39 Replies Latest reply on Nov 22, 2012 11:20 AM by UlfLaursen Branched from an earlier discussion.

    External Monitoring in CS6

    James Jaeger

      Harm, I don't know if you remember me as I haven't been here since Premiere Pro 6.0, but I just upgraded to CS3 and now CS6.  These Adobe forums are so over-produced I can't find the correct place to post this question so I hope you will forgive me.  How do you get Premiere Pro CS6 to output to an NTSC monitor.  I was outputting to this monitor under CS3 by using a Grass Valley conterter box coming out of the system firewire, but it doesn't seem to work under CS6. 

      Thanks, James

      jjaeger@mecfilms.com

      610-688-9212

        • 1. Re: CS6 Windows 7 Not Responding White Screen Issues
          Harm Millaard Level 7

          James,

           

          Of course I remember you, although I admit I can't exactly remember what we discussed at that time.

           

          Anyway, with CS6 it is a matter of setting the Preferences/Playback to Adobe DV, next to the regular monitors.

           

          12-9-2012 23-23-12.png

          • 2. Re: CS6 Windows 7 Not Responding White Screen Issues
            James Jaeger Level 1

            Thanks Harm.  That worked like a charm.

             

            I plan on getting a large 1080p digital TV soon for display.  Is there any way to hook that up to the CS6 video display without having to go through either a DV camera or a Canopus converter box? 

             

            James

            • 3. Re: CS6 Windows 7 Not Responding White Screen Issues
              Greg Baber Adobe Employee

              1080p TVs can usually be connected to most graphics card through a HDMI connector.  Then, the TV will act just like a second monitor (and you can specify that you want to use the second monitor for playback.)

              • 4. Re: CS6 Windows 7 Not Responding White Screen Issues
                James Jaeger Level 1

                Hi Greg,  Thanks for the input.  I am already running 3 - 27" ViewSonic monitors off a GeForce 660TI card. CS6 spreads out nicely across these monitors, however I also need to send just the PROGRAM MONITOR to an older external 52-inch TV.  Harm Millaard above suggested that I check "Adobe DV" in the Preferences/Playback and this worked but I can only fire up the external 52-inch TV by going out of the computer via firewire and into a standard DV camera and then out of the camera as composite video into a Grass Valley converter box and then out of the converter box to the external 52-inch TV via an S-video line.  When I simply connect a fire wire directly to the Grass Valley converter box and then out to the external 52-inch TV via the S-video - it doesn't work!  This is a mystery because everything worked fine with CS3.   Any ideas what's happening or would you suggest I simply toss the external 52-inch TV and get a new digital 1080p TV and go from there?  The 660TI video card has 2 DVI ports, an HDMI port and a Display port.  If I connect an external TV to the Display port (which is all I have left), will the TV show just the image on CS6's PROGRAM MONITOR?     

                • 5. Re: CS6 Windows 7 Not Responding White Screen Issues
                  Jon-M-Spear Level 4

                  Firewire output doesn't work with CUDA acceleration set to hardware - at least it didn't in CS5.5.

                   

                  A Blackmagic Intensity Pro will enable you to output to a 4th monitor independently of the 660.

                  • 6. Re: CS6 Windows 7 Not Responding White Screen Issues
                    Harm Millaard Level 7

                    Firewire output doesn't work with CUDA acceleration set to hardware - at least it didn't in CS5.5.

                     

                    Correct, but that has been solved with CS6.

                     

                    James, have you tried to connect the TV over HDMI direct to your 660? You may have to go to the nVidia control panel to get the settings right if the older TV has HDMI.

                    • 7. Re: CS6 Windows 7 Not Responding White Screen Issues
                      Jon-M-Spear Level 4

                      Thanks Harm, I didn't know that.

                      • 8. Re: CS6 Windows 7 Not Responding White Screen Issues
                        James Jaeger Level 1

                        Hi Jon, I don't know what CUDA ... means. 

                         

                        And is Blackmagic a converter box like the Grass Valley or is it a card like Matrox?

                        • 9. Re: CS6 Windows 7 Not Responding White Screen Issues
                          James Jaeger Level 1

                          Hi Harm.  No I haven't tried that yet.  Older TV has no HDMI. 

