23 Replies Latest reply on Apr 23, 2015 2:12 AM by MarkWeiss

    Premiere CS6 really slow pre-render.

    Half332

      This is really annoying.

       

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rU5AqTcvfqM

       

      I mean look at that speed.

       

      It is a 4 second clip.

       

      Does premiere suck this bad?

       

      I imported the same clip to Sony Vegas 11. and It had much better speeds at pre-rendering.

       

      Any Suggestions?

      Anything I could do to improve the speed.

       

      System:

       

      AMD 1090T 3.6 GHZ

      16 GB Ram

      HD 6950

        • 1. Re: Premiere CS6 really slow pre-render.
          John T Smith Adobe Community Professional & MVP

          Go to the CS5 Benchmark http://ppbm5.com/ and run the benchmark to see where your computer ranks

          • 2. Re: Premiere CS6 really slow pre-render.
            Jim Curtis Level 3

            How did you get those linked Ae comps into Vegas?

            • 3. Re: Premiere CS6 really slow pre-render.
              RjL190365 Level 4

              Here is the problem: AMD. You see, AMD CPUs such as your Phenom II X6 1100T lack full support for SSE 4.x - something that all recent Intel CPUs have. Second, you're using an AMD GPU, which cannot use MPE's GPU acceleration at all (at least not in the Windows version of Premiere Pro). As such, your system would be about 15 times or more slower than a fast Intel CPU-based system with a fast NVidia CUDA GPU. And no AMD system without a compatible CUDA card currently ranks higher than 712th out of the current 1000 systems in the PPBM5 results list. And even with a compatible CUDA GeForce GPU, your AMD CPU-based system would have barely entered the top half of that same PPBM5 results list.

              • 4. Re: Premiere CS6 really slow pre-render.
                Half332 Level 1

                The benchmarking takes too long.

                 

                My output file is blank for whatever reason.

                 

                Will there be a better optimization in the future for the AMD platforms?

                • 5. Re: Premiere CS6 really slow pre-render.
                  John T Smith Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                  >Will there be

                   

                  This is a user to user forum... and the few Adobe employees who read & post are not allowed to discuss future plans

                   

                  But... as a user... I seriously doubt that Adobe will take a step backward from the CPU firmware commands of Intel chips

                   

                  If you want something, tell Adobe at https://www.adobe.com/cfusion/mmform/index.cfm?name=wishform

                  • 6. Re: Premiere CS6 really slow pre-render.
                    Half332 Level 1

                    I just imported the same file (RAW) into sony vegas.

                     

                    And applied some colour correction to see how it perfroms.

                    • 7. Re: Premiere CS6 really slow pre-render.
                      czarek jb

                      Half332 wrote:

                       

                       

                      Will there be a better optimization in the future for the AMD platforms?

                       

                      If your motherboard supports AMD FX processors you can buy one - every FX supports SSE 4.x.

                      And from this Monday you have lower prices on them: http://www.cpu-world.com/news_2012/2012082701_AMD_launches_FX-4130_cuts_prices_of_desktop_ CPUs.html

                      I'd go for the 8120 model - it's OC-ing like the higher 8150, and the 8150 under heavy multitasking (e.g. x264 video coding) is on par with Intel's 2600K.

                       

                      In case of a GPU, just buy a GTX 550 Ti w/ min. 1GB GDDR5 VRAM - it's cheap but from the posts here it looks like it will be enough for CUDA acceleration.

                      • 8. Re: Premiere CS6 really slow pre-render.
                        Jeff Bellune Level 5

                        [Moved to Hardware Forum]

                        • 9. Re: Premiere CS6 really slow pre-render.
                          RjL190365 Level 4

                          If your motherboard supports AMD FX processors you can buy one - every FX supports SSE 4.x.

                          And from this Monday you have lower prices on them: http://www.cpu-world.com/news_2012/2012082701_AMD_launches_FX-4130_cut s_prices_of_desktop_CPUs.html

                          I'd go for the 8120 model - it's OC-ing like the higher 8150, and the 8150 under heavy multitasking (e.g. x264 video coding) is on par with Intel's 2600K.

                           

                          In case of a GPU, just buy a GTX 550 Ti w/ min. 1GB GDDR5 VRAM - it's cheap but from the posts here it looks like it will be enough for CUDA acceleration.

