12 Replies Latest reply on Sep 18, 2012 3:20 PM by Joel Cherney

    InDesign CS6 Newsletter multiple languages

    Ketrinz Level 1

      I have to create a newsletter in 5 different languages. Same layout but different languages. Can you give me some suggestions of the most efficient way to do this please. I am an advanced user.

        • 1. Re: InDesign CS6 Newsletter multiple languages
          Manish-Sharma Employee Moderator

          Best would be you can create a document in one language and then use it as the template for rest of the four.

           

          else create seperate layers in the same document for different languages , when you want the output , hide the rest of the layers except the one with proper language.

          1 person found this helpful
          • 2. Re: InDesign CS6 Newsletter multiple languages
            Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

            Our resident translation wonk, Joel, highly recommends keeping each version in a separate document. I've seen a lot of discussion from other users who use the individual language layers, and that's what I did myelf a few years ago on a project that had about 27 languages, but that was before some of the current capabilities in ID had been added.

             

            Some users suggest conditional text. I'm not a huge fan of this method, but that's a personal thing and I suspect it would have a lot to do with exactly what was getting translated. It seems more suited, to me, to things like changing the currency in a price sheet when the description can remain the same. The new thing that might be worth considering in CS6 is doing an alternate layout for each version, keeping them all in the same file. That would also allow you to adjust page size for regional norms.

            1 person found this helpful
            • 3. Re: InDesign CS6 Newsletter multiple languages
              Joel Cherney Adobe Community Professional & MVP

              After having seen a few well-produced slick design projects that contained many language versions in a single INDD, I've had to change my tune a bit. Sometimes it is extremely convenient to house all of your translated content in a single INDD, especially when you want to be able to e.g. update all financial data all at once for multiple language versions with a minimum number of clicks.

               

              However, if you expect to revise or re-purpose your translated content, I would still advise strongly against doing so. One of those well-produced slick multilingual projects had to be revised and re-purposed extensively, and the whole thing went over schedule and over budget because it was trapped in a single-doc format that prevented easy revision. To be brutally honest about it, it sent me on a very relaxing & frivolous vacation. So think carefully; my generic advice is "Don't use InDesign as a content management tool!" but for a one-off newsletter I can't see any harm, really.

               

              If you expect to do more than one newsletter, and you expect to get translatons submitted to you, I suggest you think hard about how you plan to get text out of and into your INDD. Things like InCopy, DocsFlow, or StoryTweaker might work quite well for you. I wish I could use StoryTweaker, but we use industrial-strength translation memory tools in our office (something I can't suggest to you unless you expect to be handling large amounts of translated content).

              1 person found this helpful
              • 4. Re: InDesign CS6 Newsletter multiple languages
                Ketrinz Level 1

                Thank you all. Another question that I have had raised from somebody else is the fact that I won't have the font, therefore all of the text will have to be outlines. Do you have any suggestions on this one please. I was hoping to at least reflow the text into my template, but this person was suggesting that I would have to create a pdf and have them edit it in Illustrator. This seems quite clumsy.

                • 5. Re: InDesign CS6 Newsletter multiple languages
                  Ketrinz Level 1

                  Thanks Joel. This will be a bi-monthly newsletter - but 5 translations other than English. I will ask the translators what software they have. It is pretty much a NFP assignment so purchasing the software is not really an option. But great advice. I don't want to do newsletter in Word.

                  • 6. Re: InDesign CS6 Newsletter multiple languages
                    Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                    Outlining fonts is NOT a good idea, and providing a PDF for editing in Illustrator is even worse. The only PDFs that can be reilably edited in Illy are the ones made in Illy.

                     

                    What languages are we talking about that require fonts that you won't have?

                    • 7. Re: InDesign CS6 Newsletter multiple languages
                      Joel Cherney Adobe Community Professional & MVP
                      Thank you all. Another question that I have had raised from somebody else is the fact that I won't have the font, therefore all of the text will have to be outlines. Do you have any suggestions on this one please. I was hoping to at least reflow the text into my template, but this person was suggesting that I would have to create a pdf and have them edit it in Illustrator. This seems quite clumsy.

                       

                      Are you saying that the translators will use fonts for their languages that you won't have? That is just about the worst translation workflow possible (unless your target languages are all really safe Western-European languages).

                       

                      It is pretty much a NFP assignment

                       

                      I can't say I'm familiar with that acronym, but guessing from the context: Are you saying you won't be paid for this work?

                       

                      Run, don't walk.

                       

                      Okay, maybe I'm hamming up a bit. But really, while it's possible to pull this off, it is (as Peter said) not a good idea, and you will most likely not be happy with the workflow, or the end product. The software that every translator is going to have is Word, and so you'd probably need to build a workflow that let you flow their Word files into your InDesign newsletter template, so you must have fonts that support the languages that the translators used. These needn't be the same fonts, FYI.

