14 Replies Latest reply on Aug 28, 2012 6:53 AM by lasvideo

    Must I dump my iMac ?

    rrogertbb Level 1

      Hi chaps, I am wondering if there is any reason for me to not get rid of my iMac and go down the PC route as I cannot use my 2011 IMac with AE CS6s raytracer ... or are there any rumours re Adobe bending on GPU only or Apple going for cuda cards ... it seems crazy that I've shelled out for a spanking new machine only a few months ago (I cannot afford a MacPro) and Adobe's wonderful new CS6 and now cannot use them !

       

      Regards Roger

        • 1. Re: Must I dump my iMac ?
          Mylenium Most Valuable Participant

          Well, or you could get a 3D program? Seriously, I really can't understand on any level why you even would arrive at such a conclusion. Even if your Mac supported it, the speed and quality would be nothing to write home about. Or in other words: Simply buy Element, Shapeshifter or any of the Zaxwerks plug-ins and pretend that raytracing stuff doesn't exist. It's an easier way to achieve inner peace and get work done than getting all deriled over that raytracing crap.

           

          Mylenium

          • 2. Re: Must I dump my iMac ?
            lasvideo Level 4

            Honestly, raytracing in AE is still in its infancy. Myleniums program suggestions will give you faster and better looking 3D than ray tracing at this point. Zaxwerks Proanimator is spectacular for 3D text and logos. Element is amazing with 3D objects. They are in no way are substitutes for a real 3D program, but personally I find 3D a big PITA. 

            • 3. Re: Must I dump my iMac ?
              rrogertbb Level 1

              Thanks chaps, really good of you to get back to me.

               

              The project I'm working on is a simple VR set that I'm building, the client wants it made in After Effects so hence no 3d programme, I have Invigorator (at the moment it's not happy playing with my Mac so I'm awaiting Edward Wu a really great guy from Zaxwerks to get back to me after the weekend when he's had a chance to look at the crash log) but the client wanted to avoid plugins (though I could possibly pursuade him to buy Invig ... we'll have to see) but really my point wasn't how good or bad Raytrace is but why, when I have a reasonable work station (OK not ideal but my paid-for After Effects work is really not enough for me to shell out on a MacPro or even a new PC) and I have kept up-to-date by buying CS6 I cannot take advantage of a nice new feature in AE CS6 ?

               

              Over the last few months I've spent  a couple of £k upgrading my iMac and After Effects and they don't play together - do these companies not talk to each other does Apple not know or care that lots of their iMac users use CS6 and does Adobe not realise that a lot of their CS6 buyers work on iMacs ? ... OK I could spend forever blaming either Adobe or Apple but that aint going to solve my dilemma ... in fact without me spending yet more money it's unsolvable !

               

              Roger

               

              For fun here's a shot of the set:

               

              vr_set.jpg

              • 4. Re: Must I dump my iMac ?
                lasvideo Level 4

                Nice work. I wasnt aware your intent was to build a VR set. That is most definitely doable (as your fine work demonstrates).

                 

                I think the performance you get from software, especially CS6 is directly related to your machines ability . It runs like a dream on my HP Z820.

                 

                I just abandoned Apple becuase I dont think they have my best interests in mind (as an editor) and i HATE the lack of communication skills, which Adobe shines at.

                 

                I dont know how help this is to you, but its my 2 cents.  

                • 5. Re: Must I dump my iMac ?
                  Rick Gerard Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                  You can do every thing in the VR set example you posted without ray tracing . It just takes a little creativity. I was doing virtual sets in AE 5. Not CS5, but five, with reflections on the floors, with moving cameras, with lighting effects.

                   

                  If you add element, or invigerator, you can even do more. There's no reason to throw away your iMac  unless you really want to go down the PC route, search for compatible drivers, and still deal with incredibly slow ray traceing for complex scenes. If you really need retracing, try Blender. It's free, easy to use, and integrates very easily with AE.

                   

                  This post was mangled by my thumbs from my phone.

                  • 6. Re: Must I dump my iMac ?
                    Mylenium Most Valuable Participant

                    but really my point wasn't how good or bad Raytrace is but why, when I have a reasonable work station (OK not ideal but my paid-for After Effects work is really not enough for me to shell out on a MacPro or even a new PC) and I have kept up-to-date by buying CS6 I cannot take advantage of a nice new feature in AE CS6 ?

                     

                    Over the last few months I've spent  a couple of £k upgrading my iMac and After Effects and they don't play together - do these companies not talk to each other does Apple not know or care that lots of their iMac users use CS6 and does Adobe not realise that a lot of their CS6 buyers work on iMacs ?

                     

                     

                    Well, do you really want an honest answer to that? If so, you have to confront some ugly truths. Personally I think Apple long has stopped caring for a certain kind of user. I wouldn't necessarily call it just "professsionals", but clearly Apple think just because an iMac has a certain amount of juice under the hood, it must be good enough. That and of course OSX slowly turning into a desktop version of iOS and introducing its own incompatibilities and issues. As far as Adobe is concerned, they're simply going to broad. In proposing Premiere Pro (and thus all other video tools) to every mom and dad over Apples disaster with FCPX, those products have dangerously sunk into mainstream and ultimately we all get a dose of that bitter medicine - we end up with certain features because of their marketability, not because they actually make sense from a creative or technical POV. Not saying that 3D stuff or all sorts of footage acceleration cannot be useful, but not in this half-baked, bug-ridden form where it isn't even available to some users or we have to tell them to turn it off and ignore it to save their sanity. So alas, here we are again, having the 500th discussion on the matter just because Adobe bunked up CS6....

