9 Replies Latest reply: Sep 14, 2012 11:50 AM by Zane Jane RSS

    Widow/orphan problems in FM10

    Zane Jane Community Member
    Zane Jane Sep 13, 2012 3:32 PM

      I've just upgraded a number of documents from FM8 to FM10.

       

      My body paragraph style has the following paginationsettings:

      • Start: Anywhere
      • Keep with Next and Previous: Not selected
      • Widow/Orphan Lines: 2

       

      In FM8, these settings work as expected - there are a minimum of two lines of text if a paragraph breaks across a page boundary. A three-line paragaph is never broken. This behavior is the same in FM9.

       

      In FM10, I get single-line widows - a single line appearing at the top of a page. I have experimented and do not get single-line orphans - a single line at the bottom of a page.

       

      This behavior is not what I want - it changes my pagination and looks ugly.

       

      If I start a new paragraph after the widowed line, a second line pops up from the body paragraph on the previous page, which is the appearance I want. However, if I save and re-open the document, the second line has gone back to the previous page.

       

      I've tried using a clean template file, in case there was some invisible garbage in my document, but that made no difference.

       

      Has anyone else seen this behavior?

       

      If so, were you able to fix it?

       

      Thanks for your help.

      Jane

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        • 1. Re: Widow/orphan problems in FM10
          Error7103 Community Member
          Error7103 Sep 13, 2012 5:02 PM (in response to Zane Jane)

          What are the Keep With properties of the next paragraph?

           

          A Keep With Previous is usually what causes the problem for me.

           

          And make sure there are no hidden paras or conditionals between the widow and what you think is the next para.

          • 2. Re: Widow/orphan problems in FM10
            Zane Jane Community Member
            Zane Jane Sep 13, 2012 5:09 PM (in response to Error7103)

            Good suggestions, but neither of those is the problem.

             

            I should have said that the next paragraphs can be of the same body type as the one having the widow problem. So no Keep With properties set on the following paragraph either. And whatever those properties are, I think I shouldn't see a change between FM9 and FM10 and I should never see a single widow line at the top of a page.

            • 3. Re: Widow/orphan problems in FM10
              Arnis Gubins CommunityMVP
              Arnis Gubins Sep 13, 2012 9:30 PM (in response to Zane Jane)

              I just tested this on FM10.0.2 and it seems that something is acting up with inital widow/orphan settings. Try globally changing the w/o to 1 and then back to 2.

               

              In my test case, with the inital w/o 2 setting, the split for a three-line paragraph occurred. But when I toggled between the settings and when it went back to 2, then the three-liners stayed together as expected. Very odd behaviour.

              • 4. Re: Widow/orphan problems in FM10
                Zane Jane Community Member
                Zane Jane Sep 13, 2012 10:08 PM (in response to Arnis Gubins)

                Thanks for your suggestion. So plausible... But on my system, this was just another mirage.

                 

                I saved and closed the file and then re-opened it. That single line at the top of the page was right back there.

                 

                Try re-opening your fixed file - do you see the same thing?

                 

                The weird thing is that I was testing out a different file from the one I first tested and couldn't reproduce the w/o behavior at all. The page size and some of the paragraph styles are subtly different from the multiple other files in which I can reproduce the problem, but I can't change the templates for the doc set I'm having the trouble with. At least, not the page size and the fonts, which are where the differences lie.

                • 5. Re: Widow/orphan problems in FM10
                  Arnis Gubins CommunityMVP
                  Arnis Gubins Sep 14, 2012 8:14 AM (in response to Zane Jane)

                  I just tried recreating the same scenario in the test document in order to try the save, but  the w/o behaviour is now as expected. I couldn't even get the same split that I got last night in the exact same paragraph. Something really odd is going on with this.

                   

                  Have you rebooted your system in the meantime? Have you tried a MIF-wash on your documents? Can you recreate this behaviour in a test document using dummy text (like Lorem ipsum)?

                  • 6. Re: Widow/orphan problems in FM10
                    Zane Jane Community Member
                    Zane Jane Sep 14, 2012 10:42 AM (in response to Arnis Gubins)

                    OK, thanks for pushing! I've now completely characterized the issue. I think I can file a bug...

                     

                    I did a MIF-wash on my file and there was no effect on the problem.

                     

                    I got me some lorem ipsum and put it in a fresh template. The paragraphs worked. No three-line paragraph split!

                     

                    I imported the problem text from the other file and the problem still existed. I pasted three-line lorem ipsum paragraphs and text and they never split even in the places where my problem text split. So the problem was in my text... I removed index markers and conditional text markers. No change. I removed the cross-reference. Bingo! The problem went away!

                     

                    After more messing with xrefs and w/o settings, here is the final set of requirements to demonstrate the issue:

                     

                    Create a paragraph that is just one line too long to fit on the current page.

                    Put a cross-reference anywhere in any of the lines of text that should be pushed to the next page as a widow.

                    Save and close the file.

                    Re-open the file.

                    There is only one line of widow on the following page.

                    • 7. Re: Widow/orphan problems in FM10
                      Arnis Gubins CommunityMVP
                      Arnis Gubins Sep 14, 2012 11:07 AM (in response to Zane Jane)

                      Confirmed. This really is strange behaviour when re-opening a saved file.

                       

                      Please file a detailed bug report at:

                       

                      https://www.adobe.com/cfusion/mmform/index.cfm?name=wishform&product=63

                      • 8. Re: Widow/orphan problems in FM10
                        Arnis Gubins CommunityMVP
                        Arnis Gubins Sep 14, 2012 11:10 AM (in response to Arnis Gubins)

                        FWIW, this also happens in FM11.

                        • 9. Re: Widow/orphan problems in FM10
                          Zane Jane Community Member
                          Zane Jane Sep 14, 2012 11:50 AM (in response to Arnis Gubins)

                          Thanks for the link.

                           

                          Done!