                           

                          The 660TI can handle up to 4 monitors and has four ports -- 2 DVIs, 1 HDMI and 1 Display.  One of the DVIs is an I and the other is a D.  When you plug in the monitors to the 660's ports (I have only plugged in 3 so far), the 660 senses the inputs and puts up a configuration menu.  The set up I have configured with the three monitors allows me to stretch an app across all three -- very useful with PPro as one can put the timetrack in the left monitor, the program monitor/clip bin in the center monitor and the effeects/audio panels in the right monitor.  Now all that needs to be done -- my current challenge -- is to send the program monitor alone out to a TV.  (At what point do we start calling TVs monitors and monitors TVs?!)  I am not so sure the 660 or nVidia control panel will allow one to do this because how are they to "know" WHAT or WHERE the PPro program monitor even IS.  Only PPro -- or some plug-in -- would "know" that, no?   If so, that puts the ball back into the Adobe court.

                           

                          James 

                          • 10. Re: CS6 Windows 7 Not Responding White Screen Issues
                            2020dan

                            I just installed CS6, but my NTSC monitor connection no longer works.

                            It's a firewire connection to a SONY cam, which sends a composite signal to an NTSC monitor. (Used to be real simple).

                            What do I have to do to make this work again? 

                            I think I read that firewire no longer works with CS6.  True?  If  not, do I need to simply replace it with a USB link?

                             

                            Dan

                            • 11. Re: CS6 Windows 7 Not Responding White Screen Issues
                              Harm Millaard Level 7
                              I think I read that firewire no longer works with CS6.  True?  If  not, do I need to simply replace it with a USB link?

                               

                              Incorrect. Firewire works great with CS6, no problem. USB will not work.

                              • 12. Re: External Monitoring in CS6
                                2020dan Level 1

                                OK, then I suppose I need to change a setting in CS6.  I went to the

                                preferences panel, and under playback.  But my SONY cam was not recognized,

                                nor my NTSC monitor, but I didn't expect that to show up because I assume

                                the system only sees the camcorder.

                                 

                                Dan

                                • 14. Re: External Monitoring in CS6
                                  2020dan Level 1

                                  Sorry, I'm not using Windows.  I've got a 2008 Mac Pro Intel running Snow

                                  Leopard.

                                   

                                  Dan

                                  • 15. Re: CS6 Windows 7 Not Responding White Screen Issues
                                    alvarogg19

                                    Hey!

                                    I'm looking for somtehing like that.

                                     

                                    I'm buying a new PC, and I'm not sure about which Video Graphic Card to buy.

                                    I know now that I'll need an Nvidia to optimize Premiere Pro processeses, but which one to buy?

                                     

                                    I've been working on three monitors: First and Second to spread Premiere, and the third one for showing me just the Program monitor. I've been using it in CS6 through Firewire but in SD of course... I'd like to update to CS6 and to be capable of seeing my third monitor in HD.

                                     

                                    Which of the Nvidia cards will do this to me? Will the 660ti work?

                                    The GTX680 is too expensive for me and I'm not sure about that either.

                                     

                                    I just need to know about something that works for me and i'm done.

                                     

                                    Thanks for your help.

                                    • 16. Re: CS6 Windows 7 Not Responding White Screen Issues
                                      Harm Millaard Level 7

                                      The 660 Ti will do fine.

                                       

                                      Monitor_setup_small.png

                                      • 17. Re: CS6 Windows 7 Not Responding White Screen Issues
                                        UlfLaursen Level 2

                                        Hi Harm

                                         

                                        Is that your setup of the "monster" with the 680 card?

                                         

                                        Can you tell me how your monitors are connected to whic output to the card - I am looking for something simmilar.

                                         

                                        Is the screen on top timeline output? over HDMI?

                                         

                                        Thanks

                                         

                                        Ulf

                                         

                                        Message was edited by: UlfLaursen

                                        • 18. Re: CS6 Windows 7 Not Responding White Screen Issues
                                          Harm Millaard Level 7

                                          Ulf,

                                           

                                          Yes, that is the configuration of the Monster, the two Samsung monitors connected to the DVI ports and the TV above it connected over HDMI. It shows the timeline or the source monitor if that is active.

                                          • 19. Re: CS6 Windows 7 Not Responding White Screen Issues
                                            UlfLaursen Level 2

                                            Nice, thanks Harm

                                             

                                            /Ulf

                                            • 20. Re: External Monitoring in CS6
                                              nullsebasvideo Level 1

                                              James, forget about the computer's graphics card for timeline monitoring. You should still get a good one to get accelerated effects, although you are very constrained in choices by the Mac, so eventually you might want to get a good PC where you can put any card you want.