                     

                    Mylenium

                    • 7. Re: Must I dump my iMac ?
                      rrogertbb Level 1

                      Well the point of my post was to try and get my head around the dilemma and thank you, your contributions, Mylenium, Rick and 'Lasvideo', certainly helped enourmously ... after 30 years of using, supprting, recommending Macs I'm having to seriously consider another platform ... pity.

                       

                      Maybe as other people in other forums have said 'Raytrace' is maybe a little too early.

                       

                      Good of you all to take the time.

                       

                      Roger

                      • 8. Re: Must I dump my iMac ?
                        andy-mario Level 1

                        I'm in the same boat of roger, not for raytracing (which I do in c4d when needed), but for working in a smooth way mainly in AE/PS/AI (I also use Premiere, but I don't do anything intensive or complicated).

                         

                        CS5 used to work pretty well on my MBpro mid 2010 (with a lot of patience of course), but now with CS6 it became very slow and unresponsive, also when doing simple tasks. I mainly do 2d graphics, titles, basic 3d and I often use trapcode plugins.

                         

                        At this point, I decided to change my workstation but I'm struggling in this kind of limbo that Apple created without upgrading the Mac Pro line (they said 2013, but who knows).
                        Unfortunately at the moment I can't invest in a super high-end workstation like HPZ820(my price range is 2000/2500€) I'm looking to something better than my actual setup, not a "realtime monster". The options are:

                         

                        1) Stick with Apple:

                        - entry level mac pro 2012 (ram and hd upgrades over time)

                        - macbookpro retina

                        - top of line imac

                         

                        2) build a custom PC (withing my budget a shop proposed me a really powerful configuration compared with actual macs)

                         

                        3) wait!

                         

                        Also, I'm confused by all this NVidia/cuda - ATI/OpenCL thing.
                        Why Apple put ATI cards in imacs and mac pros when they are not in the Adobe supported cards list? That doesn't help!

                         

                        It's more than 10 years I'm on apple, but I grew up with windows so it's not a big deal for me to have a win7 workstation and keep Apple notebook for everthing else.
                        This is not a mac vs pc evaluation I'm doing, but a choice looking at perfomance and having an updated workstation with the latest tecnology inside that makes CS6 work smoothly (almost).

                         

                        I really look forward to hear your suggestions!

                         

                        thanks

                         

                        Andy

                        • 9. Re: Must I dump my iMac ?
                          rrogertbb Level 1

                          Well Andy ... I know nothing but I'm going to wait, a while, and then if Apple doesn't come up with a solution start looking at PCs ... sadly I will have to buy a new monitor as well as, it seems, I cannot use my iMac as a display (no video-in) ... Roger

                          • 10. Re: Must I dump my iMac ?
                            lasvideo Level 4

                            Andy, having just gone thru the same expereince, you might find my account interesting. If you read the article then the first several responses you can get an idea of how things worked out for me 

                             

                            http://magazine.creativecow.net/article/hello-pc-the-journey-to-mac-and-back

                            • 11. Re: Must I dump my iMac ?
                              rrogertbb Level 1

                              Excellent Tom ... a very good read.

                               

                              Roger

                              • 12. Re: Must I dump my iMac ?
                                lasvideo Level 4

                                Thank you Roger. Im glad you enjoyed it. The HP Z820 is a pleasure to work with. I retained my Mac Pro for email and online activity.

                                • 13. Re: Must I dump my iMac ?
                                  andy-mario Level 1

                                  Thanks Tom, your article made the point and confirmed what I was thinking, seems the PC at the moment is the way to go.
                                  Just an example: I got some offers for a i7 3770k (or 3930k for 200$ more) with 64gb ram, ssd 120gb + sata 1tb, gtx580 1.5 gb,  blu ray for under 2000€ (2500$).

                                   

                                  I know it's not a xeon but it looks like a great improvement and within my budget, on the other side it's nearly impossible today doing this looking at a Mac.

                                  (By the way, in some forums I read that i7 performed better than xeon for After Effects in single processing, I don't do a lot of 3d or ray tracing so I think an i7 will be enough for me.)

                                   

                                  In your article Walter wrote that IMac it's great for editors and AE heavy work: that stopped me for a moment, but then I realized a top of line (64mb ram, ssd, etc...) out iMac it's over 3500€...and not upgradeable!

                                  • 14. Re: Must I dump my iMac ?
                                    lasvideo Level 4

                                    Andy, it sounds like you are working with a great machine at a reasonable price. Im glad the article was helpful.

                                     

                                    I look on the Xeons as insurance. I can work with any format (from H.264 to Red / Epic) that a client brings me. An i7 will have limitations with large format media where the Xeons will handle them with ease.

                                     

                                    I think Walter was talking about having one "big iron" machine for heavy lifting jobs and and I7s to handle the normal stuff. In a facility with many bays it could cost an arm and a leg to switch to all Xeons.