                           

                          Not quite true, I'm afraid: Based on the few results on the PPBM5 results list on the site, the fastest FX-based system is still slower than even the fastest of the older Phenom II X6-based systems, let alone Intel i5- or i7-based systems. You see, Premiere makes very good use of SSE 4.1 and SSE 4.2 instructions - something that the AMD CPUs either deliver relatively weak performance in (FX series) or don't support at all (Phenom/Athlon series). As a result of those deficiencies, the fastest FX-based system ranks only 505th out of the current 1,000 systems on the PPBM5 results list (the fastest Phenom II X6 isn't much better, ranking 442nd out of 1,000).

                           

                          And while the GTX 550 Ti may be balanced with those AMD CPUs in terms of CPU/GPU balance, it will bottleneck the faster and/or overclocked Intel i5 and especially i7 CPUs.

                           

                          So, when the fastest AMD CPU gets outperformed in Adobe Premiere Pro by even a modest i5, let alone an i7, you'll see why AMD CPUs are generally penny-wise and pound-foolish.

                          • 10. Re: Premiere CS6 really slow pre-render.
                            terri's fav

                            Quote from one of many reviews:

                             

                            If you have been eagerly anticipating Bulldozer for years, I am sorry that you are likely to be disappointed. For me, I just look at the numbers. And the numbers say that the FX 8150 and 8120 are not worth recommending.

                             

                            every FX supports SSE 4.x.

                             

                            Not the complete set and the rest is not implemented very well.

                             

                            the FX 8150 is ... on par with Intel's 2600K.

                             

                            The best i7-2600K ranks # 9, the best FX 8150 ranks # 505, almost 4 times slower.

                            • 11. Re: Premiere CS6 really slow pre-render.
                              RjL190365 Level 4

                              The best i7-2600K ranks # 9, the best FX 8150 ranks # 505, almost 4 times slower.

                              Not quite comparable due to the differences in the different versions of Premiere Pro represented on that list. The i7-2600K that ranked #9 was heavily overclocked and running CS5.0.3 while the FX-8150 that ranked #505 was also overclocked but running CS5.5. If I limit the results list to only those systems that run CS5.5 or CS6, the fastest i7-2600K system ranks #51 while the FX-8150 stll ranks #505.

                              • 12. Re: Premiere CS6 really slow pre-render.
                                Bill Gehrke Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                Half332 wrote:

                                 

                                The benchmarking takes too long.

                                 

                                There is your story in a nutshell.  I have not heard that about our PPBM before.

                                • 13. Re: Premiere CS6 really slow pre-render.
                                  czarek jb Level 1

                                  RjL190365 wrote:


                                  1. Based on the few results on the PPBM5 results list on the site, the fastest FX-based system is still slower than even the fastest of the older Phenom II X6-based systems, let alone Intel i5- or i7-based systems.

                                  2. Premiere makes very good use of SSE 4.1 and SSE 4.2 instructions - something that the AMD CPUs either deliver relatively weak performance in (FX series).


                                  3. And while the GTX 550 Ti may be balanced with those AMD CPUs in terms of CPU/GPU balance, it will bottleneck the faster and/or overclocked Intel i5 and especially i7 CPUs.

                                   

                                   

                                  1. This rank is a rank for a whole computer system - it does not depend on cpu only. We should consider ram, disks and gfxs also, plus Windows optimization.

                                  a) We don't know too much about these 8150 builds, so we can't say for sure they're optimized as they should be.

                                  b) Let's look statistically: 2 FX's against hundreds of 2500K and 2600K - too little of data to draw any valuable conclusion about FX's performance under Premiere Pro.

                                  c) Comparing different configs is like comparing apples and oranges The only correct test should be like this: 2600K PC vs. 8150 PC - both with the same hardware config, and with the same Windows tweaks. It would be nice to see such comparison, because only then we'll know for sure

                                   

                                  2. FX does not have weak SSE 4.x performance. Let's take y-cruncher, an application which is made to make a good use of any CPU and it's instructions, be it Intel or AMD.

                                  Now, there is x64 SSE4.1 build of this app, so everyone can test SSE4.1 capabilities of any CPU to the max - it's 100% CPU and MT.

                                  Someone tested 8150 vs 2600K with it. Result: head to head. The same situation as in heavy multithreading tasks like x264 video coding - 50% cheaper CPU is on par w/ 2600K. Period

                                   

                                  3. I've mentioned 550 Ti only because it is the cheapest CUDA solution for Premiere. And IMHO the OP would think about cheap upgrade - and FX would be good for him if his motherboard supports it. Especially, when now one can buy such CPU cheaper.

                                   

                                  That's all.

