm to a German system and looked at it there - same result (except "Topics Found" is in German of course.)
      In RH, you can then change the project setting for language back to English, regenerate, and get the pop-ups again.

      Anybody know how I can get related topics shown in a pop-up (not in Topics Found dialog) with project language set to German?

      I have 300+, Help topics, most using related topics controls that *used* to work.

      Danke!
        • 1. Re: Related topics display changes w/ Language setting
          Pete Lees Level 2
          Hi again,

          This is a long-time problem, caused by a mismatch between the language of the operating system and that of the help file. In fact, Microsoft says that the behaviour is by design. See:

          http://helpware.net/htmlhelp/hh_info.htm#HH13_Changes

          I think the key word in the quote from Shane McRoberts, Microsoft's then-head of Help development, is "exactly". The HTML Help engine checks the secondary language IDs (Switzerland, Germany) as well as the primary (German), and it defaults to showing the dialog box rather than the popup menu at the slightest hint of any mismatch.

          Setting the language of the help file to US English isn't as odd a workaround as it may first appear, because the function of the language setting is simply to determine the order in which index keywords, search results, and Related Topics links are sorted. For what it's worth, this is the only workaround that I've ever seen published.

          If the Related Topics links in your help file used to work as intended, it's likely that at that time you had pre-1.3 versions of the HTML Help viewer components installed on your machine; the problem only arose when Microsoft released the 1.3 components. That was a long time ago, though (2000).

          Pete
          • 2. Related topics display changes w/ Language setting
            TechDoc Jeanne Level 1
            Pete,

            Thanks for info. Again, not the answer I wanted to hear, but I will try the workaround.

            BTW These related topic links used to work when I generated the Help in RoboHelp X5.I imported the topics directly from an X5 project on another system. I am wondering then if over the years and several versions of RH I've used if the Help Compiler components were not updated when I upgraded to the next version of RH.

            And I am pondering the question: if this is a known bug with such an easy fix, why didn't Adobe (or Macromedia, or eHelp....) fix this by doing the same thing that I will have to do? The whole idea of RoboHelp is to "protect" us writers from the nuts and bolts of Help and give us the freedom to focus on the content.

            I'll try this fix and report back.

            Jeanne
            • 3. Re: Related topics display changes w/ Language setting
              TechDoc Jeanne Level 1
              More info:
              I inserted the line into the hhp file
              Language=0x409 English (United States) and re-compiled.
              Related topics still show as topics found on English system and on a German system (the OS is in German).
              The Help Viewer on the German system is in German.
              I would have expected these to show properly on the EN system since both the Help viewer and the file are EN.

              Then I tried inserting the line into the hhp file
              Language=0x407 German (Germany)
              and recompiled.
              Related topics still show as topics found on English system and on a German system (the OS is in German).
              I would have expected the related topics to show properly on the German system since this should have changed the language of the chm to German.

              Apparently, setting this Language parameter in the hhp file has no effect on the language value encoded into the chm that is generated.

              It would be instructional to see what the actual language of the chm is after compiling - when I set the project settings language to German in RoboHelp I end up with a chm that is apparenly *neither* English or German, regardeless of how I modify the hhp.

              I'll be back if I discover anything else on this.

              Jeanne
              • 4. Re: Related topics display changes w/ Language setting
                Pete Lees Level 2
                That's all a bit odd. Can you do the following?

                1) Verify that the Related Topics controls are still configured to display the target topics on a menu. If you view the HTML source of a topic that contains one of these controls, the control should look something like this:

                <object classid="clsid:adb880a6-d8ff-11cf-9377-00aa003b7a11">
                <param name="Command" value=" Related Topics, MENU">
                <param name="Button" value="Text:Click Here">
                <param name="Item1" value="Target Topic;topic2.htm">
                <param name="Flags" value="1">
                </object>

                where the "Related Topics, MENU" value is the crucial one as far as this issue is concerned.

                2) Post back with the complete contents of the OPTIONS section of your project (.hhp) file.

                3) Count the number of topics that you are making the targets of the Related Topics controls. Beyond about 19 or 20, the list of target topics is always displayed in a Topics Found dialog box, even if you've chosen to display them on a popup menu.