                                               

                                              But for displaying video from the timeline on a TV set or broadcast monitor you need a dedicated card, of which the cheapest and worst you can buy is the Blackmagic Intensity Pro, which from my own experience I would advise you to stay away from because in this case cheap equals poor quality. A good choice that has worked well for me is the Matrox Mini MXO2 Max, which is a tiny card that connects to a breakout box that also has a processor to accelerate h.264 encoding. It has HDMI and component inputs and outputs, and it sends out a proper broadcast signal, unlike a graphic card which is intended for computer use and will treat the TV set as a computer monitor. This means that basically you will not be seeing the proper colors, and if you work with interlaced footage it's even worse, as it won't display the fields properly. Besides all this, it will stutter at random places. Those are among the reasons a dedicated monitoring card exists, and any professional editing workstation has one.

                                              • 21. Re: CS6 Windows 7 Not Responding White Screen Issues
                                                alvarogg19 Level 1

                                                Thanks Harm!

                                                 

                                                I had read before that Nvidia cards can't support more than 2 monitors, that's why I was not sure.

                                                 

                                                Is your PC setted up with a 660ti or a 680?

                                                • 23. Re: CS6 Windows 7 Not Responding White Screen Issues
                                                  alvarogg19 Level 1

                                                  Thanks. Now I understand why they call it "the monster"

                                                  • 24. Re: External Monitoring in CS6
                                                    Jeff Bellune Level 5

                                                    [moved to hardware forum]

                                                    • 25. Re: CS6 Windows 7 Not Responding White Screen Issues
                                                      James Jaeger Level 1

                                                      Hi Harm,

                                                       

                                                      I have now had a chance to familiarize myself with CS6 so here's a mini report.  It all works great!  Adobe did a nice job on CS6.  Stable, intuitive, everything seems to work well.  I have a few minor quibbles, but then I always do about everything.     I am using the Nvidia 660Ti card which supports 2 -DVI ports, 1- HDMI port and 1 video display port.  My sys is set up similar to what you have done in your picture in that I have plugged a Vewsonic monitor into each of the DVI ports and one into the HDMI port.  I have the display port left which I would ideally like to connect a 1080p TV to.  It looks like you have done this with your setup Harm.  Is this the case?  If so, did you get the program monitor out to your TV via the 660Ti or by some other method?

                                                       

                                                      At present the only way I have been able to get my program monitor out of CS6 to an NTSC TV is via my DV camera.  Specifically, I am porting out of the CS6 system by firewire and into the camera, and then out of the composit video on the camera to an NTSC TV.  The image quality is okay (480p), but I'm looking for 1080p HD.  

                                                       

                                                      James Jaeger

                                                      • 26. Re: External Monitoring in CS6
                                                        James Jaeger Level 1

                                                        Hi Sebasvideo, 

                                                         

                                                        I do have a PC and as I mentioned in my post to Harm, I also have the Nvidia 660Ti video card with 4 ports. It sounds like you don't advise trying to go out to a TV via this card but instead recommend a dedicated I/O card-break out box, such as the Matrox Mini MX02 Max.  I cked this out and it's about $600 or $700 dollars, lowest price on Amazon at $400 used.  I had one of Matrox's earlier I/O cards-breakout boxes previously (the DV-500) and had problems with it.  Also I note that some of the reviews on Amazon about the MX02 are not very good, also stating that Matrox's customer service is bad.  I tend to agree.  My experience with Matrox is their stuff is over-priced **** and they don't back it up with good customer service or returns.  AND they're not even IN the US.  But you also say the Black Magic card is ****.  So I put some of this back on Adobe:

                                                         

                                                        Adobe:  you're a multi-billion dollar corporation that has finally, after 10 - 15 generations, designed a very nice editing app, but getting the final product of this app, what us editors slave over, is still a bag of worms.  Use some of your clout and make this go away.

                                                         

                                                        James Jaeger 

                                                        • 27. Re: External Monitoring in CS6
                                                          UlfLaursen Level 2

                                                          Just for the record - as far as I remember the DV500 was a Pinnacle product and not Matrox :)

                                                           

                                                          Ulf

                                                          • 28. Re: CS6 Windows 7 Not Responding White Screen Issues
                                                            Harm Millaard Level 7

                                                            James,

                                                             

                                                            The leftmost monitor in the picture is the one connected to my 'Beast' with the GTX 480, the rest is connected to my 'Monster' with the 680. Hooking them up is simple, 2 x DVI and 1 x HDMI, set your playback options and you are ready to roll.

                                                             

                                                            If the need arises, I can also connect the topmost monitor, a LCD TV to the DV player, Panasonic NV-DV2000 on the lower right in the picture over Scart to the TV. The PC connection in that case is over FW.