                                  • 14. Re: Premiere CS6 really slow pre-render.
                                    RjL190365 Level 4

                                    Actually, the tests that you mentioned do not include Adobe. I actually tested an FX system myself (I borrowed one from a friend), with the exact same disk, GPU and RAM configuration as my main i7-2600K rig. As these tests revealed, the FX-8150 system is actually about 1.5 times slower than an otherwise identically equipped i5-2400 system - and more than 2 times slower than the i7-2600K system with the exact same components besides the CPU and motherboard. (And the CPUs in all three systems are running at their stock frequencies.)

                                     

                                    And yes, I did run a GTX 550 Ti on my main rig. It was one of those cases where the performance is actually slower with GPU acceleration enabled than with software-only MPE.

                                     

                                    Therein lies the truth: Adobe and AMD just don't work together very nicely.

                                    • 15. Re: Premiere CS6 really slow pre-render.
                                      czarek jb Level 1

                                      terri\'s fav wrote:

                                       

                                      1. Quote from one of many reviews: ...

                                       

                                      2. Not the complete set and the rest is not implemented very well. 

                                       

                                      1. I was talking about using CPU for heavy MT tasks like x264 video coding - I was not talking about games or 1-threaded apps.

                                      This is from one of the reviews (and such conclusions about this, you'll find in many, many, many reviews):

                                       

                                      "[x264]: The second pass is more thread heavy, allowing the FX-8150 to flex its muscle and effectively tie the 2600K for first place."

                                      "[x264 AVX]: The FX-8150 is an x86 transcoding beast though, roughly equalling Intel's Core i7 2600K". - Transcoding beast, very nice

                                       

                                      Now, the best thing here is cost: 8150 is 50% cheaper than 2600K. For someone doing a lot of x264 codings, 8150 is BFTB.

                                       

                                      2. Every AMD FX supports fully SSE4.1, SSE4.2, AES, CLMUL, and AVX (plus others, but SSE4.x is what we are talking about):

                                      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulldozer_(microarchitecture)

                                      http://www.cpu-world.com/Glossary/S/SSE4.1.html

                                      • 16. Re: Premiere CS6 really slow pre-render.
                                        RjL190365 Level 4

                                        I'm sorry, but you forgot to factor in Adobe's interface. The x264 encoding tests that you referred to completely bypasses Adobe's apps. Thus, the comparisons are meaningless in terms of performance in Premiere Pro.

                                         

                                        And even if the H.264 performance in the PPBM5 tests between the FX-8150 and the i7-2600K were fairly comparable, the MPEG-2 DVD encoding performance is significantly slower with the FX-8150 than with the i7-2600K. But then again, the MPEG-2 DVD encoding tests involve downscaling 1080i HD to 480i SD, and the only FX-8150 result from a system equipped with a GTX 570 showed the performance in MPEG-2 HD-to-SD downconversion to be slower (even with the CPU overclocked to 3.9GHz) than from stock-speed i7-2600 systems with that same GPU.

                                        • 17. Re: Premiere CS6 really slow pre-render.
                                          czarek jb Level 1

                                          RjL190365 wrote:

                                           

                                          Actually, the tests that you mentioned do not include Adobe. I actually tested an FX system myself (I borrowed one from a friend), with the exact same disk, GPU and RAM configuration as my main i7-2600K rig. As these tests revealed, the FX-8150 system is actually about 1.5 times slower than an otherwise identically equipped i5-2400 system - and more than 2 times slower than the i7-2600K system with the exact same components besides the CPU and motherboard. (And the CPUs in all three systems are running at their stock frequencies.)

                                           

                                          And yes, I did run a GTX 550 Ti on my main rig. It was one of those cases where the performance is actually slower with GPU acceleration enabled than with software-only MPE.

                                           

                                          Therein lies the truth: Adobe and AMD just don't work together very nicely.

                                          I know someone from polish forum who was comparing FX against i7 in Adobe programs and he said what i'm saying - wherever is heavy multitasking, they're almost on the same level.

                                          But of course there are many lighter tasks and here i7 will be better. So, it depends - am I multitasking a lot or not? And let's don't forget about prices.

                                           

                                          550 Ti: Strange. Because I've seen many posts here saying it's quite good.

                                           

                                          More on AMD: We'll see on september new FX's with better performance, so, IMHO, the situation will be changing.