                Pete
                • 5. Re: Related topics display changes w/ Language setting
                  TechDoc Jeanne Level 1
                  Pete,
                  Thanks for pursuing this. Here's more info
                  I am producing a CHM and WebHelp from the same source.
                  Related topics do show up properly in the WebHelp (in a pop-up) but not in the CHM (show up as Topics Found on both EN and DE systems), so the html code is correct.
                  Also, when I preview the topics in RoboHelp (r-click and choose Preview Topic) the related topics show in pop-ups as desired.
                  None of the related topics has more than 6 topics listed, most have 3 or 4.

                  Here's the hhp file:

                  [OPTIONS]
                  Compiled File=MM72HelpDE.chm
                  Title=Mindjet MindManager 7 Hilfe
                  Contents File=MM72HelpDE.hhc
                  Index File=MM72HelpDE.hhk
                  Default topic=Welcome_to_MindManager.htm
                  Default Window=CS_Local
                  Language=0x407 German (Germany)
                  Error log file=
                  Display compile progress=No
                  Display compile notes=No
                  Full-text search=Yes
                  Binary Index=No
                  Auto Index=No
                  Enhanced decompilation=No
                  Binary TOC=No
                  Flat=No

                  [WINDOWS]
                  CS_Local="Mindjet MindManager 7 Hilfe","MM72HelpDE.hhc","MM72HelpDE.hhk","","Welcome_to_MindManager.htm",,,,,0x520,280,0x 304e,[268,10,1024,645],0x0,0x0,,1,0,0
                  Main_Local="Mindjet MindManager 7 Hilfe","MM72HelpDE.hhc","MM72HelpDE.hhk","","Welcome_to_MindManager.htm",,,,,0x520,280,0x 304e,[268,10,1024,645],0x0,0x0,,0,0,0

                  [FILES]
                  Trademarks.htm
                  New_from_existing_map.htm
                  New_from_my_favorite_templates.htm
                  Create_a_new_map.htm
                  Privacy_policy.htm
                  Help_resources.htm
                  ....... {the list of files continues - I removed them for brevity}
                  Work_with_Microsoft_Office.htm
                  rel_button.bmp
                  RoboHHRE.lng
                  tutorial_button.bmp

                  MM72HelpDE.glo
                  MM72HelpDE.brs
                  [ALIAS]
                  #include MM72HelpDE.ali

                  [MAP]
                  #include BSSCDefault.h

                  [TEXT POPUPS]
                  BSSCDefault.h

                  As you can see I have set the language to German in the OPTIONS section. Doing this I expected the related topics to show in a "Topics Found" window on an English system using the English Help Viewer because the language of the file and the system are different. But I expected them to show in a pop-up on the German system whose language is also set to German (Germany) and has a German operating system and Help Viewer.

                  I feel that I'm at the point of diminishing returns and that German Users will just have to live with the Topics Found display.

                  Thanks,
                  Jeanne



                  • 6. Re: Related topics display changes w/ Language setting
                    Pete Lees Level 2
                    Jeanne,

                    If you can PM me your email address (click my name at the left), I'll send you a small sample project in which the Related Topics links are working as you want.

                    Pete
                    • 7. Re: Related topics display changes w/ Language setting
                      witha_y-YmWRx0
                      Hello,

                      I'm one of two people in my company that uses RH, though the other person is merely a back up (in case I get hit by a bus on my way to work). Luckily, last week I was able to find information/patch here to fix the Generating issue I was suddenly experienceing (crashing when generating). NOW I am experiencing the same issue as posted here - my "Related Topics" show in preview mode but do not appear in my final chm output.

                      I inherited this (existing project) and I've been reformatting our entire manual to make it more user friendly - and clean it up cosmetically. Unfortunately I only recently utilized this function so I cannot verify if it ever worked properly. I consider myself in the embryo/beginning stage in the world of html, so please be "kind" when replying. Could you please suggest where I should begin to troubleshoot. I have 280 topics in my project.

                      Thanks,
                      Lynda

                      • 8. Re: Related topics display changes w/ Language setting
                        RoboColum(n) Level 5
                        Hi Lynda and welcome to the RH community.
                        Is there anything showing at all where the related topics link should be? Also can you tell us how you are adding the related topic link (e.g. a button, an image).
                        • 9. Re: Related topics display changes w/ Language setting
                          witha_y-YmWRx0 Level 1
                          Hi Colum,

                          I set them up using the TEXT option first. Then I tried the LABEL option, neither show in my chm file. I also tried switching from DIALOG to POP UP MENU options. Still nothing. I also checked my configuration of the Related Topics controls (as suggested by Pete Lees above). “MENU” is missing from my command value. I added it to one topic, generated, and viewed my results. Still nothing. Here’s the configuration. I noticed a slight difference in the ID, but I’m not versed in this well enough to know if the ID and TYPE values should be there.