                                                             

                                                            I cannot confirm Sebas statements, as I have never had those problems with interlaced footage on my system. I do know there are numerous questions and complaints from people using Matrox/BM cards and I never felt the need to try out Matrox again, having been bitten once before.

                                                            • 29. Re: External Monitoring in CS6
                                                              nullsebasvideo Level 1

                                                              James Jaeger wrote:

                                                               

                                                              Also I note that some of the reviews on Amazon about the MX02 are not very good, also stating that Matrox's customer service is bad.  I tend to agree.  My experience with Matrox is their stuff is over-priced **** and they don't back it up with good customer service or returns.  AND they're not even IN the US.  But you also say the Black Magic card is ****.  So I put some of this back on Adobe:

                                                               

                                                              Adobe:  you're a multi-billion dollar corporation that has finally, after 10 - 15 generations, designed a very nice editing app, but getting the final product of this app, what us editors slave over, is still a bag of worms.  Use some of your clout and make this go away.

                                                               

                                                              James, I can only tell you my experience with Matrox, with only two products, a graphics card from 2000 that was great, and the MXO2 Mini Max, which at least for me has worked great so far. I got one of those great deals B&H has once in a while and I got it for about $600. However, the same model without the Max is about $400 and still gives you perfect output to any HDMI or component monitor or TV set.

                                                               

                                                              In my over ten years of editing video, everything I've read and heard from professionals is that a dedicated timeline monitoring card is absolutely necessary, unless your only delivery is for web or local computer playback. There is absolutely no way that a computer graphics card will deliver the video signal that will tell you exactly what the final product is going to be once it's on the air, or on a Blu-ray, especially when it's interlaced. And this I saw for myself when I couldn't afford one of these cards and I had to use Vegas and Premiere with their full screen modes on my TV set, which acts as a second monitor. Any footage that was interlaced looked totally different as far as the motion goes, and the levels were off. Levels can be calibrated to a certain extent, with test patterns and with your own tests, recording a static scene where you have different levels of light, and especially a couple of items that you can barely see, to switch back and forth between the camera's input and the computer's input, but it won't be exactly the same. But there's nothing you can do about the interlaced footage, unless you never use such footage.

                                                               

                                                              As for what you say to Adobe, I fully agree. It can't be possible that Adobe tries to position Premiere as a professional NLE and many people still have problems with external monitoring cards. Before Premiere CS6 I was using Edius, which I stopped using for creative reasons, but there is no other NLE in the industry that is more reliable and fast. Grassvalley makes not only the software but the hardware, not the full workstation but the monitoring card. This ensures that both are absolutely compatible with each other. I used Edius for weeks without a single crash, and when it did it was usually because of some 3rd party plugin. The other very important thing is that Edius can do everything Premiere does when it comes to real time, but without the expensive CUDA card. In fact, Edius has much faster real time playback and scrubbing than Premiere, all by using just the CPU, which makes obvious that Adobe at some point made a deal with Nvidia, or maybe Grass Valley (formerly Canopus) has the smartest programmers in the world, because I see no other way that can be explained.

                                                              • 30. Re: External Monitoring in CS6
                                                                James Jaeger Level 1

                                                                Yes, Ulf, you are correct.  I had some other Matrox product and don't remember the numbers ... only the bad experiences.  To clear the record, the DV-500 by Pinnacle actually worked reasonabley well, although it was a little funky with Premiere 5.1c, which was state-of-the-art then.

                                                                 

                                                                James

                                                                • 31. Re: CS6 Windows 7 Not Responding White Screen Issues
                                                                  James Jaeger Level 1

                                                                  Thanks for the clarifications Harm. Looks like you have put together an ***-kicking system. 

                                                                   

                                                                  After some research, I have decided to go ahead and purchase the Black Magic Intensity Pro I/O Card w/ breakout cables.  Even though at least one poster here has warned about this card, it's only $189 with free shipping at BHPhoto.com.  This is worth the risk.  Besides, there are 201 reviews on this card and most of them are positive, some of them raves.  I will try to report back to this group my experiences with the card.  And if all works out, I will also try to post a photo of the new system I have built with specs.

                                                                   

                                                                  James Jaeger 

                                                                  • 32. Re: External Monitoring in CS6
                                                                    James Jaeger Level 1

                                                                     

                                                                     

                                                                    As I mentioned to Harm above, I have decided to try to Black Magic Intensity Pro.  It's only $189 and B&H says I can return it if there's a problem.  If I have to return it, I MAY spring for the Matrox.

