9 Replies Latest reply on Sep 6, 2012 10:49 PM by ElJayBronx

    The Missing Clip Markers (not really, but they might as well be...) solutions? thoughts?

    ElJayBronx Level 1

      What fun! Adobe has a neat new way to put clip markers where I need them!!! (NOT!!!)

       

      The old clip markers are a thing of the past...SO how do I work with this client? I made videos of his show in the NY Fringe Festival. Five shows, two casts. Instead of an orchestra or piano, he used a very carefully designed and recorded electronic track. OPPORTUNITY!!! I can take the videos I made with my AVCHD camera (top-line Sony consumer model), slightly alter my priority doing video for second (and third) performance with a cast (getting more close-ups of principals in one shoot, for instance, and in the one instance I had a third shoot anything I missed or could add), and if I line up the electronc track I have a near-perfect fake "two-camera shoot". The singers are singing in real time but the lip sync problems are surprisingly minimal, especially when using the audio from the close-priority video.

       

      The problem: how to get the tracks lined up on a specific frame? The old method of applying clip markers from the timeline is GONE. Working with Adobe tech support I find that the NEW way is to add them by double-clicking the clip which brings them up in the Source Monitor. There, pressing "M" will add new markers all day. In fact, the markers are added at the clip level so that anywhere in the project that clip is present the marker shows up (mostly rather useless if not annoying or particularly debilitating). The old clip markers added at timeline level would only show up (with numbers attached - there are no numbers any more) in the timeline where the marker was added; since the lining up of clips is the main use of clip markers, that made a lot of sense...

       

      SOOO...what's wrong? I have my work-around, right? WRONG! Try syncing the playheads between timeline and source...doesn't happen. Use "GANG source and program"...they move in tandem but they don't sync, so no go. One has to make a marker in the source monitor, note where it landed on the timeline, and grab it (in the source monitor, you can't move these markers on the timeline) and move it until it lands on the timeline playhead. Does anyone have a better way to sync up clips? I don't have timecode (might be possible with Adobe-suggested workflow...but I have SERIOUS issues with that...) so I need to mark and sync the clips. I feel something good was taken away. I'm sure the snatcher thinks he's done me a favor and given me a great new way to do this...what is it, pray tell?

        • 1. Re: The Missing Clip Markers (not really, but they might as well be...) solutions? thoughts?
          Steven L. Gotz Level 5

          Perhaps I don't fully understand the problem, but it seems to me that you have an audio track that should allow you to sync all of the clips from one performance fairly easily in one sequence. Do that three times.

           

          Then use three sequences for a multicam edit.

           

          What am I missing? If the audio track is one long recording, you just match up the clip to the audio on the timeline and leave it there. No markers of any kind are required. Are they? You must have one long recording of audio, right? And if not, he should be able to provide you with one. No?

          • 2. Re: The Missing Clip Markers (not really, but they might as well be...) solutions? thoughts?
            ElJayBronx Level 1

            Sorry, Steven (and others...) the lateness of the hour etc. I put a lot of my intended reply to this in the following message:

             

            http://forums.adobe.com/message/4676990#4676990

             

            It's replying to a related issue.

             

            Here's the timeline. Note the multiple clip markers. They're now officially HELL to get in. AVCHD doesn't make timecode (well, I hear it DOES but no one knows how to extract it...note the names of my files which are made by an external program, they are the exact year/month/date/hour/minute/second at which the record button was pressed - if THAT'S in the metadata, tell me it can't make timecode...but that's for another post on ANOTHER night...)

            Partially finished timeline.JPG

            Anyway, the old method of inserting clip markers is gone, and the replacement is NOT fun. When I have to re-sync (for each clip - note that the green audio clip is one of the originals synced to the clip markers and used to enhance the audio in the finished product; there are lots of those and each one needs the clip to be cut, moved out and re-synced, because there's a variable length of dialogue between the musical numbers so it's NOT just one sync. Note that the timeline above shows three sets of markers - the second one being redundant and I should have gotten rid of it - and the green inserted sequence was synced separately before being exported to YouTube.

             

            The current workflow: place the timeline somewhere in the Source Monitor and type M, a marker appears...generally in the wrong place in the timeline. Drag it in Source Monitor until it's in the right place in the timeline. Pray a lot.

            • 3. Re: The Missing Clip Markers (not really, but they might as well be...) solutions? thoughts?
              Jim_Simon Level 8

              Try syncing the playheads between timeline and source.

               

              When in the sequence, target the track the clip is on, then instead of double-clicking to open it in the Source Monitor, hit the F key.

               

               

              I feel something good was taken away.

               

              It was.  Please let them know.

               

              https://www.adobe.com/cfusion/mmform/index.cfm?name=wishform

               

               

              Finally, there is a keyboard shortcut to add clip markers while in the sequence, it's just not set by default.  But you can go into the keybaord shortcuts and search for Clip Marker commands and set one up yourself.