                          Thanks for your help!!
                          • 10. Re: Related topics display changes w/ Language setting
                            witha_y-YmWRx0 Level 1
                            I forgot to include that I'm using RH 6
                            • 11. Re: Related topics display changes w/ Language setting
                              witha_y-YmWRx0 Level 1
                              Does the FRAME value showing as "blank" have anything to do with the problem???
                              • 12. Re: Related topics display changes w/ Language setting
                                RoboColum(n) Level 5
                                I was just about to mention this. The _Blank frame is used where you have set the Frame value to open the related topics link in a new window. Try setting this to "Default (None)".
                                • 13. Re: Related topics display changes w/ Language setting
                                  Pete Lees Level 2
                                  Hi,

                                  When you open the .chm file and look at the place in the help topic where the Related Topics link should be, do you see a square with a dot in it, or nothing at all? If the former, are the Related Topics links in other .chm files such as the Internet Explorer help also broken?

                                  For what it's worth, I don't see anything wrong with the Object element you posted, except maybe for the unnecessary Frame parameter. I was able to use the element without problem in a test help file.

                                  Pete
                                  • 14. Re: Related topics display changes w/ Language setting
                                    witha_y-YmWRx0 Level 1
                                    Hi Colum,

                                    No luck. I changed three files to Default None, generated, etc...and still nothing appears. I also tried going back into the three files and adding "MENU" to the Command value, still nothing.
                                    • 15. Re: Related topics display changes w/ Language setting
                                      witha_y-YmWRx0 Level 1
                                      Hi Pete,

                                      I see nothing it all. It's clean.
                                      • 16. Re: Related topics display changes w/ Language setting
                                        witha_y-YmWRx0 Level 1
                                        Sorry Pete, I didn't fully answer your question - my Related Topics work in other help files I've opened. In my .chm file, there is nothing appearing to indicate that something should be there.
                                        • 17. Re: Related topics display changes w/ Language setting
                                          Pete Lees Level 2
                                          Lynda,

                                          Is it possible that you're filtering out the Related Topics links by using build tags to conditionalize your content?

                                          Pete
                                          • 18. Re: Related topics display changes w/ Language setting
                                            witha_y-YmWRx0 Level 1
                                            I do have build tags on the header of every topic and a few placed elsewhere, but none are placed anywhere near the Related Topics.

                                            -L
                                            • 19. Related topics display changes w/ Language setting
                                              witha_y-YmWRx0 Level 1
                                              Just for kicks I just tried a "See Also" button and my results are the same. Nothing is showing in my .chm file.

                                              I also just created a small project with a few files and used the Related Topics function. My results are the same - the button does not show.

                                              -L
                                              • 20. Re: Related topics display changes w/ Language setting
                                                RoboColum(n) Level 5
                                                If you open RH own help file, do you see the related topic buttons they have? Just checking that it is nothing wrong in your PC setup.
                                                • 21. Re: Related topics display changes w/ Language setting
                                                  witha_y-YmWRx0 Level 1
                                                  Hi Colum,
                                                  Good morning. Yes, the RH help file works just fine, as do all my other programs I've checked.

                                                  -L
                                                  • 22. Re: Related topics display changes w/ Language setting
                                                    RoboColum(n) Level 5
                                                    Just checking that the project isn't located on a network drive?
                                                    • 23. Re: Related topics display changes w/ Language setting
                                                      Pete Lees Level 2
                                                      > Just checking that the project isn't located on a network drive?

                                                      Oh yes, of course...

                                                      "Certain Web sites and HTML Help features may not work after you install security update 896358 or security update 890175"
                                                      http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=892675

                                                      Quote: "Certain HTML Help features may not work when you open a .chm file from a remote location. For example, the Related Topics feature may not work."

                                                      The simplest solution is to move the .chm file to a local drive. Alternatively, you can make the registry changes described in the Microsoft article if you want to view remote .chm files.

                                                      Pete
                                                      • 24. Re: Related topics display changes w/ Language setting
                                                        witha_y-YmWRx0 Level 1
                                                        I work off a local drive but yes, I load the .chm file onto our network intranet drive (73 branches plus other departments need access to the manual). Looks like I won't be doing the happy dance today, but thank you so much for the help guys! You rock!!

                                                        Looks like I'm on to Plan B.
                                                        =)
                                                        Lynda