                                                                    It sound like your technical needs for color correction, etc., are much more demanding than mine. The only reason I want to be able to put the program monitor out to a 60-inch TV screen is because that helps me visualize the final show.  I am currently producing political documentaries and they occasionally play in theateres so I like to get everything just right for that venue.     

                                                                    >As for what you say to Adobe, I fully agree. <snip>
                                                                    ... which makes obvious that Adobe at some point made a deal with Nvidia ...

                                                                    Yeah, I don't know what's going on.  ADOBE used to package Premiere with Pinnacle's DV-500 and things worked reasonably well. Where they made their mistake is Pinnacle should have designed just the hardware, and Adobe should have designed the SOFTWARE.  The way it worked was Premiere 5.1c invoked the DV-500 software as a plug-in when one wanted to I/O video. IMO, the third-party software never integrates as smoothly as it should/could.  What ADOBE should do is acquire all or part of a hardware company and have it build cost-effective cards that will work specifically for Premiere.  It's insane we still have an editing product with truncated I/O functionality 11 years after Stanley Kubrick postualted we would be on Jupiter.

                                                                    James Jaeger      


                                                                    • 33. Re: CS6 Windows 7 Not Responding White Screen Issues
                                                                      nullsebasvideo Level 1

                                                                      James Jaeger wrote:

                                                                       

                                                                      After some research, I have decided to go ahead and purchase the Black Magic Intensity Pro I/O Card w/ breakout cables.  Even though at least one poster here has warned about this card, it's only $189 with free shipping at BHPhoto.com.  This is worth the risk.  Besides, there are 201 reviews on this card and most of them are positive, some of them raves.  I will try to report back to this group my experiences with the card.  And if all works out, I will also try to post a photo of the new system I have built with specs. 

                                                                      James, the one thing you have to test for as soon as you connect the card and install the drivers is A/V sync, which was my main problem with it. This was with Premiere CS6 first release, I don't know if now things may have improved with further Premiere and driver releases, but as of then it was impossible to work with. Either audio or video was like one second behind the other, I can't remember which, but I had to stop playback and restart for it to sync. And this happened all the time. I checked online and several users were having the same problem, so that, added to a abysmal performance I had had in 2010 with that same card and Premiere CS5 made me have a really bad opinion of the brand. Once I bought the MXO2 Mini Max, I had no sync problems at all. Just make sure you test it thoroughly while you are still able to return it.

                                                                      • 34. Re: CS6 Windows 7 Not Responding White Screen Issues
                                                                        ECBowen Most Valuable Participant

                                                                        The Current Blackmagic drivers are not having the sync issue. Often times the AV sync is not an issue with the drivers but is caused by setting the audio in Premiere to Asio versus the WIndows audio. Premiere can sync the Video to audio when the audio device is in WDM mode but cannot when the audio device is in Asio. This is not an issue with the device or drivers but with Premiere's Asio support and has been for several versions.

                                                                         

                                                                        Eric

                                                                        ADK

                                                                        • 35. Re: CS6 Windows 7 Not Responding White Screen Issues
                                                                          alvarogg19 Level 1

                                                                          Thanks to all, and thanks to Harm,

                                                                           

                                                                          I finally bought the GTX680.

                                                                           

                                                                          I'll be trying and posting how it loooks like and how it works with 3 monitors.

                                                                          I'll try if Firewire issues are gone too in CS6 while monitoring on an external device.

                                                                           

                                                                          Thanks!

                                                                          • 36. Re: CS6 Windows 7 Not Responding White Screen Issues
                                                                            UlfLaursen Level 2

                                                                            I just ordered the 670 4gb ver. :)

                                                                             

                                                                            @ Harm

                                                                             

                                                                            Do you know it the most recent Nvidia drivers are safe to use with the GTX 6x0 cards on Win 7? I take it that I must upgrade from 6 month ol drivers on my 570.

                                                                             

                                                                            Thanks.

                                                                             

                                                                            Ulf

                                                                            • 37. Re: CS6 Windows 7 Not Responding White Screen Issues
                                                                              Harm Millaard Level 7

                                                                              Ulf,

                                                                               

                                                                              I have been using the 310.54 drivers both on my old machine with the GTX 480 and the new machine with the 680. I have not encountered any problem at all. Notice the old machine runs Win7 and the new one runs Win8.

                                                                              • 38. Re: CS6 Windows 7 Not Responding White Screen Issues
                                                                                James Jaeger Level 1

                                                                                Thanks Sebas.  I will keep an eye on the A/VA sync and note your advice.

                                                                                 

                                                                                James