                       

                      Hopefully the translators have both Word and Acrobat, so you can get PDFs of their Word files to ensure that their translations are rendering correctly when you open those Word files, or place them into InDesign. What are your target languages?

                      • 8. Re: InDesign CS6 Newsletter multiple languages
                        Ketrinz Level 1

                        Thanks so much for replying Peter. The languages are Cambodian Vietnamese and Chinese (I haven't been told yet if Cantonese or Mandarin at this stage) It was giving my head an ouch to think I was stuck with outlined fonts. The job is for a not for profit organisation so purchasing fonts is not really an option. This is a completely new adventure with other languages. I remember in the old days having translated text for business cards but that was all cut and paste.

                        • 9. Re: InDesign CS6 Newsletter multiple languages
                          Ketrinz Level 1

                          Thank you Joel for replying - Not for profit means the organisation doesn't make a lot out of the job but I do get paid. I answered in Peter's post re the languages to be translated - I am the middle man - so I am asking the editor to ask the translators at this stage. As it gets closer I will ask my questions directly - but I want to be armed when I do speak.

                          • 10. Re: InDesign CS6 Newsletter multiple languages
                            Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                            The Creative Suite ships with a bunch of fonts for Chinese, Japanese, and Korean. I think Cambodian is a bit trickier, and I know nothing about Vietnamese, though I have a suspicion it might be supported in something like Arial Unicode.

                             

                            Paging Joel....

                            • 11. Re: InDesign CS6 Newsletter multiple languages
                              Ketrinz Level 1

                              Thanks Peter. I have used CS for years so I have quite a selection of their fonts. Thanks for that - I will be back when I get close to the translations. We are still mocking up and getting the English side done first - hopefully it will go without any hitches with the languages.

                              • 12. Re: InDesign CS6 Newsletter multiple languages
                                Joel Cherney Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                This is a completely new adventure with other languages.

                                 

                                Well, Vietnamese support is available in many fonts - no problem there, stuff that ships with the Creative Suite like Minion Pro and Myriad Pro will support Vietnamese. You also get some Chinese fonts (a limited selection), but frankly, it's hard to typeset Chinese. It's a culture with a tradition of literacy and calligraphy that is twice as old as Christianity. Its typographic rules are more complicated than ours; just as an example, they have more kinds of commas than does any Latin-script language. And if you set that type with an English-reading eye, you will make many mistakes. So, you stand a pretty good chance of embarassing yourself and alienating your readership if you dive in without doing some learning first; much of the Chinese-literate population is going to be more offended by poorly-set text than your average English-reading population. I spent years buying Chinese books and taking them to my translators, asking them "Hey, what the heck is this typographical convention?" in order to acquire the basics of how to format Chinese text correctly.

                                 

                                Cambodian, though... you are starting your adventure with one of the most complicated writing systems currently in use. It's so complicated that you can't even begin to typeset it in InDesign in contemporary fonts without using the World-Ready Composer. And there aren't spaces between the words, and no hyphenation is possible or permissibile, so you need either to be able to read the language in order to break the lines correctly, or to be able to prepare files for assignment in such a way as to be absolutely certain that the margin width used by your translator is exactly the same as the margin width in your target document. And your translator needs to know enough to use manual line breaks at the end of each line, or some convention that allows you to wrap the lines yourself without inducing errors.

                                 

                                This working method doesn't even account for text expansion. The total character count for the Cambodian translation will likely be 120% of that of the English, so one way to handle it would be to make Word files with the size of your text areas, tell your translator "Your translation must fit in this space, and we will take delivery in PDF only." Then you could color-correct the PDF in Acrobat (because it'll come out of Word as rich black, of course) and place that in your InDesign file. This is probably the only way to get it to render correctly.

                                 

                                Basically, unless you're willing to work with placed PDF files that you can't edit, it's over your head. Job it out. The Cambodian portion of your project, I mean. You can learn a hell of a lot about typesetting Chinese by posting lots of questions in forums and counting on helpful bilingual type-savvy people to teach you stuff for free. So you can almost certainly handle that without inducing significant errors that will prevent comprehension.  And it's remotely possible that you can build a workflow that will get you two-column Cambodian text that is not studded with errors, but at this stage I sadly would have to bet against.

                                 

                                Sorry, don't mean to be offensive or to demean your abilities. But this is what I do every day - I do complex-script DTP for a nonprofit translation firm, I specialize in the hard stuff like minority Central Asian languages and SE Asian languages - and I would advise against tackling Cambodian in your first multilingual design project.