                                          • 18. Re: Premiere CS6 really slow pre-render.
                                            RjL190365 Level 4

                                            czarek jb wrote:


                                            550 Ti: Strange. Because I've seen many posts here saying it's quite good.

                                            It also depends on the CPU being used (as I tried to mention). After all, the 550 Ti is woefully inadequate for a high-end Intel build with an i7-3930K. But it would improve systems based on relatively slow, relatively low-end CPUs such as the AMD CPUs that you mentioned as well as some older or lower-end and lower-threaded Intel CPUs such as the i3 or Core 2 Quad.

                                             

                                            After all, if you have a really cheapo CPU, why waste money on anything above a 550 Ti?

                                            • 19. Re: Premiere CS6 really slow pre-render.
                                              czarek jb Level 1

                                              RjL190365 wrote:

                                               

                                              I'm sorry, but you forgot to factor in Adobe's interface. The x264 encoding tests that you referred to completely bypasses Adobe's apps. Thus, the comparisons are meaningless in terms of performance in Premiere Pro.

                                               

                                              I was just giving example of how well it's under heavy MT.

                                              But again I can say, that a comparison in PPBM5 between 2 Fx's and hundreds of Intels is meaningless because of different configs:

                                              The more FX's in the bench the clearer picture we'll have.

                                              But it's just my opinion.

                                               

                                              And I forget something (Adobe and AMD):

                                              I'm wondering if Adobe is using Intel Compiler? Because if yes than it's something which surely cut performance on non-Intel's CPU's.

                                              • 20. Re: Premiere CS6 really slow pre-render.
                                                RjL190365 Level 4

                                                czarek jb wrote:


                                                I'm wondering if Adobe is using Intel Compiler? Because if yes than it's something which surely cut performance on non-Intel's CPU's.

                                                Probably (although Adobe shall remain mum about it).

                                                • 21. Re: Premiere CS6 really slow pre-render.
                                                  czarek jb Level 1

                                                  Thanks, Rj!

                                                  Have a nice day

                                                  • 22. Re: Premiere CS6 really slow pre-render.
                                                    Bill Gehrke Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                    czarek jb wrote:

                                                     

                                                    I know someone from polish forum who was comparing FX against i7 in Adobe programs and he said what i'm saying - wherever is heavy multitasking, they're almost on the same level.

                                                    But of course there are many lighter tasks and here i7 will be better. So, it depends - am I multitasking a lot or not? And let's don't forget about prices.

                                                     

                                                    550 Ti: Strange. Because I've seen many posts here saying it's quite good.

                                                     

                                                    More on AMD: We'll see on september new FX's with better performance, so, IMHO, the situation will be changing.

                                                    Only you can tell us if you are multitasking.  That means using multiple programs running simultaneously.  It is a world differert than running Premiere which is very capable of running multithreaded.

                                                     

                                                    If you are do go for an nVidia card which can reduce your CPU usage tremendously do not think GTX 550 Ti weakling, it is less powerful than the very old GTX 285. Get something like the newer GTX 600 series because they are much more powerful with MPE, and are very power efficient, therefore quiteter and if you are using any effects or features that Adobe has converted to use the GPU it will speed things up immensely.   Following are the effects and/or features that are accelerated (I think this is a pretty complete/accurate list) :

                                                     

                                                    •     color space conversions •     Alpha Adjust •     Basic 3D •     Black & White •     Brightness & Contrast •     Color Balance (RGB) •     Color Pass •     Color Replace •     Crop •     Drop Shadow •     Extract •     Fast Color Corrector •     Feather Edges •     Gamma Correction •     Garbage Matte (4, 8, 16) •     Gaussian Blur •     Horizontal Flip •     Levels •     Luma Corrector •     Luma Curve •     Noise •     Proc Amp •     RGB Curves •     RGB Color Corrector •     Sharpen •     Three-way Color Corrector •     Timecode •     Tint •     Track Matte •     Ultra Keyer •     Video Limiter •     Vertical Flip •     Cross Dissolve •     Dip to Black •     Dip to White •     Film Dissolve •     Additive Dissolve •     Invert •     Directional Blur •     Fast Blur •     frame rate differences •     field order differences •     pixel aspect ratio differences •     frame size differences •     media with different alpha channel representations

                                                    • 23. Re: Premiere CS6 really slow pre-render.
                                                      MarkWeiss Level 1

                                                      Any idea which functions utilize SSE 4.1? I just upgraded from a Q6600 (no SSE 4.1) to a QX9650 (SSE 4.1), but rendering times are barely scaling with clock frequency increase of the new CPU. 4K video playback did improve immensely--no more dropped frames, so I'm suspecting the SSE 4.1 is used in MPE. But where else is it used where I'd be likely to see the benefits of the Core2 Extreme CPU?