              • 4. Re: The Missing Clip Markers (not really, but they might as well be...) solutions? thoughts?
                ElJayBronx Level 1

                Jim, thanks so much. The "buried" commands keep being elusive (and I'm training my fingers to hit "Ctl-Alt-Shift-M" which I stole for Mark Clip from Clear All Markers which  I'm less likely to use). I did go into the wish form and express that this should not have been removed from the Clip and/or Marker menu.

                 

                The really helpful one (Adobe TS couldn't find this one yesterday) was the F key shortcut. Pressing F M essentially solves the problem for me...it would be nice if it were more easily available. It's kind of like coming into a restaurant and finding out that there's a secret "extra" menu (there often is, actually...)

                • 5. Re: The Missing Clip Markers (not really, but they might as well be...) solutions? thoughts?
                  Steven L. Gotz Level 5

                  The secret menu at "In 'n Out" is the best!

                   

                  Something about the look of your sequence bothers me. Wouldn't it be easier to have one completely uncut audio track as a reference point all the way through? Or is it down below where we can't see it?

                  1 person found this helpful
                  • 6. Re: The Missing Clip Markers (not really, but they might as well be...) solutions? thoughts?
                    ElJayBronx Level 1

                    "In 'n Out" hasn't deigned to enter the NY market...oh well. I understand it's great.

                     

                    The one completely audio sequence would be great if people sang like computers Unfortunately, singers make mistakes and/or just sound better on one number one day than on the next, so there's a bit of mix & match going on; also in some places the sound guy didn't put the audio track high enough and the client wants to "goose" it a bit by adding in some of the original (originally midi, now MP3) audio.

                     

                    ALSO - the musical numbers will match exactly but the spoken dialog won't. As I mention below, there are multiple MP3s that run the show, each fired by a sound man on a specific onstage cue. As a result each number has to be trimmed out and re-synced. EACH song will match its MP3 exactly but the whole timeline won't. I know, I know...there may be trouble somewhere down the line. So far it actually LOOKS pretty good, though. I'm about 23 minutes into the 2 hour timeline.

                     

                    Take a look at the YouTube clip of "Easy as..." and you'll see how it works:

                     

                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgpI3aVfIgk&feature=plcp

                     

                    There are a few associated clips around that one (including the February workshop which I also did the video for, but no monkey business with multi clips on that one). It's possible, if you know what's going on, to find some inconsistencies (blonde dancer has her hair different one night than the other; lip sync isn't perfect etc.) but the effect does satisfy the client and it's a really good exercise in editing

                     

                    BTW - I can't use the MP3 as reference because there are many (like 30) MP3s associated with the show, fired up on cue by a sound man backstage - RUNNING IT FROM AN IPOD. That's "fringe theater" for you (it was part of NY Fringe Festival - the show has to be able to enter and clear the theater in FIFTEEN MINUTES per move, there is about 45 min between shows in the same theater etc.)

                    • 7. Re: The Missing Clip Markers (not really, but they might as well be...) solutions? thoughts?
                      Jim_Simon Level 8

                      I did this once, on my first stage performance gig.

                       

                      Only once, though.  Faux-multicam is a HUGE pain.

                      • 8. Re: The Missing Clip Markers (not really, but they might as well be...) solutions? thoughts?
                        Steven L. Gotz Level 5

                        OK, I get it.

                         

                        So I guess you start by lining up all 30 MP3s on every track. It is reasonably easy, if time consuming, to do that. The problem then becomes where to make the cuts. Before the MP3, or after. Or both. My guess is both. 

                        That means the real editing comes in between the songs.

                         

                        If you left a little extra room on the timeline before and after each song, it would probably be fairly easy to close it all up tight after you decided which video track to use at each point along the line.

                         

                        I can see why you want to use the markers, I am still not sure if it is really necessary.

                         

                        All I can say is "good luck to you". Lots of work. I hope it is a labor of love, or money, and not obligation.

                        • 9. Re: The Missing Clip Markers (not really, but they might as well be...) solutions? thoughts?
                          ElJayBronx Level 1

                          Actually, the LAST step is lining up the original MP3s. It's easier to get the audio lined up from common track clicks or pops, do ALL editing and then add in the original audio. I've done about 25 minutes of the 2 hour show so far and it's actually gotten a lot easier (especially when I discovered the "off-the menu" F shortcut...works from either composite video or the audio track displayed in the Source Monitor; F syncs the source monitor to the timeline and sends focus to the source, so a dual keystroke FM puts the marker exactly where it belongs! Making snap active causes the group of clip markers to sync automatically...and a lot more ground got covered today (than yesterday, the first day of this extravaganza).

                           

                          SO...I'm not as hot for the old-style marker clips; I just wish that the documentation and Tech Support was clearer on the hidden-gem F keystroke.

                           

                          Thanks to Steven, Jim and all who read this and tried to help!