7 Replies Latest reply on Aug 25, 2012 8:08 PM by Rick Gerard

    Previous Puppet pin replaced by new pin?

    xcetra

      Hi,

       

      When I try to add Puppet pins to a mesh, the previously added pin gets replaced by the new pin I just placed.  For example, I add pin "A" to a mesh.  Then in a different location I add pin "B" to the mesh.  Often, pin "A" will disappear from its previous location and be where pin "B" is.  At this point, there is only one pin, pin "A" added to the mesh.  This can happen anytime during adding the pins.  I've had it happen after I've already placed 4-5 pins, or when I just place 2 pins.

       

      Why does this happen?  Is it a setting somewhere?  Eventually, if I click (to add a pin) in enough different places or create a new mesh, I can get the pins where I want.

       

      Here's my configuration:

      Mac OS 10.8 Mountain Lion

      After Effects CS6 11.0.1

      Macbook Pro 15", 2.4 GHz, mid 2010
      Footage: dpx frames

       

      Setup:  I'm adding pins to a pre-comp that uses a alpha track matte.  The track matte is just a solid layer with a mask.  Puppet setting is Expansion: 2, Triangles: 300.

       

      Regards,

       

      Jason

        • 1. Re: Previous Puppet pin replaced by new pin?
          Rick Gerard Adobe Community Professional & MVP

          Puppet Pins must be placed in an area that has pixels underneath. You can't place the pin in a transparent area.

           

          Every time you place a new pin and you should be able to see the new Puppet Pin with a number in the timeline. If they are disappearing and the numbers are out of order there's a foul up somewhere with a driver or conflicting software. Make sure that Open GL previews are turned off. Make sure that your Timeline looks like this:

           

          Screen Shot 2012-08-23 at 7.58.35 PM.png

          • 2. Re: Previous Puppet pin replaced by new pin?
            xcetra Level 1

            puppet_pins.pngThanks for the tips. You can't place a pin on transparent areas but can one be placed on semi-transparent areas? I often have a feathered matte and sometimes place pins on that (matte is a alpha track matte).

             

            I have noticed if I increase my triangles (300 to 1000) it helps prevent the previous pin disappearing problem I have.  Puppet is making my mesh the size of the entire footage since the puppet's matte is a track matte (not a pre-composed matted).

             

            Below is my setup.

             

            puppet2.png

            puppet_layout.png

            • 3. Re: Previous Puppet pin replaced by new pin?
              Rick Gerard Adobe Community Professional & MVP

              Your screenshot is so small I can't read anything. What are your comp settings? Do your pins disappear from the timeline? If the footage layer is huge and you're only going to be using a bit of it (under the gray layer) then I'd pre-compose and apply the Puppet Pin to the pre-comp. All of those triangles have to be calculated.

              • 4. Re: Previous Puppet pin replaced by new pin?
                xcetra Level 1

                Can you read the updated pictures (zoomed in)?  If you click on the pictures it will show a bigger version 

                 

                My comp size is 2880 x 1620 pixels.  The precomp that I am puppeting is a still frame.

                 

                I tried pre-composing the layer with matte then puppeting that pre-composed layer. Then the puppet tool creates a hard edge around the matte even though the matte is feathered.  I selected the "on transparency" option which helped a little but there's still a little hard edge showing.

                 

                Let me know if I need to put better images to help.

                 

                Jason

                • 5. Re: Previous Puppet pin replaced by new pin?
                  Rick Gerard Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                  Your screenshot with the time line and the comp window tells me more than the close up of the timeline. You also didn't say anything about whether or not the Puppet Pin tracks are disappearing from the timeline. IOW, if you click 9 times do you have 9 tracks?

                   

                  It looks like you're using the "neck FG" as a track matte for the "clean neck" layer you've applied Puppet Pin to. The track matte does not appear to cover the enitre layer because I see grid outside the gray area. I don't know what the gray is or whether or not you need any of the "clean neck" layer outside the mask.

                   

                  A better workflow would be to simply mask the clean neck layer before you apply puppet pin. This will greatly decrease the number of triangles required to get smooth edges, speed up the render, and simplify your project. No track matte should be required.

                   

                  Here's an example. Exactly the same mask is used but in the top example Puppet Pin was applied before the mask. In the bottom comp (comp 2) the mask was applied first.

                   

                  Screen Shot 2012-08-24 at 6.46.16 AM.png

                  • 6. Re: Previous Puppet pin replaced by new pin?
                    xcetra Level 1

                    Hi,

                     

                    Sometimes when I set a pin, the next pin set will be named the same as the previous pin but in the new location that I clicked.  For example, when the problem happens:

                     

                    1. I set "Puppet pin 1" in "location A".

                    2. I click to set another puppet pin in a different location, call it "location B".

                    3. "Puppet pin 1" is now set to "location B".  There is no "Puppet pin 2" created.  "Puppet pin 1" simply moved to where I wanted to put the second pin.  If I click another location, Puppet pin 1 will simply move to that new location.  So to answer your question, I can click 9 times and still just one puppet pin,

                     

                    Sometimes when I click on the mesh to add a pin, the mesh/image becomes distorted even though I'm in the default home keyframe (where there shouldn't be distortion).

                     

                    Yes, I'm using the "neck FG" as a track matte for the "clean neck" layer you've applied Puppet Pin to.

                     

                    >>I don't know what the gray is or whether or not you need any of the "clean neck" layer outside the mask.

                    The gray is the background which is alpha transparency.  I'm comping the "clean neck" layer onto a person where I need to distort the "clean neck" layer to follow the bends/movements of the person.

                     

                    >>A better workflow would be to simply mask the clean neck layer before you apply puppet pin.

                    I tried this (pre-composing "clean neck", and matting like your "comp 2").  So then I have my pre-composed "clean neck" layer with feathered edges.  When I apply a Puppet to that, the edges lose the feather and become hard edged.  I then set the puppet tool to "on transparency" which helped a little but not fully.  I couldn't find a way to re-create the look I had before (feathered edges) so I un-precomposed the "clean neck"

                     

                    This image is with the "clean neck" pre-composed with a matte.  No track matte.  "On Transparent" is enabled.  Notice the hard edges with some feather.  Gray is the bg color of the comp.

                    pre-comp.png

                     

                    Below is what I want the "clean neck" to look like.  Notice nice feathered edges.  The mesh's triangles are also a lot bigger than if I pre-composed.  For the below image, I was actually able to get all the pins where I wanted them. 

                    feathered.png

                     

                    Thanks for helping!

                     

                     

                    Jason

                    • 7. Re: Previous Puppet pin replaced by new pin?
                      Rick Gerard Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                      I would not bother pre-composing your longneck layer. Just use the pen tool to draw a mask. Then feather the mask. Then apply puppet pin.  Your hard edge problems should go away. You will get better results, the mesh will be tighter, and the odd behavior of the disappearing pins should go away. It's not a good practice to apply puppet pins to a huge layer when you are only using a small portion of that layer.